Occupy Wall Street

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
61

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Are any of you complaining that the top 10% of income earners in America pay 70% of all income tax?

[/quote]

Normally I agree with you…but those top 10% employ an ARMY of CPA’s and Tax Attorneys…they make all sorts of moves to avoid paying the percentage of taxes that a 50-100K person does.
[/quote]

At least that’s what most people think and maybe it is true to a degree. But even so how much more do you think that the top 10% need to pay? I think 70% of all taxes paid is incredible. And by the way the top 1% of income earners (those making over 380-k per year) pay 37% of all taxes! Now if you think that they employ accountants and lawyers to somehow get them out of paying as much well, I guess they’re not earning their money.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

If the average Joe realized the facts they wouldn’t be listening to Obama’s class warfare rhetoric. Nor would they be walking up and down protesting like idiots.

62

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]Ratchet wrote:
Did anyone read a bunch of those. All of these people have:

  1. a place to live
  2. a car
  3. food
  4. friends / family that help them out
  5. free money from the government to live on while “trying” to find a job.

I dont know about any of you, but thats not a bad life, is it a life of excess? no, but neither is most peoples lives… [/quote]

I’ll have to find it again, but I remember a report that came out earlier this year based off census data. The average family in the US living in ‘poverty’ had:
A place to live
Food
At least one car
A big screen tv
At least one gaming system (current; wii, xbox 360, ps3)
Clean water
Clothes
Etc

To me, compared to the rest of the world, our families in poverty are sitting kinda nicely.
[/quote]

I made a thread about it already and everyone threw shit at me for suggesting that instead of focusing on everyone labeled “under the poverty line” which is arbitrarily at thirty percent of America (I even found out I was considered under the poverty line and I live an awesome life), we focus on the something like .8% of American families that are actually homeless. Get more return for our money since the rest of the money is just supporting people sitting on their couch.[/quote]

HELL…YES

Also, make the requirements for social services more stringent, drug testing, verification of dependents ect. And don’t make it a moneymaking benefit to having more children i.e more children = escalating welfare.[/quote]

You guys might actually be able to understand the situation if you weren’t busy jerking off to your superiority over all those “lazy” people who are unemployed because they’re “sitting on the couch” instead of going to work.

If “poverty” is so great and the poor are just getting a free ride, heres an idea: quit. Quit your job, move in with “family or friends”, just sit on the couch and take the free ride too.

Whats that? You wont? Oh, right, I forget - you’re just better than all of them.

That about right?[/quote]

How many three generation welfare families do you know? How many two generation welfare families do you know?

63

Geez, no love for history majors in here.

64

Sorry Mr. Planet, I did not know that you were short of work, I understand that you might think people see you as a lesser person…I am only speaking to the people who DO IN FACT abuse the governmental assistance they receive.

I is massively prevalent both in my home state of California and here in Utah where poor families continue to pump our kids and collect massive amounts of state and federal assistance.

I’m not saying I am any better than those people, I was just not content to live my life depending on anybody but myself.

And spare me the “woe is me, I don’t wanna be poor” BULLSHIT argument…anybody who wants it bad enough can scratch their way out of the cellar.

65

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
And YOU miss the point in that all those “people who simply want to exist on the goverment dole” don’t actually exist. That’s just you trying to convince yourself that you’re somehow inherently better than them.
[/quote]

You’re right. My classmates who are fully capable of working but choose to live off of grants and loans because they don’t want to work dong exist. My friends roommate who has been on unemployment for nearly two years because he prefers not to work doesn’t exist. My friends dad who opts to live on unemployment because he doesn’t want to do jobs that he feels are ‘below’ him doesn’t exist.

My uncle’s a realtor. A certain percentage of his houses are required to be section 8. These families don’t work, live off welfare. When he goes and does property checks every how-ever-often, they always have new big screen tvs, video games, sometimes new vehicles, and a nice abundance of drug paraphenilia. Yeah, they don’t exist.

My coworker back when I was an EMT. She could easily afford the junior college she was going to, yet she applied for, and was awarded grant money from the government. Want to know what she spent it on? A motorcycle. Then even though everyone at work gave her shot for doing that, when she got a second grant, second motorcycle. She doesn’t exist either.

Yeah. We’re wrong. Noone out there is abusing the system. It doesn’t exist. It’s all a right wing conspiracy.

66

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Are any of you complaining that the top 10% of income earners in America pay 70% of all income tax?

[/quote]

Normally I agree with you…but those top 10% employ an ARMY of CPA’s and Tax Attorneys…they make all sorts of moves to avoid paying the percentage of taxes that a 50-100K person does.
[/quote]

At least that’s what most people think and maybe it is true to a degree. But even so how much more do you think that the top 10% need to pay? I think 70% of all taxes paid is incredible. And by the way the top 1% of income earners (those making over 380-k per year) pay 37% of all taxes! Now if you think that they employ accountants and lawyers to somehow get them out of paying as much well, I guess they’re not earning their money.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

If the average Joe realized the facts they wouldn’t be listening to Obama’s class warfare rhetoric. Nor would they be walking up and down protesting like idiots.[/quote]

My only point was, until there is a flat tax (never gonna happen) the super wealthy will continue to work the system (can’t blame them for trying).

