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Winny Giving Me the Sh*ts

Hi all,
Long time reader, first time poster.

I’m half way through a short cycle, just added in Winny and have the shits pretty bad! Any ideas for controlling this? Or is there something else I’m doing thats causing it?
My cycle is planned to be 8 weeks, currently in week 5. I gave my liver a few days rest between DBol and Winny.
Weeks 1-4: 600mg/week Test E + 90mg DBol ED.
Weeks 5-6 500mg/week Test E + 300mg/week Tren E + 60mg Winny ED + Cardarine.
Weeks 7-8 Same as 5-6 but with 400mg/week Tren E.

Started Tren half way through as I had too much going on with work/study/life to deal with sides in W1-4. It’s my first tren cycle so wanted to play it cautious.
I’m taking cardiotone, creatine and liver support every day. Vit D/E, and Zinc E3D.
Will start caber next week if needed and have a proper PCT dialled in.

I’ve never used winny before, always have had anavar in the last 4 weeks of a cycle and never had an issue. Decided to up the ante a bit with winny this time but 4 days in and I’m considering dropping it, or dropping the dose way down.
I’m 39 and otherwise healthy.
Thanks in advance!

Treat it like you would treat diarrhoea from anything else.

That would include stopping taking whatever is causing it…

Drop the cardarine.

Take some pepto or imoddium

But I have to ask why dbol at 90mg/day

Also why would you use tren E for 2 weeks that’s pointless

Never mind I just saw you started earlier. But I’d still suggest tren a.

This looks like your attempting a bulk/cut in a 8 week period. Otherwise winny is pointless IMO. And I’d also suggest not doing a bulk/cut in the same cycle especially a 8 week cycle. I’d drop the winny just keep bulking.

This is just my opinion

And that’s not really a “rest” especially when using dbol at 90mg/day. Why not lower the dbol dose stay on it and drop the winny.

Sorry for the sporatic layout of my post had thoughts come to me as I was typing and re reading your post and cycle

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Thanks zeek.

Yeah its a bit of a weird cycle. I would normally go 13 weeks, with a 5-6 week break from the orals in the middle. On this cycle I can only be on for 8 weeks due to some upcoming travel so I’m pushing it a bit. After this cycle I need to be off for a full 6 months so don’t mind pushing the liver/lipids/BP a little.
Funny story re the 90mg of DBol. Basically I dosed at that level because I’m an idiot. I thought I had 10mg caps and was taking 3/day. Every oral I’ve had from that brand is 10mg caps. In week 3 I realised they are 30mg caps… because it’s written right there on the bottle I was picking up 3 times a day… I survived.

I’ve dropped the Cardamine today. I don’t think thats the problem but I don’t really need it on the low tren dose so will see how I go. I think I’ll try a really low dose of winny for a few more days and see if my guts settle down. I have a couple of minor injuries so winny was the plan for those, and I also find I can keep 95-100% of my gains when I use anavar for the last 3-4 weeks of a cycle, thought I’d try winny for the same purpose. If the low dose (10-20mg) is still causing me issues I’ll go back on the Dbol as you suggest, but at 30mg/day. I do need to cut at some point this year, I guess I’ll up the cardio!

Best time to cut IMO is on a cruise. Or if you pct wait until your fully recovered and cut slowly. Unless your a competitive bodybuilder using aas to cut really is a waste of money and drugs.

True, 200mg test weekly (statistically enough to get one to about a cavg of 1500ng/dl) is enough to preserve muscle on a cut and perhaps even allow one to gain a pound or two whilst in a slight deficit

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Rephrase. You can’t gain weight in a caloric deficit. Recomp is one thing, but you need a net gain in energy to gain weight (tissue). If you are in a caloric deficit, then by definition you have a net loss.

Not on AAS, I’ll link data showcasing even natural athletes can gain 1-2 lbs of LBM in a caloric deficit. When you alter physiology by administering 10-20x the dose of hormones required for natural physiology, increase net protein synthesis 50 fold, increase nutrient partitioning etc… You can gain on a deficit…

Take a guy who trains, has never used gear. Put him on

500mg tren
500mg test
50mg anadrol

(very strong cycle)

Let him eat in a caloric deficit of 500 cals, he WILL gain, the scale will budge. You may disagree with me, but many vastly underestimate just how strong these drugs are. Add in AAS, and rules that generally apply to the avg individual no longer apply

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No. This is just wrong. Unless you count pure water as LBM, which frankly, no one cares about.

