Why am I a Called a Sellout?

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
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Big fucking deal.

I’ve heard crap from white people for listening to rap (“nigger music”).

I’ve heard crap from white people for rooting for black fighters when they fight white fighters (like BHop this past weekend).

I hear crap about voting for a black man for president.

And I could give two flying fucks less. I do what I like, I listen to what I like, I pull for the fighters I want, and I’ll vote whatever the fuck way I want.

Sounds like your balls need to drop. Don’t live by the standards your race has set for you. If you want to listen Metallica while snowboarding with a rebel flag tattooed on your ass, go to it.

As long as you do what you like, and don’t only do it because you think someone will like you better for it (be it an individual or a race), than you have no concern.

So you don’t fit into the mainstream ideal of a black man. Get over it.

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[quote]I’m also multiracial, and have found that I do not identify with either my Asian side nor my Caucasian side. I take what I like out of White and Asian culture and forget about the stuff I think is stupid.
[/quote]

This is individualism. This is what works.

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OP I think you’re absolutely right in saying that it largely comes down to people not wanting to take accountability. I think another good concept that goes with this relates to how we raise children. I haven’t raised any yet but good parenting includes holding high expectations of your kids. Adults really aren’t any different, people tend to respond to the expectations that are placed on them. Obviously this doesn’t apply to everything. I think it holds true politically in many situations that if the people have low expectations put on them then they function at that level and it breeds feelings of entitlement.

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[quote]GCF wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
jawara wrote:
polo77j wrote:
Are you famous? Sounds to me it’s a deflection mechanism. The people you’re saying this to probably don’t want to accept reality … So, rather than actually think about what you’re saying and accept it or retort with a rational, well-thought argument they discredit any sense you make by labeling you a “sell out” effectively avoiding the conversation. Does that sound about right, Sell-Out?

No I’m just a soldier. I’ve gone thru this type of thing all my life but it really came to head on another online forum that’s full of liberals. One of them, a white chick even went as far to say that my heart is “white”. She of coarse is total pot smoking, super lefty moron that also calls all military members American terrorists.

Maybe I’m naive or whatever…but what does being liberal have to do with all of this. Are white people calling you a sellout??

Yes. White liberals, largely because I don’t Obama.

Ok…I see your angle now…wow…that’s fucked up. They did it before I got the chance…I’m joking…we disagree on things…but I would never resort to that.

Of course you wouldn’t, most people wouldn’t.

Jawara likes to forget about the millions of people who agree and disagree with him and don’t say stupid shit like the above. But then he likes to get all upset when some ‘white, pot smoking, super lefty moron, chick’ does and ignores the fact he does the same.

Here’s a tissue big J. Dry those eyes. There there.
[/quote]

Tell you what. Do some research on how abortion,crime,drugs, and HIV have affected the black community, then get back to me.

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[quote]jawara wrote:

Tell you what. Do some research on how abortion,crime,drugs, and HIV have affected the black community, then get back to me.[/quote]

I’ll tell you what. Go back read your first post, read the title of this thread then start making sense.

I am pretty well aware of the devastating effects of those things. I’m not disagring with them. But they have nothing to do with me telling you to stop being a big, sopping wet, girls blouse and having a cry about someone calling you a sellout.

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[quote]GCF wrote:
jawara wrote:

Tell you what. Do some research on how abortion,crime,drugs, and HIV have affected the black community, then get back to me.

I’ll tell you what. Go back read your first post, read the title of this thread then start making sense.

I am pretty well aware of the devastating effects of those things. I’m not disagring with them. But they have nothing to do with me telling you to stop being a big, sopping wet, girls blouse and having a cry about someone calling you a sellout.

[/quote]

So what your saying that I’m supposed to sit idly by as a race of people destroy themselves.

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“…So what your saying that I’m supposed to sit idly by as a race of people destroy themselves…”

That statement is written in third person.

If you are who you say you are, jawara…you better do a personal evaluation of your original question and of who and what you are.

I wouldn’t worry at this point about what others have to say.

Mufasa

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[quote]Mufasa wrote:
“…So what your saying that I’m supposed to sit idly by as a race of people destroy themselves…”

That statement is written in third person.

If you are who you say you are, jawara…you better do a personal evaluation of your original question and of who and what you are.

I wouldn’t worry at this point about what others have to say.

Mufasa[/quote]

Eh?

49

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
“…So what your saying that I’m supposed to sit idly by as a race of people destroy themselves…”

That statement is written in third person.

If you are who you say you are, jawara…you better do a personal evaluation of your original question and of who and what you are.

I wouldn’t worry at this point about what others have to say.

Mufasa[/quote]

It’s not jawara who needs to be looking at himself.

It is very easy to understand why he refers to his race in the third person: He is not act black enough to be accepted.

