Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo.
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
Following the Golden Rule(to the extent your department allows you) is better suited than either for a law enforcement officer, but staying in shape with either is better than becoming someone who breathes hard from getting out of his car.
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
I would say do whatever you enjoy and you feel is the best fit for you. You will stick with the training, make better progress, and when you need it- it will be a smooth transition. Wrestling is great and very effective. Simple mastery of the leg takedowns will let you handle 90% of the situations you encounter.
Do you do grip training? I found this is a great benefit for anything you do. I use fat grips, farmer walks and pull-ups with a towel 2x a week in addition to my regular stuff. Made a big difference.
Is the wrestling free style type of wrestling?
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
Been either military/LEO all my professional career, currently a CQB instructor/advisor for the USG. From my personal experience, I have always felt that “going to the ground” in a arrest situation, especially in full uniform, was a death sentence. Remember, you carry the means of your own death on your hip everyday. Rolling around on the ground with a resisting suspect, regardless of what type of grab prove holster you are wearing, just gives the suspect more time to rip out the handgun and kill you. Going for leg take downs would be a last resort for me. I have been in too many street arrest situations to ever want to be immobile on the ground. IMHO.
When I was DT instructor in the academy, my rule to the rookies was:if a street “fight” goes past 30 seconds, you are in trouble. Its the hands that kill you, lock them down as fast as you can. Now, I dont believe any one “art or techinque” works all the time, if someone tells you that, they are full of shit. There is a hell of a difference between arresting a passive resisting suburban DUI and some asshole on PCP.
I have trained in both, mixing in Aikido locks, small circle JJ, and various arm locks, but, that only works if you are still in the game. Vickviar said it best…train hard in what you choose, but be in the best physical shape you can be, because, that is what will allow you to survive. Cops die all the time through apathy and lack of desire to train. for myself, I train in MT, Boxing, JJ, Kali, whatever I can get. All help focus the mind, allow you to develop a combat mindset, which is what you really need to win.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
I would say do whatever you enjoy and you feel is the best fit for you. You will stick with the training, make better progress, and when you need it- it will be a smooth transition. Wrestling is great and very effective. Simple mastery of the leg takedowns will let you handle 90% of the situations you encounter.
Do you do grip training? I found this is a great benefit for anything you do. I use fat grips, farmer walks and pull-ups with a towel 2x a week in addition to my regular stuff. Made a big difference.[/quote]
Not really. I do heavy deadlifts and that’s it. Good point you just made about grip training. I need to incorporate that into my training.
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Is the wrestling free style type of wrestling?[/quote]
I’m not sure yet
[quote]idaho wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
Been either military/LEO all my professional career, currently a CQB instructor/advisor for the USG. From my personal experience, I have always felt that “going to the ground” in a arrest situation, especially in full uniform, was a death sentence. Remember, you carry the means of your own death on your hip everyday. Rolling around on the ground with a resisting suspect, regardless of what type of grab prove holster you are wearing, just gives the suspect more time to rip out the handgun and kill you. Going for leg take downs would be a last resort for me. I have been in too many street arrest situations to ever want to be immobile on the ground. IMHO.
When I was DT instructor in the academy, my rule to the rookies was:if a street “fight” goes past 30 seconds, you are in trouble. Its the hands that kill you, lock them down as fast as you can. Now, I dont believe any one “art or techinque” works all the time, if someone tells you that, they are full of shit. There is a hell of a difference between arresting a passive resisting suburban DUI and some asshole on PCP.
I have trained in both, mixing in Aikido locks, small circle JJ, and various arm locks, but, that only works if you are still in the game. Vickviar said it best…train hard in what you choose, but be in the best physical shape you can be, because, that is what will allow you to survive. Cops die all the time through apathy and lack of desire to train. for myself, I train in MT, Boxing, JJ, Kali, whatever I can get. All help focus the mind, allow you to develop a combat mindset, which is what you really need to win.
[/quote]
Good point about the leg takedowns. That might be the strongest reason to stick with Judo.
The real issue I am having is this…I can only make it to stand-up Judo classes once per week and ground Judo once per week. I am really only getting one day of stand up Judo. The Judo school I go to is great (amazing sparring partners, highly accomplished and respected Judo coach), however, the classes are tough to make because of my schedule.
[quote]idaho wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
Been either military/LEO all my professional career, currently a CQB instructor/advisor for the USG. From my personal experience, I have always felt that “going to the ground” in a arrest situation, especially in full uniform, was a death sentence. Remember, you carry the means of your own death on your hip everyday. Rolling around on the ground with a resisting suspect, regardless of what type of grab prove holster you are wearing, just gives the suspect more time to rip out the handgun and kill you. Going for leg take downs would be a last resort for me. I have been in too many street arrest situations to ever want to be immobile on the ground. IMHO.
