Maybe its’ more important to know if you like her?
IMO it sounds like shes into you; she’s invited you to go hiking and out for brunch… Pretty solid chances she likes you.
If you like her, then just ask her out and you’ll have your answer. No sense in beating around the bush man.
Rant Ahead:
The discussion of self image/comparison in the Porn thread got me thinking.
I “take pride” in not being sexy or pretty and tend to treat my relationships with male classmates/friends (with the exception of 1) as utilitarian- basically capital inputs into my academic production function
I was thinking about this and feel like it is more of a defense mechanism to not feel so bad about not getting attention the way I saw the other girls getting attention. It’s hard to admit but I’d sometimes feel FOMO seeing classmates with their partners.
A couple months ago, I did get attention from gym buddy.
I honestly preferred the arrangement I had with my friend (that one), who I actually like.
When I say that I like him, I mean that I like him but not really in a romantic way. I really don’t give a crap about him as a person. I like him because he is very similar to me in many regards, but a lot better in some important areas
I find these two statements conflicting.
Do you think you are attractive? By that i mean, do you like the way you look/are you happy to look at yourself in the mirror? To me, the above statements sound like a body image issue - but i know only as much about you as i’ve gathered through ~12 posts, so not very well.
no. my face is not attractive. I don’t really care at this point. I can’t change that with hard work like I can change my body composition
I am pretty lean and muscular (could always be more of both of course). actually, my legs and arms are probably bigger than many ppl would consider conventionally attractive
yes. I have body image issues, but not because I think I’m not pretty enough to be attractive for boys. I want to be leaner and more muscular bc it shows my hard work and I like looking leaner even if most guys think being somewhat softer is more attractive.
When I say I did not get attention, it is more from an emotional thing. No one seemed to want to hang out with me or get to know me. However, I could always get help with stuff if I needed it → utilitarian.
OTOH, my female friends are real friends. They’ve just been very hard to come by. I finally have some now
This sounds like body dismorphia - a frequent among many of us on this site. You should probably avoid thinking that all men are interested in the same thing too. Plenty of dudes are straight up into feet, and feet are weird… So generalizing physical interests won’t help you. Also, I think it is fair to say that any guy that is interested in the same things as you, or at least likes going to the gym, will probably find muscle tone attractive as well.
Again, from a completely outside perspective, you sound like you are fully dedicated to your studies and personal growth. While there is nothing inherently wrong with this, it is a lifestyle you are choosing, and it sounds like it has taken over a fair amount of your personality as well… I say that because there is rarely a post i see of yours that doesn’t scream Hermione Granger levels of caring about your academics.
IMO, you need to find people intererested in the same things as you, or at least have one common interest. Considering you are college age, hormones are still raging… which is why college is known for rampant sexual encounters by many people. Not saying you should overtly display an interest in sex, but you give off a vibe of completely not interested… Unfortunately for your demographic, this is going to drive a lot of guys away unless they are REALLY interested in you.
I don’t really know what to extrapolate from this, because it sounds as if you like him, but dont like him, but like him - just not like that… If whoever this guy is, is a decent person and friend to you - that person is probably going to make one hell of a companion.
Not trying to psychoanalyze you, this just sticks out like a sore thumb.
But hey, I married my best friend so my opinions are biased. 
EDIT:
its a good thing you found some female friends. Friends are tough to come by, and college friends are notoriously flakey - so good on you for finding some good friends.
I can see how feet can be attractive but personally I do not have a foot fetish.
I should clarify that i’m not disgusted by feet or anything, i’m just not into them like that. Feet are feet, let them do what feet are meant to do
I truly enjoy research and learning. THe struggle I have with school is getting graded.
This has honestly been harder to come by with female friends.
I have found a collection of guys who are willing to talk econ with me or to bounce ideas off of
My thing is that I like to dive REALLY deep into things. ie Many girls like fashion, but I’m not interested in buying clothes, I’m more interested in high fashion or jewelry as art. It takes me a 2 hrs or so to get through an episode of House bc I take time to google all the procedures and conditions
It’s more like I want to BE like him- have his work ethic, logical thinking, maths ability. Thinking about it, I never wanted to be WITH him. the liking part is more utilitarian. If I can’t literally have his work ethic and skills, I might as well have a close association
Rationally speaking, even if he did like me in that way, it would never work out. He’s nitpicky like my advisor, who I find extremely frustrating to work for/with. I cannot imagine having to deal with that in a personal relationship
Congratulations!
These little bits of self knowledge and insight can be hard to come by for some people.
That’s truly awesome.
You won’t hear me say anything bad about this, ever. It does carry a weight though; it isnt a group activity - and usually will not be an activity to be shared with a partner. Do what you enjoy, just leave time for other things you may enjoy as well.
Unpopular opinion: that’s because girls (and boys) your age are shit. I dont mean all of them, i simply mean that most are more than happy to spend all their free time drinking or running up a credit card bill buying shit they dont need. There will be a few that are interested in similar things though.
So you admire these qualities and aspire to have them yourself, but not necessarily in a partner? Also, having a partner has nothing to do with being utilitarian. If anything, it should be the opposite, if one would apply the term “unconditional love” to this (making myself throw up in my mouth a bit here).
