this pretty much sums him up. and as much as I’d like to see the Manny-Floyd fight, a small part of me doesn’t so Floyd’s legacy will be one of allegations, ducking and excuse making.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]fnf wrote:
Pac was drained for the 2nd fight. He had a hard time making that weight.
[/quote]
Like I said, Marquez beat him twice. He’ll win this time too.[/quote]
Whatever happens, the fight better be better that this…
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Probably.
Mayweather is a retard. "he moved up in weight he’s on steroids! :(( " Except when mayweather gained 20lbs nobody shakes the PED finger at him.
Also what is up with him breaking into tears saying this same shit at the post-ortiz press conference?[/quote]
Well, keep a couple things in mind… Manny started off way lighter than Floyd did - his first fights were at 106, Floyd’s were at 130.
And as Floyd has aged and grown, his style has changed accordingly. Back in the day, announcers would talk about the power that May had, and how he could knock you out with one punch. He also threw a shitload of combos. As he’s aged, he potshots more, and clearly at 147 he doesn’t have the power he had at lightweight.
This is how it goes for most fighters.
But then you get a guy like Pac, who couldn’t KO Morales or Marquez at 130 but all of a sudden is kayo’ing Ricky Hatton and knocking down guys like Miguel Cotto and Shane Mosley, and you’ve got to wonder how he actually INCREASED his power going up and facing bigger guys.
Had he knocked down Margarito, I would have said test his ass right away.
But, I think Manny realizes that there’s so much to lose if he gets caught… but who knows. In reality its impossible to tell without a test.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
Probably.
Mayweather is a retard. "he moved up in weight he’s on steroids! :(( " Except when mayweather gained 20lbs nobody shakes the PED finger at him.
Also what is up with him breaking into tears saying this same shit at the post-ortiz press conference?[/quote]
Well, keep a couple things in mind… Manny started off way lighter than Floyd did - his first fights were at 106, Floyd’s were at 130.
And as Floyd has aged and grown, his style has changed accordingly. Back in the day, announcers would talk about the power that May had, and how he could knock you out with one punch. He also threw a shitload of combos. As he’s aged, he potshots more, and clearly at 147 he doesn’t have the power he had at lightweight.
This is how it goes for most fighters.
But then you get a guy like Pac, who couldn’t KO Morales or Marquez at 130 but all of a sudden is kayo’ing Ricky Hatton and knocking down guys like Miguel Cotto and Shane Mosley, and you’ve got to wonder how he actually INCREASED his power going up and facing bigger guys.
Had he knocked down Margarito, I would have said test his ass right away.
But, I think Manny realizes that there’s so much to lose if he gets caught… but who knows. In reality its impossible to tell without a test.[/quote]
When I first saw May, he did throw a lot of combos, but over time he’s had trouble with his hands. I forgot what magazine did a piece on May, but it said that if it weren’t for Mays brittle hands, he’d have more KO’s. I do believe that.
Pac did stop Morales in his 2nd and 3rd fight and I believe Marquez has never been KO’d. I’ve always thought Hatton was an overrated European boxer, sorry Irish. I won A LOT of money when I bet that May and Pac would both KO him.
Maybe because of Pac’s change of diet and strength training regimen, it has allowed him to get stronger. But Diaz has said that it’s not Pac’s power that hurt him, but the speed and odd angles that Pac’s punches come from. Also the first knockdown of Cotto was an uppercut that Cotto did not see, which Cotto quickly got up from that punch.
I’m one of the few Filipinos that have said that IF Pac and May fight, it will be May by split decision. And I’m a traitor for it. hahahahahahaahha
I see most of Pac’s increased effectiveness coming from improving his timing and accuracy, not from getting bigger muscles. He has grown from a bit of a brawler into a boxer puncher and I think that accounts for it. Roach has done a good job getting the most out of Pac.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
this pretty much sums him up. and as much as I’d like to see the Manny-Floyd fight, a small part of me doesn’t so Floyd’s legacy will be one of allegations, ducking and excuse making. [/quote]
Really…really? I would say regardless Floyd’s legacy will be one of being a consummate professional and a boxer’s boxer IN THE RING. The fact he is simultaneously a douche-bag’s douche-bag outside of the ring really won’t be an issue for history. The line between ducking fights and making good match ups can be debated ad nauseam, but I am going to need to see him look bad in a fight before I take any of the “ducking and excuse making” as a sign of anything more than business savvy and brinkmanship.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Whatever happens, the fight better be better that this…
Holy shit.
Is that more, less, or equally shameful compared to Roy Jones Jr.'s Rap album?