If I was in that top 1% I would try hard as fuck to hold on to as much of my wealth as I could…it’s human nature.

67

They should all be protesting the fact that ~70% of trades are through computer algorithms. These programs put in giant orders and cancel them at the last microsecond to try and influence market movements. They aren’t based on company fundamentals or anything else. This is not what the market was intended for. 70% of fucking trading man. There are firms that say they lose money only a couple days out of the year. That isn’t possible without some sort of inside trading/manipulation. And the argument is “but it provides liquidity”. Fuck that, I’d rather have transparency.

68

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Are any of you complaining that the top 10% of income earners in America pay 70% of all income tax?

[/quote]

Normally I agree with you…but those top 10% employ an ARMY of CPA’s and Tax Attorneys…they make all sorts of moves to avoid paying the percentage of taxes that a 50-100K person does.
[/quote]

At least that’s what most people think and maybe it is true to a degree. But even so how much more do you think that the top 10% need to pay? I think 70% of all taxes paid is incredible. And by the way the top 1% of income earners (those making over 380-k per year) pay 37% of all taxes! Now if you think that they employ accountants and lawyers to somehow get them out of paying as much well, I guess they’re not earning their money.

http://ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

If the average Joe realized the facts they wouldn’t be listening to Obama’s class warfare rhetoric. Nor would they be walking up and down protesting like idiots.[/quote]

My only point was, until there is a flat tax (never gonna happen) the super wealthy will continue to work the system (can’t blame them for trying).

If I was in that top 1% I would try hard as fuck to hold on to as much of my wealth as I could…it’s human nature.[/quote]

And the reality is they are NOT working the system, they’re carrying the system, along with everyone else, on their backs!

69

I like the fact that people are standing up! But most of these protesters have no clue what they are standing up against. They just released their “mission statement”. It covers WAY to many subjects. They need to decrease the number of bullet points if they want to accomplish anything.

First off, so many protesters keep refering to “Our Democracy!” This country is a Constitutional Republic. There are important differences. With so many history majors there protesting I wonder how they got through college without understanding this/end sarcasm. I love this video.

Student loan debt? All the posters about how far in debt you are and your inability to find a job are hilarious. I was $23k in debt when I graduated. I didn’t complain. I made a conscious decision to take out that loan and therefore it is my RESPONSIBILITY to pay it back. I also worked part time and full time jobs through school in an effort to not end up $100k in debt. I could understand if they were protesting the high price of tuition, which has skyrocketed since the dept. of education got involved and since student loans/grants were made more easily attainable…kinda like the housing market, eh?

Evil capitalism? We haven’t had a “free market” in this country for quite some time. I see a lot of “evil rich” posters. Ugh. Good job further dividing this country.

These protesters are outraged at the big banks, but from a few videos I have seen they are in support of another 4 years for Obama. HUH?? You mean the guy that received $1 million from Goldman Sachs for his 2008 campaign? Idiots. Also, they think the answer to big banks is bigger govt. with more regulation. Lost souls indeed.

I see no signs about ending the Federal Reserve and it’s not listed on their mission statement. Sound monetary policy will ease some of our pain. That’s impossible as long as the Fed continues to operate “behind the curtain.”

With so many people zealously involved, I understand it’s hard to come up with a clear-cut set of goals. I also suspect this is a lot like a reality TV show. The rational/boring protesters are not receiving as much coverage as the whacky/entertaining bunch. I hope that is the case and there are some people there with brains.

Hopefully they will get more organized and informed.

70

Told you those right-wing tea party kooks would start getting disruptive. Oh, wait…

72

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Are any of you complaining that the top 10% of income earners in America pay 70% of all income tax?

[/quote]

Yes, because they make over 90% of the income. Wall street gets bail outs and lobbies congress for sweetheart deals. Main street gets kicked to the curb.

73

[quote]BadAsset wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Are any of you complaining that the top 10% of income earners in America pay 70% of all income tax?

[/quote]

Yes, because they make over 90% of the income. Wall street gets bail outs and lobbies congress for sweetheart deals. Main street gets kicked to the curb.[/quote]

Then they should support tea-party candidates. If they’re looking for anti-too big to fail–folks, it dang sure wasn’t Obama and his democrats.

74

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]BadAsset wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Are any of you complaining that the top 10% of income earners in America pay 70% of all income tax?