Clarence Thomas has the same problem. So does Walter Williams. So does Condi Rice.

It must suck to be young and have your own race turn on you.

I have to wonder if jawara was lamenting over being the only black guy in a white community, would the FI’s and the GCF’s be as vociferous.

Probably not - especially if jawara were a liberal.

Black conservatives are the devil to the rest of the black community. How someone can not know this is beyond me.

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[quote]jawara wrote:
GCF wrote:
jawara wrote:

Tell you what. Do some research on how abortion,crime,drugs, and HIV have affected the black community, then get back to me.

I’ll tell you what. Go back read your first post, read the title of this thread then start making sense.

I am pretty well aware of the devastating effects of those things. I’m not disagring with them. But they have nothing to do with me telling you to stop being a big, sopping wet, girls blouse and having a cry about someone calling you a sellout.

So what your saying that I’m supposed to sit idly by as a race of people destroy themselves.[/quote]

Being an advocate for who you are as an individual and a non-conformist to popular urban black culture is not sitting idly by. If you feel like you’re doing nothing when you’re being yourself, you are completely wrong.

You obviously have identity issues, and you need to realize that, like I’ve stated before, you need to forget about what others have said. When black people see you going against the grain, they will either be idiots and think you’re a weirdo OR they will be intelligent and think you’re progressive.

Again, you have to decide who’s important: idiots or intellectuals.

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Ok,jawara…is this about you getting worked up about being called a “sellout” by a white “liberal” on an internet forum??

Or is this completely about being viewed as a sellout by the black community?..for being a black conservative?..or just being YOU??

You’re jumping back and forth. Just look at the tone you present now…nobody is arguing against what is affecting the black community…yet you’re presenting one.

You’re presenting the same “if you’re not with me,you’re against mentality” with those who are not sympathizing with you. Then turning around and acting as if they refute your claims of what is affecting the black community. You’ve lost some of your sincerity.

Anyways…now that we’re talking about black conservatives:

First,anyone that argues against the problems in the black community is a fool. BUT the problem with black conservatives is that they have a nasty habit of generalizing and stereotyping.

Either black people(and other ethnic groups)as a whole or only single the “lower class” of black people out as the root of all problems. Some of this is also rooted by black conservatives own resentment and distaste for their own backgrounds.

The “black community” is in return offended because of this. With a little help from the media…i must admit. AND the fact that the majority of black conservatives point fingers but are never in the communities/neighborhoods reaching out and helping educate. Which is not the same as giving handouts(as liberals are supposed to be all about).

To the black community this is seen as being out of touch…and conjures up the idea that black conservatives are just looking down on them.

Add all of this to “If you’re not with me…you’re against me” mentality. Add the uneducated…and SOME already established racism and frustration in the black community. This makes for good recipe for black conservatives being labeled “sellouts.”

It has less to do with acting black…or white than what it appears.

Somewhat off topic…but why is the thought of Obama as president triggered an “identity crisis” with large number of black conservatives?? Interesting. Almost…uhh…nevermind.

Just my two cents…but I could care less anyway…I’m a sellout.

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Is this true? Why would Obama’s candidacy affect anyone’s identity one way or the other? If all these conservatives share with a candidate is skin color, speaking in ideological terms, perhaps they’ve got to re-examine how deeply they hold to those ideas.

I’ve gotta ask, who are you referring to here?

I wonder what they’re supposed to do? Most people will live in the best neighborhood they can afford. Jeremiah Wright lives in a 10,000 square-foot mansion in a white neighborhood, but we never hear about that. I often wonder where guys like Al Sharpton live.

I think the most black conservative pundits can do is the same thing white conservative pundits do: write and try to communicate ideas.

It seems to me that as long as there is a separate “black community” that sees itself as such, there is an element of collectivism in that community that I can’t help but see as detrimental.

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[quote]rainjack wrote:
It’s not jawara who needs to be looking at himself.

It is very easy to understand why he refers to his race in the third person: He is not act black enough to be accepted.

Clarence Thomas has the same problem. So does Walter Williams. So does Condi Rice.

It must suck to be young and have your own race turn on you.

I have to wonder if jawara was lamenting over being the only black guy in a white community, would the FI’s and the GCF’s be as vociferous.

Probably not - especially if jawara were a liberal.

Black conservatives are the devil to the rest of the black community. How someone can not know this is beyond me.

[/quote]

Your post would make more sense if jawara made a little more sense. He’s whining about his leisure activities and the OJ verdict. And the only example he gave of someone calling him a sell out was a pot-smoking white liberal.

To me, it doesn’t sound like it’s his race turning on him. It sounds like the white people in his life don’t think he’s black enough. And that’s an entirely different problem to deal with.

