I’m pulling for Shane in this one, as everyone said, Brock has been rocked by hard punches, and Shane hits pretty hard (ask Gonzaga), and their strengths mirror each other. I’m just afraid Brock will use one takedown move and try to beat Shane’s face in, like he did with Mir. Brock hsan’t fought anyone of Shane’s size and talent to date, specifically size.
Shane is a volunteer wrestling coach at the school I attend, and a friend of mine saw Shane at Chipotle last week. Said Shane is an absolute tank, and a nice guy too. Pulling for the local hero!
Lesnar wrestled DI with a combined Junior College and NCAA record of 106-5.
I’m thinking Lesnar has the better wrestling stats.
Lesnar has spend 12.5 minutes in the MMA ring and has fought ‘big names’ in Herring, Mir, Couture and Mir again. (Say what you want about Herring…he’s been around and beat Kongo)
Carwin has spent about the same in the ring…but against lesser opponents.
Lesnar wrestled DI with a combined Junior College and NCAA record of 106-5.
I’m thinking Lesnar has the better wrestling stats.
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I honestly think that Lesnar has the edge in wrestling as well. But comparing their collegiate wrestling doesn’t make a strong case for that. Read that Waterman article and you’ll see that he says the level of competition that they both faced in college was relatively the same. Carwin wrestled at 171 I believe in college and I’m sure most would agree that the level of athleticism and depth at that weight class is much higher on average than the heavyweight class.
True, Lesnar has faced a higher caliber of opponents overall. But, you can’t discount the fact that Carwin has never even been out of the first round. He’s finished everyone he’s fought in short order. It took Couture 3 rounds to finish Gonzaga, it took Carwin 1 minute.
But I’ll agree that one of Brock’s best chances of winning will be GNP.
Lesnar is a stud, No questioning that.
Lesnar is a freak, a big fast huge strong freak.
Lesnar is also likely to beat Carwins ass- how or how dominantly who knows.
Or maybe not??
Know lets be clear about all this wrestling talk.
Carwin won the D2 championship in 1999 at heavy weight runner up in 96,97
Lesnar was the runner up in D1 1999 and won in 2000 at heavy weight
Neither competed internationally- at all.
Carwin also was an all american football player at his D2 school, then went to become an engineer
I think his college choice- D2 school had more to do with his profession- wanting to be a mining engineer
then his athletic careers.
Lots of D2 athletes- dont go to D1 schools cause sometimes they want an different kind of education.
sometimes there is more to it.
Carwin wrestled at 171 I believe in college and I’m sure most would agree that the level of athleticism and depth at that weight class is much higher on average than the heavyweight class.
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171 is a high school weight class. I’m positive Carwin competed as a heavyweight in college since he was a football player (lineman or linebacker, not sure). Lesnar grew out of smaller weight classes as well.
Carwin wrestled at 171 I believe in college and I’m sure most would agree that the level of athleticism and depth at that weight class is much higher on average than the heavyweight class.
171 is a high school weight class. I’m positive Carwin competed as a heavyweight in college since he was a football player (lineman or linebacker, not sure). Lesnar grew out of smaller weight classes as well.[/quote]
That’s what Waterman says he wrestled at. That’s the source that I was citing. If he is wrong, then I stand corrected.
Carwin wrestled at 171 I believe in college and I’m sure most would agree that the level of athleticism and depth at that weight class is much higher on average than the heavyweight class.
171 is a high school weight class. I’m positive Carwin competed as a heavyweight in college since he was a football player (lineman or linebacker, not sure). Lesnar grew out of smaller weight classes as well.
That’s what Waterman says he wrestled at. That’s the source that I was citing. If he is wrong, then I stand corrected.[/quote]
In the article on Sherdog, he said he coached him as a high school wrestler.
If you read the article, you will see that one of the questions states that Waterman coached Carwin in high school. In his answer, Waterman said that Carwin wrestled at 171 at the time. It would be impossible for Carwin to wrestle 171 in college, as that is not a college weight class. It is also impossible because Carwin played Division II football, and you cannot be a successful college linebacker and potential NFL draft pick at 171-200 lbs. Also, if Carwin wrestled Neal in college, and Neal was a heavyweight who wrestled Lesnar for the championship, how could Carwin not be a heavyweight?
Guys, just read the article completely. It’s the very first question/response section.
If you read the article, you will see that one of the questions states that Waterman coached Carwin in high school. In his answer, Waterman said that Carwin wrestled at 171 at the time. It would be impossible for Carwin to wrestle 171 in college, as that is not a college weight class. It is also impossible because Carwin played Division II football, and you cannot be a successful college linebacker and potential NFL draft pick at 171-200 lbs. Also, if Carwin wrestled Neal in college, and Neal was a heavyweight who wrestled Lesnar for the championship, how could Carwin not be a heavyweight?
