Yahweh: Exclusively the Jewish God?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

Yes, we should jump through hoops for every one of your folks’ alt-identities. And I’m flat convinced one of you made up this particular one. The multi-bible verse copy and paste posts have simply gotten old. “Explain the relationship of the old and new covenants and testaments, of the hebrews and God, of the gentiles and God, the law, the fulfillment of the law…here’s a bunch of verses, get to it.” We read our bibles, attend our sermons/homilies, read our theologians, etc. It’s the internet age, do you own research. You’ll even find older posts back when this stuff was actually entertained on this forum. I personally am not swayed by YOUR bluff into engaging someone’s fictional identity.[/quote]

This definitely isn’t me. I am part Jewish. I would never espouse this.

42

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I am being deliberately vague to see what you know. [/quote]

Yeah, but don’t try doing the same thing to Pat, or he’ll throw a hissy fit. [/quote]

Dumb != vague. Don’t asked ridiculous questions based on a book you never read and there will be no issues.[/quote]

If I told you that I worship an invisible, all powerful guy who has commanded others to kill for him, would you NOT want to know if I would do the same? No, I guess that’s a dumb question, seeing as it’s literally a case of “life or death” and all…

But by all means, don’t let reason get in the way of your hissy fit.

43

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
I am being deliberately vague to see what you know. [/quote]

Yeah, but don’t try doing the same thing to Pat, or he’ll throw a hissy fit. [/quote]

Dumb != vague. Don’t asked ridiculous questions based on a book you never read and there will be no issues.[/quote]

If I told you that I worship an invisible, all powerful guy who has commanded others to kill for him, would you NOT want to know if I would do the same? No, I guess that’s a dumb question, seeing as it’s literally a case of “life or death” and all…

But by all means, don’t let reason get in the way of your hissy fit. [/quote]

And you consider that ^^ diatribe as based in “reason”? LOL!!

I don’t believe in invisible people with authority. Told you you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.

44

[quote]pat wrote:
And you consider that ^^ diatribe as based in “reason”? LOL!!

I don’t believe in invisible people with authority. Told you you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. [/quote]

Lol, yeah I guess it is pretty silly to wonder if the people around you whom worship a being that, at several times, demanded its followers to kill would, themselves, kill if they thought he ordered it.

… Oh wait, that’s completely reasonable. Never mind then.

Which part of what I said doesn’t apply to God? The invisible part, or the authority part? Because I can’t see him, so he is invisible and according to you he is the highest authority, sooooo… what’s the problem, Pat?

45

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
And you consider that ^^ diatribe as based in “reason”? LOL!!

I don’t believe in invisible people with authority. Told you you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. [/quote]

Lol, yeah I guess it is pretty silly to wonder if the people around you whom worship a being that, at several times, demanded its followers to kill would, themselves, kill if they thought he ordered it.

… Oh wait, that’s completely reasonable. Never mind then.

Which part of what I said doesn’t apply to God? The invisible part, or the authority part? Because I can’t see him, so he is invisible and according to you he is the highest authority, sooooo… what’s the problem, Pat?[/quote]

HA! I didn’t even answer your question and you still couldn’t help yourself. This is why I won’t discuss scriptures with atheists who didn’t even read the book. Atheist hold the world record for murder so don’t get your dick all hard. You don’t know the Bible, and you don’t know religion so it may be prudent to shut the fuck up about things you don’t know about.

And speaking of things that don’t exist, you still never made an argument.

Because it’s more reasonable to think that nothing creates something… Tell me how that works? First nothing, then something…

46

[quote]Oleena wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

Yes, we should jump through hoops for every one of your folks’ alt-identities. And I’m flat convinced one of you made up this particular one. The multi-bible verse copy and paste posts have simply gotten old. “Explain the relationship of the old and new covenants and testaments, of the hebrews and God, of the gentiles and God, the law, the fulfillment of the law…here’s a bunch of verses, get to it.” We read our bibles, attend our sermons/homilies, read our theologians, etc. It’s the internet age, do you own research. You’ll even find older posts back when this stuff was actually entertained on this forum. I personally am not swayed by YOUR bluff into engaging someone’s fictional identity.[/quote]

This definitely isn’t me. I am part Jewish. I would never espouse this.
[/quote]

What do you care if your Jewish, your more atheist.