Again, i dont know you that well, but don’t you think YOU are a tad nitpicky too…? I remember one of your posts saying something to the tune of wanting an emotional relationship without the physical side - is that right?
You mention the word “utilitarian” a lot, and though it’s great in a business/professional environment - it holds very little use when talking about friends and partners. Sure, it’s nice to have friends that bring utility to the ‘relationship’ but it sounds ridiculous if i said “you can only be my friend if you provide me value”
haha no offence taken. It was MUCH worse before uni. At least I have the econ research club and my “research friend” to talk with.
It was REALLY bad in elementary and middle school. Turns out most kids aren’t interested in WWII
I definitely want them in a partner
I have yet to develop feeling like that for someone outside of my family.
Oh, I think you are misunderstanding. When I say nitpicky, I mean things like wanting a peice of paper to be perfectly smooth, pointing out ever grammar mistake, making sure things are aligned to the pixed etc
I am not the most detail oriented
In terms of relationships/ partners, I AM VERY VERY nitpicky. This is by design
I think you’re going to find that a lot of people that have these good qualities will also have some of the bad qualities of being overly detail oriented/nitpicky/OCD.
I think this is a recipe for loneliness. There’s literally always a reason not to like someone, having a partner is about looking past those reasons and noticing all the reasons you DO like someone. As you said, it’s by design, but I don’t know if living your life this way is going to end up with you being happy.
It’s a graded scale- The idea is that I will gradually loosen things when it becomes appropriate.
I think the most important things to look for in a partner are good temperament, aligning dreams, and agreement regarding the big three issues: sex, money, and child rearing.
The details of who/what you are matter very little. I’m happy to read a book while my husband watches sports. I’m sure he glazes over when I talk about the problem with the way billable hours are calculated at work and I know I glaze over when he talks about issues with installing research equipment or university parking. I’m interested in diet and exercise and he still thinks potatoes are vegetables. He takes down trees and digs culverts for fun and exercise and can’t think why the rower has any appeal to me.
But we both like laughing, and do a great deal of it together. We both like being outside and challenging our bodies. We share our visions of good sex, happy family time, and optimal housing. We’re perfectly matched as vigorous savers who also joyously spend. When we talk about 5, 10, 20 years from now we’re in general agreement as to how it might look.
Some couples work together or meet at work, but I would bet money that shared profession is not what holds the marriage together. It’s the shared temperaments and attitudes about home things.
Do you know how infuriating it will be be for a man to constantly level up to your endless standards and expectations, as if he will be some eternal slave and work horse for you, with an emotionally-abusive system of rewards and punishments and fear of abandonment by his master, in return for no sex and no children, just a Pat on the head for being a good boy.
This is emotionally abusive and humiliating and I’d feel sorry for a man in this predicament.
Some things to consider:
I’m not joking.
I think you misunderstand.
The idea is that I will make my requirements (for my own use) looser as time goes on
I’ve intentionally made them impossible to meet right now so I wont get tempted. My friend (that one) is good with “It’s not something I’m looking for”.
I’m not as disciplined. I need a commitment device.
I don’t expect ANYONE to work for me.
I am VERY VERY familiar with this. Mum and Dad’s marriage fell apart after having my little bro and me.
From what I’ve observed (as the unliscenced marriage counselour), the conflict stemmed from mum’s resentment and a mismatch in personality- particularly ambition.
Mum is a natural go- getter, but is less personable. She sacrificed a lot to help dad’s career (helping him get interviews, helping him study, taking up most of the childcare resonsibilities…). Dad has been extremely successful, but she thinks that he didn’t stretch himself enough and did not take the necessary steps to make our transition to life in Shanghai good (ie not buying a house, not helping her find a job…) Essentially, it’s a "“I invested in a scam” type of feeling. IMO, she made a great investment, but dad made a lot of big mistakes and I get why she’s resentful
My list is based largely on what I’ve seem- things like ambition/career focus and hard work and self discipline are non-negotiables
There are extra items thrown in for the time being just to make it hard. Those will be removed in due time
I am also aware that I might end up staying single for life. I guess I’ll just have to be okay with that. I have friends. I’d rather be single than settle and go through what mum and dad did
You know, it’s not set in stone, but MOST people go with what they know, which is to say that they re-create the same dynamics and behaviors that they learned in their family of origin.
It doesn’t just require the decision to do things differently, but a monumental force of will and more often than not, outside assistance.
I agree. I basically grew into a husband figure that mimicked my father minus the verbal and physical abuse and it took monumental force in the shape of an affair and a nasty divorce to realize I was a piece of shit. Best thing that ever happened to me. Without going through that I’d probably still be that same piece of trash human I was.
It’s tough. I mean, you learn to behave that way for a looooong time. What is normal, how to treat others, how you are accustomed to being treated. These things become deeply ingrained.
Unfortunately, what it takes to break that type of behavioral modeling is usually catastrophic.
It took me hitting bottom using alcohol and drugs just to Start to change, examine my behavior and the thinking behind it, and try to do things differently.
Hey, but we made it. Hoping there’s gonna be more people with good stories at my funeral now.