Guys, just read the article completely. It’s the very first question/response section.[/quote]
Yup, looks like I missed that. I stand corrected. My mistake.
I have to comment on this as well. This is about as old as the other favorite disses by the Lesnar haters. He was clearly fluster when he got hit in face? What does that even mean? Did he get knocked on his ass and end up on the ground with Gonzaga? Oh wait that was Carwin.
Well, actually neither has gotten knocked on their ass by a punch (at least in the UFC, and I’ve never seen any video footage of Carwin getting dropped in his earlier pre-UFC fights). Both have gotten rocked/stumbled by punches, the only difference is that Gonzaga capitalized on Carwin being rocked with a single leg that he used to take him down, while neither Randy nor Mir was able to capitalize on doing so to Brock.
touche
Also, Carwin had his nose broken by that punch from Gonzaga (for the first time ever in his career), Lesnar didn’t have his nose broken in either instance.
Advantage Brock - stronger nose
Valid points otherwise though.
looks like I didn’t do a very good job of making my point on that one. I was not trying to discredit Carwin. I was just trying demonstrate how silly the “doesn’t like to hit” argument is. He has been hit several times to little effect.
If Carwin hits anyone on the button its not going to matter if they enjoy the experience or not, they’re going down.
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There are relatively few people who actually like getting hit. Some say they do, but they’re generally speaking about glancing blows that let them know they’re in the fight - Forrest Griffin being one of those guys, I wonder what he’d say about the Anderson Silva fight and how enjoyable getting hit was during that one?
I actually like Lesnar being that I come from a wrestling background as well, but somehow you make me want him to lose.
I have to say this, Lesnar, to be honest, only has his speed and size. If you watch him, he isnt that great a wrestler. His technical abilities seem to be limited to transitions on the mat. I havent seen him attempt any submissions, all he does is drops those 2 inch hammer fists on your face. And you can say that he beat Mir’s face in, which it did look bad, but did you hear Mir after the fight? He said that brock doesnt even hit hard. He was laying there getting hammered and looking at the ref like, “I cant move, I cant defend myself, are you serious?” He is just big and lays on the fighter. Have you ever tried pushing 285 pounds off of you, which, BTW, is what he walked into the ring as against Mir? I have, and it aint easy. Carwin, now that man is the real deal. No fight has gone past 2:30 in the first round with him. He is undefeated and just came off a big win over Gonzaga.
Carwin was a 2 time NCAA II Heavy weight runner up and a NCAA II Heavy weight wrestling Champion. He is a quick thinker and never makes the same mistake twice. And he is extremely tough. Brock can take him down, no doubt, but can he keep him there? I dont think so. My reasoning is because carwin is stupid strong and he is, in my opinion, a better technical wrestler than Brock. Brock is big and strong, but he doesnt have the same speed and technical abilities of Carwin. This man could hang any day with lesnar in the weight room. I know this because their stats are damn near identical.
Mt prediction, carwin is gonna end this in his fashion. He is gonna let brock be agressive and make his mistake, then one hit later, the “Brock Stopper” will be champion. And then I feel sorry for whoever has to face him next.
End:Lesnar throws that big right, Carwin steps right, and catches him in the chin with a vicious right hook. Brock down for the count!
For illustrative purposes, here’s Brock’s straight right (notice how it has a lot of momentum behind it, sending Herring tumbling backwards across the mat, but not all that much impact, as he doesn’t seem too hurt by the punch):
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The fact that his lights weren’t turned out has more to do with the punch placement than any lack of power you may percieve. So far as I know Carwin hasn’t broken any bones in his opponents faces, like Brock did to Heath.
“Herring fought Brock Lesnar at UFC 87 after Mark Coleman was forced to withdraw due to a knee injury. The fight went the full 3 rounds and Lesnar was declared winner by unanimous decision. Herring was seen struggling with the larger, physically more dominant opponent, and was knocked down early in the first round with a straight right. According to Heath Herring’s official Facebook profile in a note titled “6 Months To Rest”, Herring is said to have suffered a broken orbital bone from the first punch of the fight and is expected to be out of action for six months”
Ron Waterman- “He [Lesnar] was one of the only guys Iâ??ve trained with that could take me down at will.”
I don’t believe Shane will be able to defend the take down, so he better have the moves needed to escape or I expect it will look a lot like what he did to Mir the second time around.
Being from Minnesota, I pull for Brock as the former Gopher and the home town favorite…but I like Shane too and I’m VERY excited for this fight no matter the outcome. Too bad we have to wait an extra 6 weeks though to find out.
