T Nation

Why am I a Called a Sellout?

When I said OJ did it I was a sellout. When Dave Chapplelle said OJ did it, it was funny.

When I say black men need to stop getting black women pregnant and leaving them (70% of black kids grow up without a father) I’m a sellout. When BO makes a speech on fathers day about the same topic he’s a visionary.

When I go skiing I’m a sellout. When Naughty By Nature makes a music video of themselves snowboarding it’s cool.

Why is it that when a black man speaks of being held accountable for your actions and not wanting handouts he’s a sellout, but when a black man seeks to perpuate liberal values that lead more of the troubles that got him in trouble in the first place, its seen as progressive?

Jawara,

It’s an insidious, self-defeating “group-think” that extends, perhaps, from a kind of group self-hatred. Anyway, it seems rampant among many groups, but especially among blacks. It’s sad, really.

Some thoughts…

To various degrees, most all groups cling to certain beliefs that flatter, manage, control, protect the “image” of the group - often regardless of the truth value of these beliefs.

This “orthodoxy” is sometimes maintained at all cost; and is often considered to be more important than the personal will and beliefs of any given member - and so, almost no one is allowed to question these beliefs.

However, given that the group is composed of “followers” who both enforce and bow to majority opinion, they are especially receptive to being influenced by perceived leaders (famous like chapelle, or anointed and worshipped like Obama, or people on music videos…) who are able to flatter their collective image at the same time they’re shaping it.

Why are some leaders preferred to others (say, bill Cosby) - who knows? Somehow, Cosby didn’t flatter their collective self enough - whereas Obama is a master at doing so.

I think Cosby and other black conservitives get the sellout label because he holds people accountable. These days nobody wants to be held accountable for anything.

Questioning the validity of the justice system, strong families, and snowboarding are liberal values? And they lead society into trouble?

Wow. News to me.

Black guys aren’t supposed to go skiing?! That one’s new for me.

I think most people are irresponsible and won’t be held accountable for their actions. It’s always more frustrating when you recognize it in a group you happen to be a member of.

I wouldn’t worry about the sellout label though. Regardless of what you do in life, someone, somewhere, will despise you for it and try to stick a label on you.

[quote]Otep wrote:
Questioning the validity of the justice system, strong families, and snowboarding are liberal values? And they lead society into trouble?

Wow. News to me.[/quote]

It’s amazing how hard some people will work to create a post that sounds clever, only to find out that they are clueless fucks, and would have been better off just shutting the fuck up.

[quote]jawara wrote:
Why is it that when a black man speaks of being held accountable for your actions and not wanting handouts he’s a sellout, but when a black man seeks to perpuate liberal values that lead more of the troubles that got him in trouble in the first place, its seen as progressive?
[/quote]

Being an individual (as apposed to a collectivist) is unpopular. It is especially unpopular for those that do not let themselves be identified by one of the groups they happen to fall into.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
However, given that the group is composed of “followers” who both enforce and bow to majority opinion, they are especially receptive to being influenced by perceived leaders (famous like chapelle, or anointed and worshipped like Obama, or people on music videos…) who are able to flatter their collective image at the same time they’re shaping it.

[/quote]

Very true.

And you’re all a bunch of hicktard racists! Go screw your sister and drink a case of Pabst Blue Ribbon!

JUST KIDDING!

I can empathize with his first three statements, but the last one confuses me a bit. I can see how black society can contradict itself in some aspects, but when has it been frowned upon to be accountable for your actions in black subculture?

Unless I’m totally ignorant, accountability for your actions is praised universally.

Did somebody really call you out on those things you mentioned?

[quote]jawara wrote:
When I said OJ did it I was a sellout. When Dave Chapplelle said OJ did it, it was funny.

When I say black men need to stop getting black women pregnant and leaving them (70% of black kids grow up without a father) I’m a sellout. When BO makes a speech on fathers day about the same topic he’s a visionary.

When I go skiing I’m a sellout. When Naughty By Nature makes a music video of themselves snowboarding it’s cool.

Why is it that when a black man speaks of being held accountable for your actions and not wanting handouts he’s a sellout, but when a black man seeks to perpuate liberal values that lead more of the troubles that got him in trouble in the first place, its seen as progressive?

[/quote]

I dunno. On one hand, racial collectivism seems to work for maintaining group identity. I just can’t find any evidence that it works for anything else. Most of the racial collectivism I observe ends up turning into a self-defeating blame-shifting onto the “Other,” whoever that is at the time.

It also tends towards keeping people angry, which leads to strife, poverty and other things.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Otep wrote:
Questioning the validity of the justice system, strong families, and snowboarding are liberal values? And they lead society into trouble?