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What is being sold? Racial loyalty?

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[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Somewhat off topic…but why is the thought of Obama as president triggered an “identity crisis” with large number of black conservatives?? Interesting. Almost…uhh…nevermind.

Is this true? Why would Obama’s candidacy affect anyone’s identity one way or the other? If all these conservatives share with a candidate is skin color, speaking in ideological terms, perhaps they’ve got to re-examine how deeply they hold to those ideas.
[/quote]

I agree. If it holds true for the likes of J.C.Watts,Colin Powell(somewhat) and other black “conservative” figures…I can imagine it holds true to “everyday” black conservatives as well.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-06-14-black-republicans_N.htm

Just personal conversations and experience with black conservative friends.

I wasn’t referring to living in the neighborhoods…lol. I was talking about actually going into the communities and speaking…trying to educate,etc.

That frustrates me and I really can’t argue with that.
My first post to this thread(other than fucking with rainjack):

“The problem is too much generalization of character and culture when speaking about ourselves.”

“This is 2008 and there is a giant gap of how the black community is as compared to years ago. There is just too much disparity in ideas and thinking because the only thing we have in common now is being black. We want to be equal part of society…yet we want to be separate. Makes for a lot of friction amongst us.”

56

[quote]malonetd wrote:

To me, it doesn’t sound like it’s his race turning on him. It sounds like the white people in his life don’t think he’s black enough. And that’s an entirely different problem to deal with.[/quote]

It is an entirely different problem, but you can’t know how black people are treating him so I don’t think you can make the assumption that ONLY white people are “turning” on him. It would make MORE sense if black people did treat him differently, or “turning on him”, because of his political and social views.

I agree, but I also disagree.

57

I don’t think Thomas Sowell, Walter Williams, Armstrong Williams and LaShawn Barber are supporting him. I’m pretty sure they’re not thrilled about McCAin, but I haven’t read anything to suggest they support Obama.

Walter Williams was on John Stossel’s latest thing over on Sloth’s thread.

[quote]“The problem is too much generalization of character and culture when speaking about ourselves.”

“This is 2008 and there is a giant gap of how the black community is as compared to years ago. There is just too much disparity in ideas and thinking because the only thing we have in common now is being black. We want to be equal part of society…yet we want to be separate. Makes for a lot of friction amongst us.”[/quote]

Good stuff.

58

[quote]DCubed wrote:
malonetd wrote:

To me, It sounds like the white people in his life don’t think he’s black enough. And that’s an entirely different problem to deal with.

It is an entirely different problem, but you can’t know how black people are treating him so I don’t think you can make the assumption that ONLY white people are “turning” on him. It would make MORE sense if black people did treat him differently, or “turning on him”, because of his political and social views.

I agree, but I also disagree.[/quote]

I didn’t make any assumptions. I wouldn’t assume to know how he is treated. I can only go by what he has told me. From what he has said on this thread, “it doesn’t sound like it’s his race turning on him.”

59

[quote]jawara wrote:
When I said OJ did it I was a sellout. When Dave Chapplelle said OJ did it, it was funny.

When I say black men need to stop getting black women pregnant and leaving them (70% of black kids grow up without a father) I’m a sellout. When BO makes a speech on fathers day about the same topic he’s a visionary.

When I go skiing I’m a sellout. When Naughty By Nature makes a music video of themselves snowboarding it’s cool.

Why is it that when a black man speaks of being held accountable for your actions and not wanting handouts he’s a sellout, but when a black man seeks to perpuate liberal values that lead more of the troubles that got him in trouble in the first place, its seen as progressive?

[/quote]

Because by and large the assumption of perpetual victimization is given to blacks. Most liberal types assume the absolute worst in blacks (lying, cheating, shiftless, low morals, you name it) and in a fit of multi-culturalism are more than happy to let blacks stay that way in the ghetto. See, the way it works is that if there is a problem the politically correct way to deal with it is to express sympathy, blame someone else and assume blacks are so traumatized as a victims that any sort of recovery – even generations later – is impossible. This is the modern equivalent of the white man’s burden, and we can all feel so much better about ourselves (of course we didn’t have anything to do with it, it’s the system, so no hard feelings, right?)

Now for the alarming statistic nobody wants to air: While blacks have a larger percentage on public assistance, roughly 85% of them are hard working, middle-class or above.

(Both John McWhorter and Shelby Steele make a good case that far from helping families, most of the current government aid programs in fact subsidize bad parenting. Check them out if you haven’t. Steele in particular I find arresting reading. One of Steele’s books has the figure cited above in it.)

I still maintain all that matters is if you mommy raised you right. Everything else is just cocktail party chit chat.

And I might just be full of shit…

– jj

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Now there’s a role model!