47

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:
And you consider that ^^ diatribe as based in “reason”? LOL!!

I don’t believe in invisible people with authority. Told you you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. [/quote]

Lol, yeah I guess it is pretty silly to wonder if the people around you whom worship a being that, at several times, demanded its followers to kill would, themselves, kill if they thought he ordered it.

… Oh wait, that’s completely reasonable. Never mind then.

Which part of what I said doesn’t apply to God? The invisible part, or the authority part? Because I can’t see him, so he is invisible and according to you he is the highest authority, sooooo… what’s the problem, Pat?[/quote]

HA! I didn’t even answer your question and you still couldn’t help yourself. This is why I won’t discuss scriptures with atheists who didn’t even read the book. Atheist hold the world record for murder so don’t get your dick all hard. You don’t know the Bible, and you don’t know religion so it may be prudent to shut the fuck up about things you don’t know about.

And speaking of things that don’t exist, you still never made an argument.

Because it’s more reasonable to think that nothing creates something… Tell me how that works? First nothing, then something…[/quote]

48

and

49

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
and

I have seen this and I have actually spoken to Dr. Krauss about this very issue.I still have the email actually. No where does he says it comes from nothing. He says there is always something there, and QM is a something as well. So if QM demands something then that’s not something from nothing. What he posits is that things seeming happen in a vacuum which is not the same as something from nothing in the philosophical sense. Nice try though. Go ahead and fast forward to the part where he talks about QM demanding that something come from nothing, with in the same breath, he says it comes from something. There is never a case where there is nothing.

50

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
What I never understood was why is the Holocaust considered such a big deal…[/quote]

Seriously?

I am sensing a thinly veiled anti-Christian sentiment from this fella all dressed up and a Christian, but dragging out the same old, tired atheist talking points that I here over and over again. Why don’t just post a link to infidels.org or something, it’d be faster than acting like a Christian. You seem to have a child’s grip on the faith, at best.

I am going to go ahead and call bullshit on your “Catholicism”. [/quote]\

Look just so you don’t suppose i’m lying, I am a catholic, and therefore think that Jesus is the savior and the only way to salvation. I simply came across texts I found that didn’t seem to match The Christ’s message, so I thought there was room for discussion. Even so, God loves the atheists and christians equally you know.

51

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.[/quote]

The scriptures aren’t one text. They are MAny, stretched out over a loooooong time. There are also oral traditions that aren’t written down in scripture. The scriptures also were not written in english. alot of things are not answered in scripture. I have actually read the scriptures that’s how i found these verses. You apparently have not.

52

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.[/quote]

The scriptures aren’t one text. They are MAny, stretched out over a loooooong time. There are also oral traditions that aren’t written down in scripture. The scriptures also were not written in english. alot of things are not answered in scripture. I have actually read the scriptures that’s how i found these verses. You apparently have not.[/quote]

I have my doubts, when somebody takes on an alternate identity, about their sincerity. I have also seen this same topic with the same versus talked about in the same way on atheist propaganda websites. So if you did come up with this all on your own with the utmost sincerity, fine. I apologize, but I doubt I am far off the mark if at all.

There has been a fresh crop of disingenuousness on this forum lately, so I have my guard up.

