What is Racism?

[Headhunter]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
All over the message board there are many who seem to take stands against “racism” but yet I have not seen what I think to be an adequate definition of what racism is. Is racism hateful or divisive, etc?

[/quote]

Racism today is different in meaning than it used to be.

The old definition was to simply exclude someone because of race. Today it is a magic word to attain victimization. It has become a means to attain something from someone else — all you have to do is utter the magic word and you become a victim with some sort of claim on those around you.

People will use just about any means to attain power. By claiming that someone else is racist, you hope to use their morality as a weapon against them. Of course, if the other person really was racist, such a ploy would NEVER work, so its all simply an evil trick.

Its sad because real racism does exist — like what Mugabe does in Zimbabwe.

[rainjack]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Nah…I wasn’t that serious,but this can be clarified later when equated “racial” pride as being more of a “cultural” or “ethnic” pride…which the majority of American white people do not celebrate enough…but its a personal choice…and nothing is wrong with that. No big deal.[/quote]

How would I go about celebrating my ethnic, or cultural pride? I am a mutt. I have moved 10 times in the last 16 years, and have had at least that many different jobs.

I am part Black, Comanche, German, Dutch, and God knows what else.

About the only thing I know is that I am a Texan. Me and ProfX have more in common than I do with any ethnic group out there.

Anyhow - I agree with you, and I wish more people saw the harmlessness in celebrating their ethnicity, or culture.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Racism has many definitions, the most common being that members of one racial group consider themselves intrinsically superior to members of other racial groups.

Racism

I think that is a pretty decent definition. I might add that the threshold of “intrinsically superior” might even be reduced down to “fundamentally different” on the basis of skin color.

Problem is, of course, race is (often) inevitably tied to culture - although less so in the modern era - but criticism of culture is not the same as criticism of race. Not everyone recognizes the distinction - sometimes because they have a vested interest in shutting down criticism of a culture they happen to be a part of, many times - so a lot of cultural criticism gets dismissed as racism.
[/quote]

I agree with this definition but what I find so hysterical is that there was a person or group of people who thought skin color was enough of a delineation to define superiority. Why stop there? Why not hair color, or eye color; or, as was mentioned earlier, blood type?

[Professor_X]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
thunderbolt23 wrote:
Racism has many definitions, the most common being that members of one racial group consider themselves intrinsically superior to members of other racial groups.

Racism

I think that is a pretty decent definition. I might add that the threshold of “intrinsically superior” might even be reduced down to “fundamentally different” on the basis of skin color.

Problem is, of course, race is (often) inevitably tied to culture - although less so in the modern era - but criticism of culture is not the same as criticism of race. Not everyone recognizes the distinction - sometimes because they have a vested interest in shutting down criticism of a culture they happen to be a part of, many times - so a lot of cultural criticism gets dismissed as racism.

I agree with this definition but what I find so hysterical is that there was a person or group of people who thought skin color was enough of a delineation to define superiority. Why stop there? Why not hair color, or eye color; or, as was mentioned earlier, blood type?[/quote]

It often wasn’t just that simple. Manifest Destiny implies a certain people are chosen to succeed making this much larger than simply about one specific skin color and adds in superior spiritual significance. It is only now when people are fighting for equality in all social areas do people run from the idea instead of towards it.

Also, you are taking for granted that genetic profiles will never be used as a form of discrimination. That aspect alone is the basis for classics like GAATACA. We simply aren’t there yet in terms of technology.

What do you think will happen when it is easier to assess life expectancy or attributes through genetic profiles? Don’t you think those who map out poorly will be discriminated against in some way?

That blood type scenario looks less improbable when put into that context.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
What do you think will happen when it is easier to assess life expectancy or attributes through genetic profiles? Don’t you think those who map out poorly will be discriminated against in some way?
[/quote]
I hope I am long dead before genetic determinism is ever that certain.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
What do you think will happen when it is easier to assess life expectancy or attributes through genetic profiles? Don’t you think those who map out poorly will be discriminated against in some way?

I hope I am long dead before genetic determinism is ever that certain.[/quote]

I just checked your DNA. Not to worry, you will be long gone. What are your plans for the weekend? You might want to think about canceling them.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I just checked your DNA. Not to worry, you will be long gone. What are your plans for the weekend? You might want to think about canceling them.[/quote]

No plans, just dinner with the in-laws. Does it look like I might be able to get out of it?

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I just checked your DNA. Not to worry, you will be long gone. What are your plans for the weekend? You might want to think about canceling them.

No plans, just dinner with the in-laws. Does it look like I might be able to get out of it?[/quote]

I have good news and bad news…

[pat]

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
pat wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What the heck is racial pride? You’re proud to have happened to be born with a certain amount of pigment to your skin? A certain texture of hair? Or eye color? Things you didn’t have any control over in the first place? It’s not like something you achieved. It just happened. Like being born a certain blood type, or something.

Type A positive pride baby! The rest of yall can get fucked!

I’m A+ as well. I am currently basking in the reflected glory of all the other A+ people throughout history, and I feel vastly empowered to have the knowledge that A+ people have been high achievers, because that means I can be one too…[/quote]

It is time to take up arms against other blood types…They are polluting the blood supply. We’ll let the O negatives live though, we can keep them as slaves and concubines.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Nah…I wasn’t that serious,but this can be clarified later when equated “racial” pride as being more of a “cultural” or “ethnic” pride…which the majority of American white people do not celebrate enough…but its a personal choice…and nothing is wrong with that. No big deal.

