[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Growing up Roman Catholic, I always had a difficulty reconciling the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus. I know this isn’t just me, for this inconsistency was noticed extremely early in the history of the church. Marcion of Sinope was the first Christian who pointed out this apparent difference. A long line of heretics followed his path, notably the gnostic movement. Eventually, they were squashed, but their writings have been retained in discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library. I have been catechized, attended Catholic school for 16 years, and still practice. To this day I cannot help but notice that OT God (YHWH) and Christ didn’t seem to match with their messages. I have done plenty of research regarding this matter. As much as I cannot stand Atheists, I understand their concern when they point out the rather bizaare behavior of YHWH, who seems to be rather petty and angry in the narratives of the old testament. Here are some examples/food for thought
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Jesus didn’t use the Tetragrammaton (the Holy name of God) because Jesus was an observant Jew. Jews didn’t pronounce the Tetragrammaton except by the High Priest, in the Holy Temple.
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Go actually read the Old Testament. God was EXTREMELY forgiving and VERY SLOW to anger. For example, he gave Pharoah 20 chances, slowly increased severity of things before moving on.
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I am Catholic (and a bad one at that) and anyone who sat through confirmation clas
ses for communion would not espouse the crap you have posted.[/quote]
First, Jesus was not a jew. If you are excommunicated from the Catholic church, then you are no longer a catholic. Jesus was put on trial for heresy/blasphemy, therefore excommunicated. Recall, there was not one type of “Jew.” Like christianity today, there were sects of Judaism. If you read your gospels, you’ll notice the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and Essenes had extremely diverse points of view. John the Baptist was likely an Essene. Like jesus, this man was committing blasphemy [according to mosaic law] so the high priests had it out for him since the start of his ministry. To say Jesus was a Jew is misleading because I don’t know if you mean he was a Semite or you he was a follower of the Law/mishnah. I agree he had semitic blood.
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There is no formal removal of Judaism in mosaic law. Jesus was a Jew, they could kill him, but they could not make him not a Jew. Likewise, being excommunicated does not make you ‘not Catholic’. It simply means that you was out of communion with the Church and cannot participate in the sacraments. The only way to cease being Catholic is by choice.
Wow! First, Jesus said to forgive your neighbor ‘Seventy time seven times’. Second, he did very much punish David when he sinned, he killed his son for his sins and let him know it to boot.
And this is what I mean when I say that you didn’t read the bible. Where in hell did you get that God punishes the innocents, and never the bad guys? Seriously? God didn’t take his admonitions lightly, in the OT. The Chaldeans, the Assyrians? You know, they practiced child sacrifice and did lots of abominable shit, you saying God didn’t punish them?
I am curious where you where you got this stuff that God punished the innocents in the OT and not the guilty.
Correct, as well as science and all the stuff of education.
Being out of communion of the Church also means you cannot receive the Sacraments until that excommunication is uplifted. Now you cannot be a Catholic and excommunicated. These are mutually exclusive. Why? Because the only things you can do to get excommunicated are extremely serious crimes against humanity and heresy. So when you say “The only way to cease being Catholic is by choice” then your choice was to be excommunicated by doing the act that caused you to be excommunicated. By doing these acts, you are openly stating you are not Catholic, this is why you are excommunicated.
I clearly said Jesus says to forgive “more than twenty times”. I know he said 77 times 7. I used the term “more than twenty” because of the claim that God gave pharoh “twenty chances”. 77 times 7 is also more than twenty times. This is my point. Obviously, Jesus means you should forgive your neighbor indefinitely. But it didn’t seem like the OT God did this. He saw evil, and then used his “chosen people” to execute evil against those people. This is opposed to Christ’s message. Your curious on where God punishes the innocent in the OT? You just gave an example. DAVID did something bad so God killed his INNOCENT SON. He punished his innocent son through an excruciating death that lasted for several days. Seems opposite of Jesus