Wrestling or Judo for Law enforcement

Bigger Stronger Leaner
81

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
i’m kinda late to the party, but there’s some good advice here…

my background: 20 years military, 12 years in LE, trained in MT, boxing, wrestling, BJJ and Army Combatives.

-i rarely strike people at work. i’m pretty good at MT (way better than i am at grappling), but i’ve never kicked anyone at work. knees to the thigh are pretty common, though. open hand striking is good to learn, as well, since punches and elbows usually cut open the bad guy and gets him/her a ride to the hospital while you sit on him…

-i have no formal training in judo, but i’ve thrown people with several typical "judo’ throws, and landing on mats sucks. landing on concrete puts 'em out. i have never had to fight someone after i threw them…

-BJJ (either formal Gracie Combatives or sport BJJ) is worth learning. just because you don’t want to be in certain positions, doesn’t mean someone else won’t put you there. i work in the midwest, and we have a lot of good wrestlers here. i am not gonna beat the takedown every time…

-i think judo is worth training just once a week, if that’s all the time you got. make sure you do some strength and aerobic stuff on the other days. if you’re not comfortable with that, then i’d say check out the MMA place, and not just the wrestling class. fighting on street is pretty much MMA, so it’ll come in handy more than not training will…

-take care of your body. my joints are beat up, and i’ve since gotten fat… focus on fitness as a lifestyle, because your life depends on it.[/quote]

Thanks for providing some insight into my question. You have a lot of valuable experience.

My favorite is Thai Boxing. I enjoy striking more and think I’m better at it than grappling, but, I also enjoy grappling such as Judo and Wrestling. I realize how important it is to apply grappling on the job. I’m actually going to go back to Judo in August and continue Wrestling.

Ideally, I’d like to go to Thai Boxing four days per week, and twice to Judo and twice Wrestling which totals 4 days dedicated to striking and 4 days dedicated to grappling.

82

In my opinion, wrestling will give you the best skills to control an opponent. It’s definitely worth learning some of the judo skills (especially throws), but when it comes down to it 99% of altercations end up on the ground and wrestling skills will give you an incredible advantage. This is also why BJJ is great.

83

[quote]JWolfe wrote:
In my opinion, wrestling will give you the best skills to control an opponent. It’s definitely worth learning some of the judo skills (especially throws), but when it comes down to it 99% of altercations end up on the ground and wrestling skills will give you an incredible advantage. This is also why BJJ is great.[/quote]

Die zombie horse! Die!

But seriously, even if that statistic were true (which it’s not), that is because most people suck at fighting and thus when they can’t knock each other out they eventually wind up in a sloppy grappling match and tumble to the ground. A solid base in Judo, Wrestling, Sambo, Shuai Chiao, BJJ or any art that realistically trains takedowns and takedown defense is going to allow you to keep things on the feet most of the time.

Yes, wrestling is a great grappling art and I’d encourage anyone to train in it if they are serious about self defense, but it’s not necessarily superior to other grappling arts depending on clothing, goals, and terrain.

84

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]JWolfe wrote:
In my opinion, wrestling will give you the best skills to control an opponent. It’s definitely worth learning some of the judo skills (especially throws), but when it comes down to it 99% of altercations end up on the ground and wrestling skills will give you an incredible advantage. This is also why BJJ is great.[/quote]

Die zombie horse! Die!
[/quote]
I would totally watch that movie.

[quote]
But seriously, even if that statistic were true (which it’s not), that is because most people suck at fighting and thus when they can’t knock each other out they eventually wind up in a sloppy grappling match and tumble to the ground. A solid base in Judo, Wrestling, Sambo, Shuai Chiao, BJJ or any art that realistically trains takedowns and takedown defense is going to allow you to keep things on the feet most of the time.

Yes, wrestling is a great grappling art and I’d encourage anyone to train in it if they are serious about self defense, but it’s not necessarily superior to other grappling arts depending on clothing, goals, and terrain.[/quote]
Agree, of course.