Regards,
Robert A
Pac started when he was 16 for cryin’ out loud. Are you telling me, that a guy who NEVER lifted weights and employed a strength and conditioning coach until recently is VERY SUSPICIOUS? This is a body building site, and I can’t understand how you guys can’t seem to get around that logic.
Who the fuck is Floyd to tell another fighter to do what Floyd Mayweather wants? You have the Athletic Commission testing Pacquiao ever since he started fighting in the US. If there had been ANY reason to be suspicious, they would have had it.
So, Floyd Mayweather suddenly becomes a God and demands unnecessary, unsanctioned testing? This guy is unbelievably outrageous, I don’t know how anyone can side with him.
I remember seeing an interview with Pac (years ago) describing doing a blood test a week before a fight and feeling weaker and performing badly in the fight because of it. That’s basically what Mayweather wants to go up against and why he’s pushing for those tests.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Really…really? I would say regardless Floyd’s legacy will be one of being a consummate professional and a boxer’s boxer IN THE RING. The fact he is simultaneously a douche-bag’s douche-bag outside of the ring really won’t be an issue for history. The line between ducking fights and making good match ups can be debated ad nauseam, but I am going to need to see him look bad in a fight before I take any of the “ducking and excuse making” as a sign of anything more than business savvy and brinkmanship.
Regards,
Robert A[/quote]
well I beg to differ. Maybe 100 years from now nobody will know all this stuff and give him the benefit of the doubt as being a great, ((unless it well documented in credible places like the internet lulz)) But if Floyd keeps doing this ring around the rosey, what else are we today living through it all to believe?? My opinion of him will change to a legend if he beats Manny, and if he loses, to one of the greatest. But as is, not doing all he can to test himself against Manny, and to trash him and question his professionalism only makes him a cowardly thug jk a great boxer. But no legend or anything to brag about.
Put it this way, imagine every legend (joe louis, moore, ray robinson, foreman, ali, ray leonard) duck their biggest rival, opinions of them would be way much worse than if they outright lost the fight the would of ducked. Nobody likes a cowardly/paper champion… Remember rocky 3 with Mr. T?? bwahahhaa
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Who the fuck is Floyd to tell another fighter to do what Floyd Mayweather wants? You have the Athletic Commission testing Pacquiao ever since he started fighting in the US. If there had been ANY reason to be suspicious, they would have had it.
[/quote]
This is very true. Nobody wants to be dictated to. Even Mayweather.
Some of the shit posted in Pacquio’s defense is ridiculous. Taking a blood test doesn’t make one weaker for an entire week. I’ve taken several and was back to normal after a night of sleep. And, if Pac’s got nothing to hide, why not do it? I’m sure Mayweather would have no problem taking the same tests. It’s pretty obvious the Pacquio is juicing, and anyone who argues this doesn’t understand how the body works. You don’t magically gain the physical advantages that Pac has over the years.That’s not to say that Mayweather hasn’t touched the sauce, 'cause it wouldn’t surprise at all if he is/was. Most (if not all) at the highest level are on something, and to think otherwise is simply naive.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Some of the shit posted in Pacquio’s defense is ridiculous. Taking a blood test doesn’t make one weaker for an entire week. I’ve taken several and was back to normal after a night of sleep. And, if Pac’s got nothing to hide, why not do it? I’m sure Mayweather would have no problem taking the same tests. It’s pretty obvious the Pacquio is juicing, and anyone who argues this doesn’t understand how the body works. You don’t magically gain the physical advantages that Pac has over the years.That’s not to say that Mayweather hasn’t touched the sauce, 'cause it wouldn’t surprise at all if he is/was. Most (if not all) at the highest level are on something, and to think otherwise is simply naive.[/quote]
So, you can gain muscle as a natural bodybuilder but not as a boxer?
Like I said, Pac only RECENTLY enlisted Ariza’s help for his strength and conditioning. You’re telling me, a 110lb 16 year old CAN NOT put on muscle mass as he fills out his frame AND with proper strength and conditioning which he previously have NOT used/done?
A regular skinny person can put on 20+lbs of muscle in 10 years but somehow Pac can’t without juicing?
Why can’t people accept the fact that Mayweather is running from PAC? Ali never ducked a fight, neither did Frazier, Tyson and certainly not Pacquiao.
Again, this guy has the nerve to defame someone’s legacy because he’s scared of the guy. Who is this guy to say, “oh he’s too good, he must be juicing.” Get the fuck outta here man.
