[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
What will the GOP do with it? Blow it. .[/quote]
Yup, like always… Snatch defeat from the hands of victory.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Demand right-wing purity in a world increasingly full of citizens with mixed politics and less partisanship. Instead of learning from the mistakes of the Democrats, they are going to mirror them and even do worse.[/quote]
I would love to see the right be pro-gay and pro-choice because it’s such stupid thing to get killed for in the elections. Both those issues do nothing but serve as a distraction for things which actually matter.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Demand right-wing purity in a world increasingly full of citizens with mixed politics and less partisanship. Instead of learning from the mistakes of the Democrats, they are going to mirror them and even do worse.[/quote]
I would love to see the right be pro-gay and pro-choice because it’s such stupid thing to get killed for in the elections. Both those issues do nothing but serve as a distraction for things which actually matter. [/quote]
I’m pretty sure life matters…
[quote]Aggv wrote:
I would love to see the right be pro-gay and pro-choice because it’s such stupid thing to get killed for in the elections. Both those issues do nothing but serve as a distraction for things which actually matter. [/quote]
Christian Republicans will probably disagree with you on this.
Which I find to be the key problem the Republican party has today. The conflict between fiscal and social conservatives.
I’m pretty sure a lot of Americans wouldn’t mind fiscal conservatism, provided that it’s presented right and doesn’t immediately devolve into a “You’re trying to cut funding for X because you hate blacks and poor people!” (which I think occurs only because people think of social conservatives honestly)
But social conservatism is a bit of a lost cause at this point. If nothing else than because it doesn’t work at all with the core tenets of the U.S.
[quote]magick wrote:
But social conservatism is a bit of a lost cause at this point. If nothing else than because many of its beliefs doesn’t work at all with the core tenets of the U.S.[/quote]
Really, because I feel like being pro-life falls right in line with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness if that’s what you mean?
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Really, because I feel like being pro-life falls right in line with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness if that’s what you mean? [/quote]
The issue is almost entirely about whether the fetus can be considered a separate, legal entity or not.
Virtually all pro-abortion folks I talked to argued that the fetus is NOT a separate, legal entity, and as such as no rights that can be violated. As such, any laws that ban abortion is infringing on the rights of the woman carrying the fetus.
Obviously Christians disagree with this notion.
So, to solve this debate, you need to solve the issue of whether a fetus is a separate, legal entity or not.
Train is starting to come off the tracks. Incoming derail.
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
I would love to see the right be pro-gay and pro-choice because it’s such stupid thing to get killed for in the elections. Both those issues do nothing but serve as a distraction for things which actually matter. [/quote]
Christian Republicans will probably disagree with you on this.
Which I find to be the key problem the Republican party has today. The conflict between fiscal and social conservatives.
I’m pretty sure a lot of Americans wouldn’t mind fiscal conservatism, provided that it’s presented right and doesn’t immediately devolve into a “You’re trying to cut funding for X because you hate blacks and poor people!” (which I think occurs only because people think of social conservatives honestly)
But social conservatism is a bit of a lost cause at this point. If nothing else than because it doesn’t work at all with the core tenets of the U.S.[/quote]
Republicans need to use the Liberal rhetoric against them. For example, if raising the minimum wage creates jobs, stimulates the economy, gets people off the dole, etc…then compliment it with less welfare spending. Remember, this is THEIR argument, should they argue it, they would be hypocritical of themselves.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
But social conservatism is a bit of a lost cause at this point. If nothing else than because many of its beliefs doesn’t work at all with the core tenets of the U.S.[/quote]
Really, because I feel like being pro-life falls right in line with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness if that’s what you mean? [/quote]
These two posts perfectly illustrate why the abortion debate is great for government. Do we protect the life of the unborn or the liberty of the born? It’s an unanswerable question.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Problem is - this “system” will continue until “conservatives” start ignoring the demagogues and start demanding legit candidates from the ranks.[/quote]
An orthodox conservative will have a difficult time being accepted into either of the Parties as they exist today. [/quote]
For instance?[/quote]
That’s the ‘rub’ isn’t it Push. People with those qualities don’t gravitate toward politics. Why should they put themselves through the ‘grinder’ when they can do just as well for themselves; or better remaining in the private sector.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]BlueCollarTr8n wrote:
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Problem is - this “system” will continue until “conservatives” start ignoring the demagogues and start demanding legit candidates from the ranks.[/quote]
An orthodox conservative will have a difficult time being accepted into either of the Parties as they exist today. [/quote]
I personally think conservatives need to split off into their own party (or two parties). [/quote]
The barriers that have been created by the major parties make something like this an incredible challange…I suspect it would take several generations to get any traction.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Train is starting to come off the tracks. Incoming derail.[/quote]
PULL UP!! PULL UP!!
[quote]magick wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Really, because I feel like being pro-life falls right in line with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness if that’s what you mean? [/quote]
The issue is almost entirely about whether the fetus can be considered a separate, legal entity or not.
Virtually all pro-abortion folks I talked to argued that the fetus is NOT a separate, legal entity, and as such as no rights that can be violated. As such, any laws that ban abortion is infringing on the rights of the woman carrying the fetus.
Obviously Christians disagree with this notion.
So, to solve this debate, you need to solve the issue of whether a fetus is a separate, legal entity or not.[/quote]
I will refrain from engaging in yet another abortion discussion. However, I will say that this, “So, to solve this debate, you need to solve the issue of whether a fetus is a separate, legal entity or not.” is exactly why the issue matters and why if the answer is yes a fetus is a separate entity then it absolutely is in line with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
I’ve no idea how this is a debate at all, but again, I’ll refrain.
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]magick wrote:
But social conservatism is a bit of a lost cause at this point. If nothing else than because many of its beliefs doesn’t work at all with the core tenets of the U.S.[/quote]
Really, because I feel like being pro-life falls right in line with life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness if that’s what you mean? [/quote]
These two posts perfectly illustrate why the abortion debate is great for government. Do we protect the life of the unborn or the liberty of the born? It’s an unanswerable question.[/quote]
Imo, there is no debate. Abortion eliminates life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. If it does any of those things to the mother or father (debatable) it is almost universally by their choosing and worst case only temporarily affects liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
3 out of 3 forever
or
2 out of 3 temporarily
It’s not entirely up to me though.
[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Train is starting to come off the tracks. Incoming derail.[/quote]
Sorry