53

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Growing up Roman Catholic, I always had a difficulty reconciling the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus. I know this isn’t just me, for this inconsistency was noticed extremely early in the history of the church. Marcion of Sinope was the first Christian who pointed out this apparent difference. A long line of heretics followed his path, notably the gnostic movement. Eventually, they were squashed, but their writings have been retained in discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library. I have been catechized, attended Catholic school for 16 years, and still practice. To this day I cannot help but notice that OT God (YHWH) and Christ didn’t seem to match with their messages. I have done plenty of research regarding this matter. As much as I cannot stand Atheists, I understand their concern when they point out the rather bizaare behavior of YHWH, who seems to be rather petty and angry in the narratives of the old testament. Here are some examples/food for thought

[/quote]

  1. Jesus didn’t use the Tetragrammaton (the Holy name of God) because Jesus was an observant Jew. Jews didn’t pronounce the Tetragrammaton except by the High Priest, in the Holy Temple.

  2. Go actually read the Old Testament. God was EXTREMELY forgiving and VERY SLOW to anger. For example, he gave Pharoah 20 chances, slowly increased severity of things before moving on.

  3. I am Catholic (and a bad one at that) and anyone who sat through confirmation clas
    ses for communion would not espouse the crap you have posted.[/quote]

First, Jesus was not a jew. If you are excommunicated from the Catholic church, then you are no longer a catholic. Jesus was put on trial for heresy/blasphemy, therefore excommunicated. Recall, there was not one type of “Jew.” Like christianity today, there were sects of Judaism. If you read your gospels, you’ll notice the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and Essenes had extremely diverse points of view. John the Baptist was likely an Essene. Like jesus, this man was committing blasphemy [according to mosaic law] so the high priests had it out for him since the start of his ministry. To say Jesus was a Jew is misleading because I don’t know if you mean he was a Semite or you he was a follower of the Law/mishnah. I agree he had semitic blood.

Second, Jesus says to forgive your neighbor more than twenty times. It also does not follow that an all powerful God would not just take them out himself, without all the violent acts. Have you not noticed that that God seems to punish the innocents and not the guilty? King David committed every sin possible ad God never layed a hand on him. Instead, he slayed the innocents.

Thirdly, catholicsm has always proclaimed that we need to use our reason as well. You obviously didnt pay attention in your class. Remember, Catholics see knowledge and wisdom as gifts of the Holy Spirit.

â??Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart the desire to know the truth â?? in a word, to know himself â?? so that by knowing and loving God, men and women can come to the fullness of the truth about themselvesâ?? (n. 1). With these words Pope John Paul II begins the encyclical, Fides et Ratio. Some 12 years in the making, it is the first encyclical on the relationship between faith and reason since Pope Leo XIII issued Aeterni Patris in 1879.

54

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.[/quote]

The scriptures aren’t one text. They are MAny, stretched out over a loooooong time. There are also oral traditions that aren’t written down in scripture. The scriptures also were not written in english. alot of things are not answered in scripture. I have actually read the scriptures that’s how i found these verses. You apparently have not.[/quote]

I have my doubts, when somebody takes on an alternate identity, about their sincerity. I have also seen this same topic with the same versus talked about in the same way on atheist propaganda websites. So if you did come up with this all on your own with the utmost sincerity, fine. I apologize, but I doubt I am far off the mark if at all.

There has been a fresh crop of disingenuousness on this forum lately, so I have my guard up.[/quote]

Remember I’m not trying to trash God. I just pointing out questions every christian who reads their scriptures wonders. with dawkins and new atheists completely slandering God, we as christians need to be able to answer these questions. Recall that when satan tempted christ in the desert, he quoted scripture to justify his demands. atheists do the same today. They quote our scripture and bastardize it. So I am looking for answers everywhere i go. You never know who has them.

55

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.[/quote]

The scriptures aren’t one text. They are MAny, stretched out over a loooooong time. There are also oral traditions that aren’t written down in scripture. The scriptures also were not written in english. alot of things are not answered in scripture. I have actually read the scriptures that’s how i found these verses. You apparently have not.[/quote]

I have my doubts, when somebody takes on an alternate identity, about their sincerity. I have also seen this same topic with the same versus talked about in the same way on atheist propaganda websites. So if you did come up with this all on your own with the utmost sincerity, fine. I apologize, but I doubt I am far off the mark if at all.

