T Nation

Help with Quads

I have my roots in powerlifting and my upper leg training has always been deep squats, never anything more. My quads are average to above average, developed from heavy squats. Two months ago I tore my groin on the upper end of the muscle. I may never be able to squat heavy again, certainly not in the next year. I went as far as to buy a leg extension/ leg curl machine to supplement leg training during my rehab.

Now here’s my problem; leg extensions are not doing shit for me. It’s a joke. I could literally run 5 miles the next day when previously I could barely get out of bed. High reps, low reps; nothing is like squatting. Does anyone have an idea how to at least keep what I got?

Is there any way you can do heavy single leg work? Or is that out of the question because of the injury?

I really like barbell reverse lunges.

Ben Bruno’s single leg training. He has a lot of challenging exercises you’ll still be able to load.

Implement prefatiguing, super sets, giant sets etc. That’s all you can really do.

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
I have my roots in powerlifting and my upper leg training has always been deep squats, never anything more. My quads are average to above average, developed from heavy squats. Two months ago I tore my groin on the upper end of the muscle. I may never be able to squat heavy again, certainly not in the next year. I went as far as to buy a leg extension/ leg curl machine to supplement leg training during my rehab.

Now here’s my problem; leg extensions are not doing shit for me. Itâ??s a joke. I could literally run 5 miles the next day when previously I could barely get out of bed. High reps, low reps; nothing is like squatting. Does anyone have an idea how to at least keep what I got?
[/quote]

Why are you so sure that you won’t be able to squat again? And for almost 2 years in that sense? I cannot understand this.

I’ve really enjoyed, and by enjoyed I mean been crippled by DOMS, doing split squats with the bar in a front squat position. YMMV, but these tend to keep my back nearly vertical, taking stress off of my hips and onto my quads/hamstrings.

I would suggest using straps to hold on to the bar as CT recommends, that seems to add some much appreciated stability.

Be careful of the heavy single leg recommendations. Your groin will have to do alot of stabilizing during single leg movements and it may not like that intially.

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
Ben Bruno’s single leg training. He has a lot of challenging exercises you’ll still be able to load.

Implement prefatiguing, super sets, giant sets etc. That’s all you can really do. [/quote]

I like the idea of prefatiguing and will give it a try on Saturday. I assume we are speaking about extensions and some form of squats? Any recommendations?

[quote]niksamaras wrote:

Why are you so sure that you won’t be able to squat again? And for almost 2 years in that sense? I cannot understand this.[/quote]

To answer your question; ever squat again meant heavy. I can still get on and of the shitter. It was a hard road back to where I was when I had the injury. No offence to anyone but reps with 225 isn’t going to do it for me. And at 47, I’m not sure how much is left in the tank.

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
Ben Bruno’s single leg training. He has a lot of challenging exercises you’ll still be able to load.

Implement prefatiguing, super sets, giant sets etc. That’s all you can really do. [/quote]

I like the idea of prefatiguing and will give it a try on Saturday. I assume we are speaking about extensions and some form of squats? Any recommendations?[/quote]

-Foam roll entire inner thigh area or do the entire Agile 8 warmup routine (depends how much you want to warm up)

-Static stretch adductor and abductor

-Prefatigue with leg extensions with your toes pointing in (activates the outer quads and should take some of the load off your groin during the next exercise)

It’s hard for me to confidently recommend any other specific exercises because you have to just try exercises, see what works, and adjust accordingly. I’ve had groin issues in the past and it felt a lot better when I squatted towards the end of leg workouts.

IMO, after that warmup, I’d do another accessory exercise just to get some more blood flowing and then do some type of squat.

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
-Prefatigue with leg extensions with your toes pointing in (activates the outer quads and should take some of the load off your groin during the next exercise)
[/quote]

I like it! Since you have been down this road, do you think the “toes in” will help with a full squat? I can do 1/2 squats that way.

Have you been to the doc? Was it a grade 1,2,or 3 tear? I had a grade two as a sophomore in high school (so that makes a little difference) but I had bounced back almost completely within 3 months. So even though that is a young still growing body, I would think that it could be done within a year. Maybe I am wrong but I think you will get back, just be patient.

Try this for leg extensions for some pain. BTW keep your legs and knees pressed together the whole time.

Lets say with start with 150. Train till failure on the concentric. Reps should be somewhere in the high teens with an emphasis on slowing down and flexing the muscle. Tempo should be 3/3/3. Rest 30 seconds repeat. Rest 30 seconds repeat.

Goto 110 pds and repeat just like before for 3 mini sets

Goto 80 pounds and repeat like before for 3 mini sets.

Good luck walking.

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:

[quote]Kakarat wrote:
-Prefatigue with leg extensions with your toes pointing in (activates the outer quads and should take some of the load off your groin during the next exercise)
[/quote]

I like it! Since you have been down this road, do you think the “toes in” will help with a full squat? I can do 1/2 squats that way.[/quote]

No, the knees essentially track in the direction you point your toes while squatting. IMO you’d run in to problems squatting that way.

I never had a problem developing quadriceps but I do respond well to leg extensions. High rep drop sets really help getting a pump whereas your lower back my give out before getting a good pump doing squats.

You can also try doing region specific quad training on a hack squat or leg extension. It has to do with how you place or roll your knees.

Knees driven out = vastus medialis

knees rolled pigeon toe or kept close = vastus lateralus

Keeping hips extended as in a sissy squat = sartorius (teardrop) [ you can do this on leg extension provided your seat can go far back

CT had an article describing these ideas and though I dont really nut jockey other people protocols around here I liked this one.

Read up on Meadows leg training article http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/enormous_and_strong_legs_the_mountain_dog_way

Thanks everyone for the ideas! I gotta throw out the massive rep one, I can’t take the burn. lol

If you tore a groin muscle then I assume you normally squat with a wide stance. Have you tried close stance on squats? Even front squats? The reason I ask, is that I never feel my groin unless I go outside shoulder width.

[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
If you tore a groin muscle then I assume you normally squat with a wide stance. Have you tried close stance on squats? Even front squats? The reason I ask, is that I never feel my groin unless I go outside shoulder width. [/quote]

For a powerlifter, my stance is narrow, a bit wider than shoulder width. I agree bring it in will take the stress off of the groin along with not going so deep which is where it tore.

I did post this pick here in the Injuries and Rehab Forum. I video tape some of my heavy sets from time to time to check my depth. I extracted the pick from the video so I apologies for its quality. The injury happened about 9" up from the bottom.

[quote]doublelung84 wrote:
Thanks everyone for the ideas! I gotta throw out the massive rep one, I can’t take the burn. lol[/quote]

Come on brah it is all about the burn!

But sadly I have no help for you with your injury other than to take it easy and light until it heals and then gradually work back into it.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

Come on brah it is all about the burn! [/quote]

Ya, it burned like he’ll when I ripped it, lol! Ouch, still hurts to laugh.