When I was DT instructor in the academy, my rule to the rookies was:if a street “fight” goes past 30 seconds, you are in trouble. Its the hands that kill you, lock them down as fast as you can. Now, I dont believe any one “art or techinque” works all the time, if someone tells you that, they are full of shit. There is a hell of a difference between arresting a passive resisting suburban DUI and some asshole on PCP.
I have trained in both, mixing in Aikido locks, small circle JJ, and various arm locks, but, that only works if you are still in the game. Vickviar said it best…train hard in what you choose, but be in the best physical shape you can be, because, that is what will allow you to survive. Cops die all the time through apathy and lack of desire to train. for myself, I train in MT, Boxing, JJ, Kali, whatever I can get. All help focus the mind, allow you to develop a combat mindset, which is what you really need to win.
[/quote]
Good points.
That’s why I choose boxing. I wanted to be able to defend against a head strike (something that has happened multiple times). The fact that I had the experience boxing and competing in fights put me in a better position to react to those strikes.
When a wrestling/grappling situation does occur, I always would first try to disengage and go to a taser/baton/spray option. Forced to be on the ground is the last place you want to be ideally. Most of my wrestling/grappling has been during foot pursuit apprehensions… which go without saying.
Just jumping in here, fearnloathing. I’ve been an officer for 15 years, and did 7 before that as an MP, just to give you some context.
I do Erik Paulson’s Combat Submission Wrestling and also take a different private wrestling class which is pretty much a blend of freestyle and Greco-Roman.
I like Paulson’s stuff best, cos I feel it’s a very complete system. He has taken what he feels are the best techniques from wrestling, judo, BJJ, Catch Wrestling, and even some Sambo, and combined it. So, if you can find a school that teaches that, I’d highly recommend it. I add in the wrestling cos my coach teaches it for free, and it gives me extra practice with some much younger opponents (21-26 yoa). Also, my private coach has been doing it for 30 years, so he has a LOT of knowledge to impart.
That said, I’d go with whatever fits your schedule best. To say one is better than the other is awfully difficult. I think wherever you get the most physical training for your time and money is the way to go. If you get a good workout in at your Judo dojo, then continue. I know for sure you’ll get a good one at the wrestling class. Perhaps you could do one class of each during the week? It doesn’t hurt to blend the two.
If you can find a BJJ school that still teaches the self-defense aspects then that would be best. If you find yourself grappling and/or fighting with a suspect then something has gone wrong and you want to learn how to be prepared for the possibility you might get the worst of it. Wrestling is great but what if you are on your back or he is on yours? Judo is great but how good is it when you are the one being tossed around?
The thing with BJJ is that the first things you learn are how to survive and get out of bad positions and when you spar you will find yourself in those positions often. And whatever you do, you better be thinking about weapons retention because it’s a lot easier than some think for someone to get your gun. There is actual video from prisons where convicts are teaching other convicts how to disarm cops.
[quote]idaho wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
Hey guys, I’m currently a new LEO who has been training in Judo for nearly 2 months now. I enjoy it (the art and the people I train with are really helpful) but am only able to make one to two Judo sessions per week. However, there is an MMA school offering wrestling classes 3 times per week (which I can make). I am wondering if wrestling is better suited for law enforcement or Judo. [/quote]
7 year LEO officer. I never formally trained in either, but I have some friends that do Judo that swear by it. I was going to consider it before I left the drug unit I was working in. It has the holds and controls combined with the takedowns/throws.
Wrestling is great too. Most of my grappling (and other officers I have seen) occur when catching someone from a foot pursuit or when you attempt to cuff them. In that sense, Judo type stuff is great because you develop great grabbing strength with your hands.
I also box. I know it’s frowned upon, but I found it’s effective. And the good thing about boxing is that you can spar on a regular basis to give you a “sense” of seeing, avoiding, and countering punches.[/quote]
Kudos on your time on the force and unit.
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
Been either military/LEO all my professional career, currently a CQB instructor/advisor for the USG. From my personal experience, I have always felt that “going to the ground” in a arrest situation, especially in full uniform, was a death sentence. Remember, you carry the means of your own death on your hip everyday. Rolling around on the ground with a resisting suspect, regardless of what type of grab prove holster you are wearing, just gives the suspect more time to rip out the handgun and kill you. Going for leg take downs would be a last resort for me. I have been in too many street arrest situations to ever want to be immobile on the ground. IMHO.