There has been a fresh crop of disingenuousness on this forum lately, so I have my guard up.[/quote]

Remember I’m not trying to trash God. I just pointing out questions every christian who reads their scriptures wonders. with dawkins and new atheists completely slandering God, we as christians need to be able to answer these questions. Recall that when satan tempted christ in the desert, he quoted scripture to justify his demands. atheists do the same today. They quote our scripture and bastardize it. So I am looking for answers everywhere i go. You never know who has them. [/quote]

Okay, I’ll play then. But I am not going to go into mind numbing details about said scripture passages mainly because that’s a ton of work, and this is just a forum, so it’s not worth it.

I think the best way to tackle the issues is to look at the problem of evil. Why is there evil, what does God let evil happen. So let’s take an example of the Somali situation that’s going on right now. Currently, you have there roving militias running around, the will fire bomb entire towns, killing entire populations. Who they do not kill they rape, even little children, and torture. People who are that morally degredated aren’t likely to change, nor do they deserve the chance. Would you agree? If you had the power to do anything to one of these groups and it was your responsibility to deliver justice what would you do to them? What do you think should happen to them?

56

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.[/quote]

The scriptures aren’t one text. They are MAny, stretched out over a loooooong time. There are also oral traditions that aren’t written down in scripture. The scriptures also were not written in english. alot of things are not answered in scripture. I have actually read the scriptures that’s how i found these verses. You apparently have not.[/quote]

I have my doubts, when somebody takes on an alternate identity, about their sincerity. I have also seen this same topic with the same versus talked about in the same way on atheist propaganda websites. So if you did come up with this all on your own with the utmost sincerity, fine. I apologize, but I doubt I am far off the mark if at all.

There has been a fresh crop of disingenuousness on this forum lately, so I have my guard up.[/quote]

Remember I’m not trying to trash God. I just pointing out questions every christian who reads their scriptures wonders. with dawkins and new atheists completely slandering God, we as christians need to be able to answer these questions. Recall that when satan tempted christ in the desert, he quoted scripture to justify his demands. atheists do the same today. They quote our scripture and bastardize it. So I am looking for answers everywhere i go. You never know who has them. [/quote]

Okay, I’ll play then. But I am not going to go into mind numbing details about said scripture passages mainly because that’s a ton of work, and this is just a forum, so it’s not worth it.

I think the best way to tackle the issues is to look at the problem of evil. Why is there evil, what does God let evil happen. So let’s take an example of the Somali situation that’s going on right now. Currently, you have there roving militias running around, the will fire bomb entire towns, killing entire populations. Who they do not kill they rape, even little children, and torture. People who are that morally degredated aren’t likely to change, nor do they deserve the chance. Would you agree? If you had the power to do anything to one of these groups and it was your responsibility to deliver justice what would you do to them? What do you think should happen to them?[/quote]

I would say that this world is still the devil’s territory. I would say that God wants us to love him. He also allows us to not love him, just like he allowed the devil not to love him. I would say the devil is at work because his time is short. The savior’s kingdom is not of this world. Everyone deserves a chance because we are all murderers, liars, adulterers,etc. The savior’s sermon on the mount even addressed that we already sin if our intention is evil, even if we have not done the act. Jesus’ sacrifice was not to completely hault evil in this world because this world is still satan’s until the end. His sacrifice was to free us from this world and prepare us for the next. So as horrifying as all the evil is, all the innocents who die still have eternal happiness to look forward to. make no mistake, even people who call themselves atheists in this world can still look forward to salvation, but it is God’s elect who have to show them and lead through example. As St. Francis said, “Pray always, and if necessary use words”

58

[quote]pushharder wrote:
That “Jesus was not a Jew” explanation was pretty darn lame, butter knife.

yawn[/quote]