I’m on all three of those compounds right now, albeit at lower doses. I’ve been trying to recomp and maintain my body weight. Started the cycle at 205. I’ve been up as high as 211 on days when I ate good, but as of today, 2 months into the cycle, I’m 207.5.

Agree to disagree… when you’re on body makes extra use of every single nutrient you put in… Amino acids aren’t broken down nearly as much, AR binding within skeletal muscle dramatically enhances gene expression etc… you can gain LBM in a deficit. You’re constantly in a state of anabolism regardless of nutritional deficit

Data indicates within sick people (ailment inducing the wasting of skeletal muscle), being sedentary + AAS still allows for an increase in LEAN mass, not fat free mass… but LEAN muscle mass

As a matter of fact

Increased LBM, lowered fat mass… in a deficit… for natural athletes. I can link 3-4 more of these studies… combine that with a fat cycle and the results can be substantial

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How old are you?

Even in that study, the athletes lost significantly more fat mass than they gained in lean mass… so an overall net loss of weight on the scale.

In his first post he said

I think he was talking about muscle at first, correct me if I’m wrong unreal. But I’d have to agree with unreal nonetheless, it clearly depends on the deficit but in the right circumstances one could lose a pound of fat and gain 1.2 pounds of muscle for example. AAS increase the rate at which proteins are assembled enormously which could lead to a net gain if on top nutrients are used more efficiently (could argue that then it wouldn’t be a real deficit, maybe yes)

Yes, I was referring to muscle. Though

This is also the case.

I second this iv gained weight in a deficit on aas.

Also iv seen nebies gain lean mass on a deficit.

These days it would be pretty hard but it’s possible

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You can’t get around basic thermodynamics. Supposing AAS allow someone to better extract energy/nutrients from the food they eat… this simply means that if you keep everything about your diet the same, your caloric intake is still higher on AAS because of the increased extraction of energy from food. So you would have to eat even less to get in a caloric deficit on steroids. This arguement essentially states that humans can get 5 calories out of a gram of carbs or 10 out of a gram of fat when on steroids, which I personally feel is nonsense.

Secondly, look at the study unreal posted. Putting aside the conditions of the study for a second, the results clearly show that those guys lost net weight. The argument originally was that net weight could go up in a deficit, and that study does not support that claim, only that lean tissue could be built in a deficit. I would take those results w a grain of salt. After years of training, it’s hard enough for a natty to gain a kg of lean muscle in a caloric surplus, nevermind a cut.

Even on steroids, it still takes energy to build muscle. If you ate a 500 calorie deficit on day, even if that 500 calories goes entirely toward muscle building, that’s still 500 calories worth of energy lost from your body. That 500 is getting used by the muscle building process. An additional amount of energy will be physically changed into muscle, but I digress. The point is, you used 500 calories from within your own body to do things, that is now lost. This translates to a net loss of bodyweight on the scale.

Not to mention that it takes more calories to maintain muscle mass than fat, so nothing about the idea that someone could gain bodyweight eating a calorie deficit makes any sense (outside of some water retention for someone doing the babiest of baby cuts on juice).

Iv done exactly this plus some on a tren, mast, test, dbol, adrol recomp.

BTW I’m not necessarily arguing against anyone’s point here just speaking from my own experience not studies or anything

No… it wasn’t… I should’ve rephrased my initial post. I meant gain a pound or two pertaining to muscle mass.

However I do believe if dosages are high enough that one can theoretically gain net weight whilst in a deficit… If you’re on 3000mg weekly, it’s certainly possible

Really? Even when you’ve got an androgen concentration of 50x baseline? You can certainly get around basic physiology

Not exactly “higher”… otherwise say a man eating 2000 cals (maintenance being 2200) wouldn’t lose fat on a cycle according to your rationale (though one can lose fat mass on a cycle even whist in a surplus). Anabolic steroids increase BMR (basal metabolic rate), You’re baseline caloric intake for maintenance increases. With you’re argument the opposite would be true, due to enhanced nutrient partitioning caloric intake required to be in a net surplus would be less… This is/isn’t the case, with physiology so heavily altered one can reap benefit as if they were in a surplus whilst still in a deficit. BUT they’re still theoretically in a deficit… so rapid fat loss + accrual in lean mass (surpassing pound for pound rates of fat loss ) and the scale will budge.