When I was DT instructor in the academy, my rule to the rookies was:if a street “fight” goes past 30 seconds, you are in trouble. Its the hands that kill you, lock them down as fast as you can. Now, I dont believe any one “art or techinque” works all the time, if someone tells you that, they are full of shit. There is a hell of a difference between arresting a passive resisting suburban DUI and some asshole on PCP.
I have trained in both, mixing in Aikido locks, small circle JJ, and various arm locks, but, that only works if you are still in the game. Vickviar said it best…train hard in what you choose, but be in the best physical shape you can be, because, that is what will allow you to survive. Cops die all the time through apathy and lack of desire to train. for myself, I train in MT, Boxing, JJ, Kali, whatever I can get. All help focus the mind, allow you to develop a combat mindset, which is what you really need to win.
[/quote]
Great post Idaho, and great point about no one skillset being the best in all situations.
First, I’m not an expert at all, but I’ll share my experience with the subject matter.
Current LE, 8 years military, 4 years working in a downtown hospital with a psych ward.
Most of my “hands on” experience comes from the hospital. I’ve had to subdue drunks, drug users, psychs, and everything in between. One thing I learned very early was that you should avoid bodily contact with people as much as possible. I’ve had almost every bodily fluid on my skin at one point or another, and many of them had the Hivvie or the Heppie. If you end up getting into a body clinch with these people, you might as well burn your uniform.
I would look into some of the stuff idaho mentioned for the joint work, and some wrestling/judo for when things aren’t working out so much. Getting stronger and bigger helps out a lot, too. My partner and I were having trouble with this wiry guy on stims, and another guy we work with(330lbs) rolled in and crushed this guy like a tin can. The bottom of his feet, ass, and head were touching the floor, I shit you not.
Everyone else covered the rest of your question, I just wanted to bring up the issue of bodily contact with the dregs of society. If possible, avoid it!
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
If you can find a BJJ school that still teaches the self-defense aspects then that would be best. If you find yourself grappling and/or fighting with a suspect then something has gone wrong and you want to learn how to be prepared for the possibility you might get the worst of it. Wrestling is great but what if you are on your back or he is on yours? Judo is great but how good is it when you are the one being tossed around?
The thing with BJJ is that the first things you learn are how to survive and get out of bad positions and when you spar you will find yourself in those positions often. And whatever you do, you better be thinking about weapons retention because it’s a lot easier than some think for someone to get your gun. There is actual video from prisons where convicts are teaching other convicts how to disarm cops. [/quote]
Not necessarily disagreeing that an old school BJJ school would be a bad choice, but in regards to the usefulness of Judo “if you’re the one being tossed around”…
I actually think Judo would be very good for such situations because:
-
You likely will have been thrown around a lot while doing Randori (much more than most BJJ schools) and thus will be fairly comfortable adjusting to the throw or at least be pretty good at falling without being injured in the process (which is the immediate and honestly most dangerous part of being thrown to the ground is landing wrong and being seriously injured or even killed from the fall itself).
-
Unless you are dealing with a monster, it’s unlikely that your average thug is going to be tossing around a good Judoka and even if they could, you would know how to use their energy against them
So you would probably be better off with Judo than BJJ in that case. If/once it hit the ground and you found yourself on your back, then BJJ would probably be better though.
RE: Judo
I remember talking to my two friends that both have been doing it awhile and they both said something similar. They said the primary LEO officer benefit was the “ability to control someone with their hands” and developing “grip strength, holding and grabbing techniques” to totally paraphrase. In essence, they said the throw/takedowns were great but the ability to control someone’s hands (since hands are what kills us) was the key.
I thought that was interesting, and makes perfect sense.
Statement of Disclosure:
I am not an LEO, so the following should be minimized to what ever degree you feel is appropriate.
Grappling in General:
I think this is a great idea. Most of the “root arts” from which police restraints were pulled, aikijutsu, classical jujutsu, judo, ect., assume a base of grappling. Having it makes all the difference when shit goes wrong with a hold down, come along, or lock.
Wrestling vs Judo:
Most of these style vs style questions are better handled by asking and answering “Which school is better at teaching me?” This is especially true with systems that have some common ground/overlap. So, which has better teachers/classes?
Leg Attacks/Singles/Doubles/moroto gari
I think the bigger benefit of working/drilling singles and doubles is in order to get practice defending them. Some folks are critical of shooting for a leg on pavement because of worries about bottoming out and fucking up a knee. I don’t know about that, but Idaho’s points about tackling not being the greatest idea much of time work for me.