Tell me why? If you are going to say something is wrong, say why or you are just wasting time. What does Jew even mean? Is it someone who practices judaism? is it someone who has semitic roots? is it an israelite? is it a judean? The term “Jew” is actually a relatively new term. The people who crucified the Savior put i.n.r.i to mock him. There are people in this world who call anyone an anti-semite who are against Jews. Apparently, they think you can call yourself a “Jew” without having semite heritage. Ask yourself, how is someone an anti Semite if they speak out against people who aren’t semitic? It would compare to a Roman citizen saying that a protestant is “Anti-Roman” if they spoke out against catholicism. Judaism is a monotheistic religion with laws and doctrines. If a person is going to call themselves a “jew” then I assume they adhere to Judaism. You cannot have it two ways. How can the “Jews” claim that they are the chosen people? Is it simply because they say they are? Hitler’s people thought they were God’s chosen people too, like the Jews who were commanded not to corrupt their race through relations with other people, hitler commanded his people to do the same. Hitler and the God Jews claim as theirs wanted a pure race. Understand what “jew” means prior to making any stodgy remarks.

59

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Growing up Roman Catholic, I always had a difficulty reconciling the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus. I know this isn’t just me, for this inconsistency was noticed extremely early in the history of the church. Marcion of Sinope was the first Christian who pointed out this apparent difference. A long line of heretics followed his path, notably the gnostic movement. Eventually, they were squashed, but their writings have been retained in discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library. I have been catechized, attended Catholic school for 16 years, and still practice. To this day I cannot help but notice that OT God (YHWH) and Christ didn’t seem to match with their messages. I have done plenty of research regarding this matter. As much as I cannot stand Atheists, I understand their concern when they point out the rather bizaare behavior of YHWH, who seems to be rather petty and angry in the narratives of the old testament. Here are some examples/food for thought

[/quote]

  1. Jesus didn’t use the Tetragrammaton (the Holy name of God) because Jesus was an observant Jew. Jews didn’t pronounce the Tetragrammaton except by the High Priest, in the Holy Temple.

  2. Go actually read the Old Testament. God was EXTREMELY forgiving and VERY SLOW to anger. For example, he gave Pharoah 20 chances, slowly increased severity of things before moving on.

  3. I am Catholic (and a bad one at that) and anyone who sat through confirmation clas
    ses for communion would not espouse the crap you have posted.[/quote]

First, Jesus was not a jew. If you are excommunicated from the Catholic church, then you are no longer a catholic. Jesus was put on trial for heresy/blasphemy, therefore excommunicated. Recall, there was not one type of “Jew.” Like christianity today, there were sects of Judaism. If you read your gospels, you’ll notice the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and Essenes had extremely diverse points of view. John the Baptist was likely an Essene. Like jesus, this man was committing blasphemy [according to mosaic law] so the high priests had it out for him since the start of his ministry. To say Jesus was a Jew is misleading because I don’t know if you mean he was a Semite or you he was a follower of the Law/mishnah. I agree he had semitic blood.
[/quote]
There is no formal removal of Judaism in mosaic law. Jesus was a Jew, they could kill him, but they could not make him not a Jew. Likewise, being excommunicated does not make you ‘not Catholic’. It simply means that you was out of communion with the Church and cannot participate in the sacraments. The only way to cease being Catholic is by choice.

Wow! First, Jesus said to forgive your neighbor ‘Seventy time seven times’. Second, he did very much punish David when he sinned, he killed his son for his sins and let him know it to boot.
And this is what I mean when I say that you didn’t read the bible. Where in hell did you get that God punishes the innocents, and never the bad guys? Seriously? God didn’t take his admonitions lightly, in the OT. The Chaldeans, the Assyrians? You know, they practiced child sacrifice and did lots of abominable shit, you saying God didn’t punish them?

I am curious where you where you got this stuff that God punished the innocents in the OT and not the guilty.

Correct, as well as science and all the stuff of education.