Like Pac says after every fight, A fighter’s job is to fight. The Athletic Commission’s job is to test fighters, and have caught quite a few. The promoter sets up fights and the trainer gets the fighters ready.
This guy needs to stop running. Even Daniel Tosh’s gay ass took a punch from Pacquiao.
I see several are pointing to greats not “running” from fights. Thing is, they often do. Tyson pretty much ran from George Foreman. I know it looks weird, but Foreman’s comeback coincided with Tyson’s career. The story is Tyson was told by Cus D’Amato that Foreman’s style was a natural foil for him and that he couldn’t beat him. Tyson also had a fairly brief time at the top.
Ali is getting tossed around but there are plenty of stories about Ali or his supporters doing things outside the ring to prevent fighters from being their best. I am thinking specifically of the threats and antics against Liston and the delays and threats against Foreman.
Bowe threw a belt in the trash rather than fight Lennox Lewis. Holyfield did everything he could to avoid this match as well.
Basically, where is the line between ducking and simply smart matchmaking? I get that Mayweather is such an asshole outside the ring that people want any and all criticisms to stick. That does not mean that he is always the de facto Bad Actor. Pac’s camp balks at blood tests and is rightly being very careful about weight because he is undersized in this match up. At different times both sides have pushed for the fight and begged off because they have not both NEEDED the fight equally at the same time.
Regards,
Robert A
[quote]Robert A wrote:
I see several are pointing to greats not “running” from fights. Thing is, they often do. Tyson pretty much ran from George Foreman. I know it looks weird, but Foreman’s comeback coincided with Tyson’s career. The story is Tyson was told by Cus D’Amato that Foreman’s style was a natural foil for him and that he couldn’t beat him. Tyson also had a fairly brief time at the top. [/quote]
I think it’s pretty safe to say that Ali fought all the contenders, same as Louis, same as Foreman, same as Hagler, Leonard and Hearns. These were times when ‘men’ were fighting, not businessmen.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Ali is getting tossed around but there are plenty of stories about Ali or his supporters doing things outside the ring to prevent fighters from being their best. I am thinking specifically of the threats and antics against Liston and the delays and threats against Foreman. [/quote]
I think you might be referring to the eyewitness accounts of Angelo Dundee or a few of Ali’s corner loosened the ropes before the Foreman fight to make the rope-a-dope much easier. Even with all the stupid antics or cheating if you will, he still got in the ring and had to face his rival.
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Bowe threw a belt in the trash rather than fight Lennox Lewis. Holyfield did everything he could to avoid this match as well. [/quote]
Yet Holyfield/Lewis had 2 epic battles. I don’t think anyone denies that it happens, you can’t admit that it somehow tarnishes your image of that fighter. Look at your statement in regards to Bowe???
[quote]Robert A wrote:
Basically, where is the line between ducking and simply smart matchmaking? I get that Mayweather is such an asshole outside the ring that people want any and all criticisms to stick. That does not mean that he is always the de facto Bad Actor. Pac’s camp balks at blood tests and is rightly being very careful about weight because he is undersized in this match up. At different times both sides have pushed for the fight and begged off because they have not both NEEDED the fight equally at the same time.
Regards,
Robert A [/quote]
I agree with your well made point, but to the vast majority it seems that the majority of the posturing and stalling to make this fight happen has come from the Mayweather camp. Possibly if he kept his mouth shut and flew under the radar, less criticism would be thrown at him, but he boasts and acts like he’s the shitz which only magnify’s the situation.
Ali did the same, but there was always a smile, a hint of ‘this is me acting’ and everyone knew it (except Frazier who was tormented by the comments) and loved him for it. It was a great show for the audience, and he knew it, just as in professional wrestling. I mean just watch Ali and Cosell banter back n forth… priceless… Look at Mayweather, he blows a fuse, whereas the champs from the past never did, cuz they had very little, or nothing to hide. My 2 cents lol
[quote]Robert A wrote:
I see several are pointing to greats not “running” from fights. Thing is, they often do. Tyson pretty much ran from George Foreman. I know it looks weird, but Foreman’s comeback coincided with Tyson’s career. The story is Tyson was told by Cus D’Amato that Foreman’s style was a natural foil for him and that he couldn’t beat him. Tyson also had a fairly brief time at the top.
[/quote]
Tyson vs. Foreman
=
Frazier vs. Foreman.
D’Amato was a smart, smart, man.
[quote]
Ali is getting tossed around but there are plenty of stories about Ali or his supporters doing things outside the ring to prevent fighters from being their best. I am thinking specifically of the threats and antics against Liston and the delays and threats against Foreman.