On the other hand, learning fundamental defenses such as hipping in or sprawling as well as more specific counters could keep you on your feet instead of underneath someone who wants to make you dead and/or pregnant. That is very valuable.
Submissions/Joint Locks
I think the fact Judo grappling includes certain submissions is very valuable. This will give you practice in applying restraints, joint locks, and chokes. They probably won’t be exactly like the “agency approved” versions, but it is better than nothing and gives you a real “weapon” if you wind up tangled asshole to elbow with someone you need to hurt and not just “hold down”.
Two vs Three Classes a week
More is better, but I am not sure you should sweat the difference. The Judo class is giving you a fifty/fifty mix of how to dump someone on the ground/not get put on the ground yourself and how to survive/dominate if you wind up there. That is a pretty useful spread.
Another day would be good, but there is a lot of other “martial” material you can do on an extra day outside of Judo. Spending the “third” day practicing dry fire draws, trigger control, and reloads, plus drawing/deploying any other tools(baton, cuffs, taser, pepper spray, etc. could be done at home. If you have a heavy bag you could also practice empty hands/combatives strikes and baton strikes as well.
This would give you a weekly spread of
One Day combined atemi(striking) and weapons
One Day tachi-waza
One Day ne-waza
Schedule live fire/range work as much/frequently as possible, within the bounds of range availability and ammo costs. Hopefully your agency has assets for this, if not do your best.
Try to take a seminar/training class or two a year outside of what your agency pays for. This could be martial arts or shooting oriented.
If you manage that on a weekly basis you will be doing an excellent job with improving your personal, combat skills.
The above are just some random thoughts/suggestions. I am not, nor have I ever been, a sworn officer and I hope the unsolicited input wasn’t overstepping.
Regards,
Robert A
EDTA: Fuck me. I just realized you have nyc in your screen name. I suspect you will have very little departmental support with regards to firearms, tactics, or officer survival training. You may even encounter hostility to such.
[quote]fearnloathingnyc wrote:
As much as I enjoy Judo, I find myself having a strong inclination to go for single and double leg takedowns which has not been covered in Judo. The submission and grip skills gained from Judo are great. Maybe I should take both wrestling and Judo? I like the leg takedowns and control game covered in wrestling.
[/quote]
There are single and double leg takedowns in judo. They aren’t currently allowed in tournaments (not IJF or USJF tournaments anyway) but they are traditional techniques and your instructors will know them.
The problem here is that both judo and wrestling are sports with rules and all the instruction you receive will likely be most relevant to how to score points within those rules, so no matter what there will be some disconnect from reality, as opposed to some BJJ schools that thoroughly discuss strategies for real combat. No harm in learning wrestling, judo, and any other grappling style all at once, you just might progress slower
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
If you can find a BJJ school that still teaches the self-defense aspects then that would be best. If you find yourself grappling and/or fighting with a suspect then something has gone wrong and you want to learn how to be prepared for the possibility you might get the worst of it. Wrestling is great but what if you are on your back or he is on yours? Judo is great but how good is it when you are the one being tossed around?
The thing with BJJ is that the first things you learn are how to survive and get out of bad positions and when you spar you will find yourself in those positions often. And whatever you do, you better be thinking about weapons retention because it’s a lot easier than some think for someone to get your gun. There is actual video from prisons where convicts are teaching other convicts how to disarm cops. [/quote]
Not necessarily disagreeing that an old school BJJ school would be a bad choice, but in regards to the usefulness of Judo “if you’re the one being tossed around”…
I actually think Judo would be very good for such situations because:
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You likely will have been thrown around a lot while doing Randori (much more than most BJJ schools) and thus will be fairly comfortable adjusting to the throw or at least be pretty good at falling without being injured in the process (which is the immediate and honestly most dangerous part of being thrown to the ground is landing wrong and being seriously injured or even killed from the fall itself).
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Unless you are dealing with a monster, it’s unlikely that your average thug is going to be tossing around a good Judoka and even if they could, you would know how to use their energy against them
So you would probably be better off with Judo than BJJ in that case. If/once it hit the ground and you found yourself on your back, then BJJ would probably be better though.
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I would agree but I am making the assumption that we aren’t talking about a good Judoka. Obviously people begin whatever martial art at different sizes, physical abilities and experience with being physical so what a given individual should do will vary. If I were to take a general position it would be that before someone learns how to be offensive and dominate an opponent they should learn how to survive first.