A huge plus one about clothing, goals, and terrain though.

I can’t be the only one to have had the “can’t get the underhook on this fat fuck because we are both wearing Carhart style jackets and there is way too much friction.” experience.

Regards,

Robert A

85

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]JWolfe wrote:
In my opinion, wrestling will give you the best skills to control an opponent. It’s definitely worth learning some of the judo skills (especially throws), but when it comes down to it 99% of altercations end up on the ground and wrestling skills will give you an incredible advantage. This is also why BJJ is great.[/quote]

Die zombie horse! Die!
[/quote]
I would totally watch that movie.

[quote]
But seriously, even if that statistic were true (which it’s not), that is because most people suck at fighting and thus when they can’t knock each other out they eventually wind up in a sloppy grappling match and tumble to the ground. A solid base in Judo, Wrestling, Sambo, Shuai Chiao, BJJ or any art that realistically trains takedowns and takedown defense is going to allow you to keep things on the feet most of the time.

Yes, wrestling is a great grappling art and I’d encourage anyone to train in it if they are serious about self defense, but it’s not necessarily superior to other grappling arts depending on clothing, goals, and terrain.[/quote]
Agree, of course.

A huge plus one about clothing, goals, and terrain though.

I can’t be the only one to have had the “can’t get the underhook on this fat fuck because we are both wearing Carhart style jackets and there is way too much friction.” experience.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Absolutely.

Or the “I can’t even get close enough to do any damn thing because this person just has a strong grip and is stiff arming me”. Suddenly all of those shots, arm posts, duck unders and common wrestling entries are rendered completely useless because you have no idea about the “gripping game” since you never had to deal with it in wrestling/no Gi sub grappling.

86

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]Robert A wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]JWolfe wrote:
In my opinion, wrestling will give you the best skills to control an opponent. It’s definitely worth learning some of the judo skills (especially throws), but when it comes down to it 99% of altercations end up on the ground and wrestling skills will give you an incredible advantage. This is also why BJJ is great.[/quote]

Die zombie horse! Die!
[/quote]
I would totally watch that movie.

[quote]
But seriously, even if that statistic were true (which it’s not), that is because most people suck at fighting and thus when they can’t knock each other out they eventually wind up in a sloppy grappling match and tumble to the ground. A solid base in Judo, Wrestling, Sambo, Shuai Chiao, BJJ or any art that realistically trains takedowns and takedown defense is going to allow you to keep things on the feet most of the time.

Yes, wrestling is a great grappling art and I’d encourage anyone to train in it if they are serious about self defense, but it’s not necessarily superior to other grappling arts depending on clothing, goals, and terrain.[/quote]
Agree, of course.

A huge plus one about clothing, goals, and terrain though.

I can’t be the only one to have had the “can’t get the underhook on this fat fuck because we are both wearing Carhart style jackets and there is way too much friction.” experience.

Regards,

Robert A[/quote]

Absolutely.

Or the “I can’t even get close enough to do any damn thing because this person just has a strong grip and is stiff arming me”. Suddenly all of those shots, arm posts, duck unders and common wrestling entries are rendered completely useless because you have no idea about the “gripping game” since you never had to deal with it in wrestling/no Gi sub grappling.[/quote]

First couple times I tried to work off my back in sand, or heavy snow was a “learning” experience. By that I mean I failed so fucking miserably I should have been made to commit seppuku. What I thought were attempts at movement all just seemed to bury me deeper underneath. I am glad I learned that lesson in training before it came up for real.

I know the “you won’t want to grapple on pavement” argument gets brought up a lot, but honestly I think training, or doing it for real, on cement is a cakewalk compared to snow, soft mud, sand, ect. I can deal with scrapes. It mostly just makes grappling more “conservative”, though bouncing skulls off the pavement is a danger/tool. Getting planted so you are being held down by someone and laterally by the earth just plain sucks.

Just my experience/opinions.

Regards,

Robert A