[/quote]

Yes, because they make over 90% of the income. Wall street gets bail outs and lobbies congress for sweetheart deals. Main street gets kicked to the curb.[/quote]

Then they should support tea-party candidates. If they’re looking for anti-too big to fail–folks, it dang sure wasn’t Obama and his democrats.[/quote]

There are all types of people protesting, but a major message coming out of the protest is there are no real differences between dems and repubs. There has been no change.

75

76

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
Sorry Mr. Planet, I did not know that you were short of work, I understand that you might think people see you as a lesser person…I am only speaking to the people who DO IN FACT abuse the governmental assistance they receive.

I is massively prevalent both in my home state of California and here in Utah where poor families continue to pump our kids and collect massive amounts of state and federal assistance.

I’m not saying I am any better than those people, I was just not content to live my life depending on anybody but myself.

And spare me the “woe is me, I don’t wanna be poor” BULLSHIT argument…anybody who wants it bad enough can scratch their way out of the cellar.

[/quote]

From what I’ve gathered about welfare, families with children under a certain age get assistance, and once the kid passes that age, it disappears. So women will continue to have children because that’s the only way they can continue to get assistance. Please dont respond with “Exactly, they’re milking the system!” because they’re actually trapped in the system, seeing as how they probably cant raise several kids, go to school, and find an entry level job to support even just themselves (look up the stats on cost of living vs entry level jobs).

77

[quote]benos4752 wrote:

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
And YOU miss the point in that all those “people who simply want to exist on the goverment dole” don’t actually exist. That’s just you trying to convince yourself that you’re somehow inherently better than them.
[/quote]

You’re right. My classmates who are fully capable of working but choose to live off of grants and loans because they don’t want to work dong exist. My friends roommate who has been on unemployment for nearly two years because he prefers not to work doesn’t exist. My friends dad who opts to live on unemployment because he doesn’t want to do jobs that he feels are ‘below’ him doesn’t exist.

My uncle’s a realtor. A certain percentage of his houses are required to be section 8. These families don’t work, live off welfare. When he goes and does property checks every how-ever-often, they always have new big screen tvs, video games, sometimes new vehicles, and a nice abundance of drug paraphenilia. Yeah, they don’t exist.

My coworker back when I was an EMT. She could easily afford the junior college she was going to, yet she applied for, and was awarded grant money from the government. Want to know what she spent it on? A motorcycle. Then even though everyone at work gave her shot for doing that, when she got a second grant, second motorcycle. She doesn’t exist either.

Yeah. We’re wrong. Noone out there is abusing the system. It doesn’t exist. It’s all a right wing conspiracy. [/quote]

Ok. You’re right, I shouldn’t have made an overgeneralization like that. Some people do game the system.

However, the attitude that every person on government assistance or unemployed is “just lazy” is equally incorrect. Regardless, I apologize.

78

If those damn “lazy losers” would just “get off the couch” they’d be fine…

"I graduated high school with honors in the top 5% of my class. I attend a top-ranked university, seeking two degrees. I?m only halfway done with college, and I have a 3.65 GPA and $25,924 in debt.

I?m currently taking 17 credits. I work 20 hours a week. I volunteer at an after school program for underprivileged kids in a poor neighborhood.

I live with my older sister, and she pays way more than half the rent. She pays for our internet, electricity, and cell phone bills.

My single mother works two jobs. She took at a $10,000 loan to help pay for my education, but she hasn?t been able to pay any of it back. She pays for my health insurance.

My father can?t cosign for me because he?s still paying back his own student loans. He recently missed three weeks of work due to illness, had emergency heart surgery, and can?t afford his bills. He pays for my car insurance.

Last year I lived on campus and earned minimum wage. After paying atrociously high rent, I barely had enough money to buy food. My boyfriend invited me over to dinner every night so I wouldn?t have to buy groceries.

I?m dependent on everyone else.

I?m one of the lucky ones.

All I want is a good job and a well-earned degree, a family, a wonderful husband and kids, but I don?t want to raise children in a world like this.

I?m terrified for my future."

Please, someone tell me again about how “all you have to do is work hard and you will be successful, anyone who isn’t is just lazy”! Please.

79

"I am a college professor, teaching our future generations. But like more than 50% of all college professors, I?m an Adjunct ?contractor?. This means I can be fired for any reason; this means I receive no paid vacation; this means I receive no health insurance; this means I receive no sick days; this means I receive no retirement; this means I receive no unemployment; this means I pay double Social Security taxes!

And I am paid little better than minimum wage."

80

"I am 62 years old. I have worked honestly and hard my whole life (since I was 14) because that is how you ?realize The American Dream.?

I was a home builder and designer.

In 1980, the ?Savings & Loan Crisis? forced me out of work and out of business. (the government helped the banks survive?) I slowly rebuilt my life and business.

In 2007, the ?Sub-Prime Mortgage Crisis? crushed me again. I lost my business, my home, my wife and my belief in that American Dream. (the government saved the banks again?)"