Wow. News to me.

It’s amazing how hard some people will work to create a post that sounds clever, only to find out that they are clueless fucks, and would have been better off just shutting the fuck up. [/quote]

Irony.

[quote]jawara wrote:
When I said OJ did it I was a sellout. When Dave Chapplelle said OJ did it, it was funny.

When I say black men need to stop getting black women pregnant and leaving them (70% of black kids grow up without a father) I’m a sellout. When BO makes a speech on fathers day about the same topic he’s a visionary.

When I go skiing I’m a sellout. When Naughty By Nature makes a music video of themselves snowboarding it’s cool.

Why is it that when a black man speaks of being held accountable for your actions and not wanting handouts he’s a sellout, but when a black man seeks to perpetuate liberal values that lead more of the troubles that got him in trouble in the first place, its seen as progressive?

[/quote]

The problem is too much generalization of character and culture when speaking about ourselves.

Anyways,I think its just dealing with black people who have guilt of the truth and/or uneducated. Or sadly,just have racists views of the world themselves…which conjures up the “Uncle Tom” mentality.

This is 2008 and there is a giant gap of how the black community is as compared to years ago. There is just too much disparity in ideas and thinking because the only thing we have in common now is being black. We want to be equal part of society…yet we want to be separate. Makes for a lot of friction amongst us.

Jawara…seems to me you are a man who speaks his mind, and is not afraid to voice his opinion.

A man of convictions is not a sellout. Just because you have a point of view that is not agreed upon by the masses ( whether the masses are based on race, political affiliation, gender, etc.), does not mean you are selling out.

Sad people think that way.

Are you famous? Sounds to me it’s a deflection mechanism. The people you’re saying this to probably don’t want to accept reality … So, rather than actually think about what you’re saying and accept it or retort with a rational, well-thought argument they discredit any sense you make by labeling you a “sell out” effectively avoiding the conversation. Does that sound about right, Sell-Out?

[quote]polo77j wrote:
Are you famous? Sounds to me it’s a deflection mechanism. The people you’re saying this to probably don’t want to accept reality … So, rather than actually think about what you’re saying and accept it or retort with a rational, well-thought argument they discredit any sense you make by labeling you a “sell out” effectively avoiding the conversation. Does that sound about right, Sell-Out?[/quote]

I want to marry your avitar. please post in every thread so they can all become worthy of reading through.

V

I swear everytime she wears a sweater and she walks into a room I introduce myself and ask her if we’ve met.

[quote]jawara wrote:
When I said OJ did it I was a sellout. When Dave Chapplelle said OJ did it, it was funny.

When I say black men need to stop getting black women pregnant and leaving them (70% of black kids grow up without a father) I’m a sellout. When BO makes a speech on fathers day about the same topic he’s a visionary.

When I go skiing I’m a sellout. When Naughty By Nature makes a music video of themselves snowboarding it’s cool.

Why is it that when a black man speaks of being held accountable for your actions and not wanting handouts he’s a sellout, but when a black man seeks to perpuate liberal values that lead more of the troubles that got him in trouble in the first place, its seen as progressive?

[/quote]

Boo bloody hoo. “I’m a black conservative and nobody loves me” wah wah wah.

Man up ya big cry baby. Everybody here has been called names for their political views: facist, hippy, nazi, communist… blah blah. Nascar race fans get made fun of, golf fans get made fun of (and so they should it’s not a fucking sport), sniff sniff sniff.

Stop crying there are plenty of people who agree with you and don’t call you nasty names. There are plenty of people who don’t agree with you and don’t call you nasty names. But you are so desperate to be the victim all you hear are those ever so nasty names that keep you awake at night. “Boo hoo those nasty liberals that got us in this mess are calling me a sellout.”

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Otep wrote:
Questioning the validity of the justice system, strong families, and snowboarding are liberal values? And they lead society into trouble?

Wow. News to me.

It’s amazing how hard some people will work to create a post that sounds clever, only to find out that they are clueless fucks, and would have been better off just shutting the fuck up.

Irony.[/quote]

Dipshit.

[quote]MarvelGirl wrote:
Black guys aren’t supposed to go skiing?! That one’s new for me.

I think most people are irresponsible and won’t be held accountable for their actions. It’s always more frustrating when you recognize it in a group you happen to be a member of.

I wouldn’t worry about the sellout label though. Regardless of what you do in life, someone, somewhere, will despise you for it and try to stick a label on you.[/quote]

I guess not because I got made fun of for doing it. Surfing too.