Thats’s what I said lol.
Yes, really. Energy cannot be created or destroyed. If you can prove the contrary, there’s a Nobel prize waiting for you. Getting around basic physiology has nothing to do with anything.
This isn’t my argument. It’s yours. I disagreed with it, and thus the notion that emhanced nutrient utilization or partition would have any bearing on what we are discussing.
How would it not? Enhanced nutrient partitioning means in terms of recovery/reconstruction after micro trauma one can facillitate adequate recovery with less nutritional intake. This isn’t about a more/less energy argument, it’s about what the body can do with said energy.
How exactly would those in a catabolic state (AIDS, cancer etc) be able to gain weight when AAS alone is implemented? Absent of exercise, nutritional alteration… how does that work if “you need to be in a surplus”
Nope, my. argument is “in a deficit on AAS one can still gain LBM. Physiology is drastically altered, no longer does one need a caloric surplus to gain significant amounts of LBM”
Furthermore it’s been somewhat proven that despite a potential drop in scale weight, one can gain LBM and lose fat mass even as a natural athlete. The prior notion of “can’t gain muscle mass and lose fat” has been largely disproven via scientific literature
I agree with all of that. I’ve been speaking purely about scale weight the whole time haha.
I did it as a beginner at 17. Was small as hell 165 pounds on 6 foot frame. I lost wait till 150 lbs cause I thought I wasn’t lean enough. Then I started keto at 1900 kcals per day (clearly a deficit) and 6 days 2 hours training per week. I gained til 160 lbs on that regimen which was more than retarded. After 6 months I was depressed and over trained so hard that I couldn’t sleep and my nervous system was wrecked lol. Took me 3 months to get out and realize I probably should eat more and train less 
This didn’t happen though, sorry to tell you. You can’t gain 10lbs of stored energy while simultaneously dipping into your own energy stores to power yourself. “My gas tank filled up while I was driving.” That’s now how any of this works. Now, I belive your experience as for as your weight is correct, but by definition you were not in a caloric deficit.
Ya that was my point for begginers it’s easy and for somone first starting aas it easy.
Now I’m happy for 3lbs of muscle in a 1.5 gram cycle
I guess we can all agree to disagree this tread isn’t gonna go anywhere further productive.
Let’s focus on the OP shitting issue
I measured everything I ate with a scale and took the barcodes of everything except fruit and veggies and meat and the 1900-2000 kcal per day were accurate as can be because I was extremely obsessed with doing everything “right”. And I can’t see a normal healthy guy at 17 prime hormones, 6 times 2 hours training, where 2000 isn’t a deficit.
Read it too late haha, I agree
You can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. What you can’t do is store energy in a system that’s currently experiencing a net loss of energy. Thats literally a contradiction. Please try to understand.
I do. Basic thermodynamics is not difficult. Just told my experience. Don’t know how it worked or what was happening. Maybe my metabolism shut down so hard that I was in a surplus.
Thanks dude. I’m all good. Took some imodium and backed off the winny to 20mg for a day. Back up to 40mg now without issue. Will try at 50mg and stick at that level if all goes well.
You guys can continue talking about how 2-1=3 if you want. Anyone gaining total body weight while they think they’re in a caloric deficit has probably just done their calorie sums wrong.
It’s not all muscle vs fat. And there is all sorts of body fat including visceral fat that can be lost but not noticed while gaining new muscle fibers. New muscle fibers can be grown in a deficit on AAS or natural.
Yes. You just can’t gain weight while eating a caloric deficit. That defies physics.
Not true at all
yes it is. nana poopy back at you.
You think it’s impossible to build in a deficit? This isn’t even a point of contention dude. There is no ongoing argument about this. The evidence is already there. Yeah you can’t break thermodynamics but it doesn’t oppose thermodynamics.
No, I don’t think it’s impossible to build muscle. I said it’s impossible to gain weight. Learn to read.
Depends on what you’re talking about.
Eat in a caloric deficit… Take 100mg dbol/day, you’ll gain a few kilograms (acutely) from all that glycogen, electrolyte retention etc… That’s weight gain