[quote]
�¢??Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart the desire to know the truth �¢?? in a word, to know himself �¢?? so that by knowing and loving God, men and women can come to the fullness of the truth about themselves�¢?? (n. 1). With these words Pope John Paul II begins the encyclical, Fides et Ratio. Some 12 years in the making, it is the first encyclical on the relationship between faith and reason since Pope Leo XIII issued Aeterni Patris in 1879.[/quote]

60

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]fibroblaster wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]Oleena wrote:
So, just skimmed over the whole thread. Not ONE person has directly responded to ANY of the scriptural points brought up by this guy. Instead, they’ve all repeated the same lines “Haha. You’re ignorant. You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Look, if he is ignorant and you are better informed, then it should be EASY for you to DIRECTLY shoot down every one of his scriptural points.

Until I see someone do that, I’m going to assume you all are bluffing; you are just as mystified by his points as he is.[/quote]

When he or you, or anybody else for that matter actually read the Bible then we can talk about it. Many of the points are answered with in the book. Wanna know what it says? Read it.[/quote]

The scriptures aren’t one text. They are MAny, stretched out over a loooooong time. There are also oral traditions that aren’t written down in scripture. The scriptures also were not written in english. alot of things are not answered in scripture. I have actually read the scriptures that’s how i found these verses. You apparently have not.[/quote]

I have my doubts, when somebody takes on an alternate identity, about their sincerity. I have also seen this same topic with the same versus talked about in the same way on atheist propaganda websites. So if you did come up with this all on your own with the utmost sincerity, fine. I apologize, but I doubt I am far off the mark if at all.

There has been a fresh crop of disingenuousness on this forum lately, so I have my guard up.[/quote]

Remember I’m not trying to trash God. I just pointing out questions every christian who reads their scriptures wonders. with dawkins and new atheists completely slandering God, we as christians need to be able to answer these questions. Recall that when satan tempted christ in the desert, he quoted scripture to justify his demands. atheists do the same today. They quote our scripture and bastardize it. So I am looking for answers everywhere i go. You never know who has them. [/quote]

Okay, I’ll play then. But I am not going to go into mind numbing details about said scripture passages mainly because that’s a ton of work, and this is just a forum, so it’s not worth it.

I think the best way to tackle the issues is to look at the problem of evil. Why is there evil, what does God let evil happen. So let’s take an example of the Somali situation that’s going on right now. Currently, you have there roving militias running around, the will fire bomb entire towns, killing entire populations. Who they do not kill they rape, even little children, and torture. People who are that morally degredated aren’t likely to change, nor do they deserve the chance. Would you agree? If you had the power to do anything to one of these groups and it was your responsibility to deliver justice what would you do to them? What do you think should happen to them?[/quote]

I would say that this world is still the devil’s territory. I would say that God wants us to love him. He also allows us to not love him, just like he allowed the devil not to love him. I would say the devil is at work because his time is short. The savior’s kingdom is not of this world. Everyone deserves a chance because we are all murderers, liars, adulterers,etc. The savior’s sermon on the mount even addressed that we already sin if our intention is evil, even if we have not done the act. Jesus’ sacrifice was not to completely hault evil in this world because this world is still satan’s until the end. His sacrifice was to free us from this world and prepare us for the next. So as horrifying as all the evil is, all the innocents who die still have eternal happiness to look forward to. make no mistake, even people who call themselves atheists in this world can still look forward to salvation, but it is God’s elect who have to show them and lead through example. As St. Francis said, “Pray always, and if necessary use words”[/quote]

Huh? You went left, then south…Clearly Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t to stop evil in the world because if it were, it would have stopped. It was a huge turning point in the history of salvation. God gave us the job of doing his work, instead of getting some profits and handing down marching orders.
Keep in mind also that God is the creator and author of life. He made it, he can take it, but he doesn’t do it for fun or just randomly and he gives, many, many chances before he executes his judgement. My point was that in the past there were groups of people who did many horrible things, despite the warnings and the chances they were given. When God executes his judgement, it’s final.