Bowe threw a belt in the trash rather than fight Lennox Lewis. Holyfield did everything he could to avoid this match as well.
Basically, where is the line between ducking and simply smart matchmaking? I get that Mayweather is such an asshole outside the ring that people want any and all criticisms to stick. That does not mean that he is always the de facto Bad Actor. Pac’s camp balks at blood tests and is rightly being very careful about weight because he is undersized in this match up. At different times both sides have pushed for the fight and begged off because they have not both NEEDED the fight equally at the same time.
Regards,
Robert A [/quote]
Exactly.
[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I think it’s pretty safe to say that Ali fought all the contenders, same as Louis, same as Foreman, same as Hagler, Leonard and Hearns. These were times when ‘men’ were fighting, not businessmen.
[/quote]
Before Muhammud Ali, they fought who they were told to fight.
Look up Frankie Carbo.
Men were fighting, but the mob ran EVERYTHING.
-
Mayweather is “the shitz.”
-
You gotta read more about Ali. People thought he was raving madman before the Sonny Liston fight. It wasn’t until later that people realized that it was something of an act. But still, the purpose was to get under the other man’s skin, and Ali ALWAYS did that.
-
You should read more about the history of boxing. Fighters fight, and oftentimes they’re just as brutal and hard to get along with outside the ring.
Sonny Liston was WAY, WAY rougher than Floyd Mayweather, who people kind of roll their eyes at. Liston was a really bad man. Tyson as well. Also Foreman.
I don’t know where you’re getting this rosy view of boxing history from.
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Some of the shit posted in Pacquio’s defense is ridiculous. Taking a blood test doesn’t make one weaker for an entire week. I’ve taken several and was back to normal after a night of sleep. And, if Pac’s got nothing to hide, why not do it? I’m sure Mayweather would have no problem taking the same tests. It’s pretty obvious the Pacquio is juicing, and anyone who argues this doesn’t understand how the body works. You don’t magically gain the physical advantages that Pac has over the years.That’s not to say that Mayweather hasn’t touched the sauce, 'cause it wouldn’t surprise at all if he is/was. Most (if not all) at the highest level are on something, and to think otherwise is simply naive.[/quote]
So, you can gain muscle as a natural bodybuilder but not as a boxer?
Like I said, Pac only RECENTLY enlisted Ariza’s help for his strength and conditioning. You’re telling me, a 110lb 16 year old CAN NOT put on muscle mass as he fills out his frame AND with proper strength and conditioning which he previously have NOT used/done?
A regular skinny person can put on 20+lbs of muscle in 10 years but somehow Pac can’t without juicing?
Why can’t people accept the fact that Mayweather is running from PAC? Ali never ducked a fight, neither did Frazier, Tyson and certainly not Pacquiao.
Again, this guy has the nerve to defame someone’s legacy because he’s scared of the guy. Who is this guy to say, “oh he’s too good, he must be juicing.” Get the fuck outta here man.
Like Pac says after every fight, A fighter’s job is to fight. The Athletic Commission’s job is to test fighters, and have caught quite a few. The promoter sets up fights and the trainer gets the fighters ready.
This guy needs to stop running. Even Daniel Tosh’s gay ass took a punch from Pacquiao.[/quote]
Every time someone says Floyd is “scared” of Pac, I laugh.
132 fights.
126 victories.
Wins over Jose Luis Castillo (twice) and total demolitions of Chico Corrales, DeMarcus Corley, Emmanuel Augustus, Zab Judah, Carlos Baldomir, Arturo Gatti, Ricky Hatton, Oscar De La Hoya, Juan Manuel Marquez, Victor Ortiz, Shane Mosley.
Scared of Pacquaio?
C’monnnnnnnnnn.
How about, three years ago he woulda got 25 million for this fight. Now, its 60 million guaranteed.
The word is “smart,” not “scared.”
Before anyone else, including myself puts any more in this thread, Pac still has to get past Marquez first!
So I’ll wait til Saturday night when Pacs arms are raised and Larry Merchant hogs the camera to log on.
Make sure you’re logged on Irish! hahaha
[quote]fnf wrote:
Before anyone else, including myself puts any more in this thread, Pac still has to get past Marquez first!
So I’ll wait til Saturday night when Pacs arms are raised and Larry Merchant hogs the camera to log on.
Make sure you’re logged on Irish! hahaha[/quote]
Bahaha. We’ll see my friend.
As you can tell by my avatar, he’s pretty much my favorite active fighter.
VIVA MEXICO!!