How would I go about celebrating my ethnic, or cultural pride? I am a mutt. I have moved 10 times in the last 16 years, and have had at least that many different jobs.

I am part Black, Comanche, German, Dutch, and God knows what else.

About the only thing I know is that I am a Texan. Me and ProfX have more in common than I do with any ethnic group out there.

Anyhow - I agree with you, and I wish more people saw the harmlessness in celebrating their ethnicity, or culture. [/quote]

Sounds like we have a lot in common…outside from being a Texan also. I feel there are so many ways in celebrating without offending someone…I just celebrate it in just finding more about my ethnic history and its culture.

More particularly,finding more about my family’s history and realizing how fascinating it is to really know where you come from. It helps in finding out things that,in a sense,explain who you are.

For most black people,its hard to really learn about your actual ancestors other than what history tells us.,The lack of substantial records…and just the nature of our history makes it hard. But I am proud that my family took enough pride in who we are…so that our history has been passed down.

We have a family bible that traces our family all the way back to the slave owners…and the explanations as to why the older members of my family had reddish hair,freckles,and hazel eyes…and why we carry the last name O’Quinn.

Also,there is a show that comes on PBS called “African-American Lives” were black celebrities have the genealogy of their families researched. You can just see the “pride” in their faces as they find out the history of their families.

Funny how the need for things I’ve mentioned are a result of long history of racism and discrimination in this country.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Nah…I wasn’t that serious,but this can be clarified later when equated “racial” pride as being more of a “cultural” or “ethnic” pride…which the majority of American white people do not celebrate enough…but its a personal choice…and nothing is wrong with that. No big deal.

How would I go about celebrating my ethnic, or cultural pride? I am a mutt. I have moved 10 times in the last 16 years, and have had at least that many different jobs.

I am part Black, Comanche, German, Dutch, and God knows what else.

About the only thing I know is that I am a Texan. Me and ProfX have more in common than I do with any ethnic group out there.

Anyhow - I agree with you, and I wish more people saw the harmlessness in celebrating their ethnicity, or culture.

Sounds like we have a lot in common…outside from being a Texan also. I feel there are so many ways in celebrating without offending someone…I just celebrate it in just finding more about my ethnic history and its culture.

More particularly,finding more about my family’s history and realizing how fascinating it is to really know where you come from. It helps in finding out things that,in a sense,explain who you are.

For most black people,its hard to really learn about your actual ancestors other than what history tells us.,The lack of substantial records…and just the nature of our history makes it hard. But I am proud that my family took enough pride in who we are…so that our history has been passed down.

We have a family bible that traces our family all the way back to the slave owners…and the explanations as to why the older members of my family had reddish hair,freckles,and hazel eyes…and why we carry the last name O’Quinn.

Also,there is a show that comes on PBS called “African-American Lives” were black celebrities have the genealogy of their families researched. You can just see the “pride” in their faces as they find out the history of their families.

Funny how the need for things I’ve mentioned are a result of long history of racism and discrimination in this country.

[/quote]

You are lucky to even be able to trace it back that far. I have no clue about my family past maybe 3-4 generations ago. Anything that happened before the 1900’s is completely lost in time.

I do take offense that any of this needs to be explained in this day and time. It would take one ignorant fucker to not understand why people who lost that much would look into and celebrate the history they can piece together.

[Lorisco]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m Irish by ancestory, but I have no Irish pride. Why should I? I don’t live in Ireland. I didn’t choose to be born from an Irish blood line. That’s just how the chips fell. I don’t listen to traditional Irish music and get misty-eyed about a motherland, that well, actually isn’t my mother-land. But, I take some pride in the US. After all, I do live here and can participate in trying to change it. But, not because I just happened to be born here than, say, Afghanistan.

No offense, but this drastic ignorance of what has happened in this country over just the last 60 years is getting ridiculous.

Let me just say that you just might feel differently if you had any experience in a culture that tried for centuries to basically snuff you out of existence. You JUST might want some pride in who you are at that point. You know, maybe.[/quote]

Who you are, as a person? Your country of birth? Your genetic origin?

These are all very different things and I would say that the first is the only true measure and something that we should all focus on. The others are artificial distinctions that come from time and geography.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m Irish by ancestory, but I have no Irish pride. Why should I? I don’t live in Ireland. I didn’t choose to be born from an Irish blood line. That’s just how the chips fell. I don’t listen to traditional Irish music and get misty-eyed about a motherland, that well, actually isn’t my mother-land. But, I take some pride in the US. After all, I do live here and can participate in trying to change it. But, not because I just happened to be born here than, say, Afghanistan.

No offense, but this drastic ignorance of what has happened in this country over just the last 60 years is getting ridiculous.

Let me just say that you just might feel differently if you had any experience in a culture that tried for centuries to basically snuff you out of existence. You JUST might want some pride in who you are at that point. You know, maybe.

Who you are, as a person? Your country of birth? Your genetic origin?

These are all very different things and I would say that the first is the only true measure and something that we should all focus on. The others are artificial distinctions that come from time and geography.

[/quote]

Who we all are is a combination of every experience and everyone we have ever come in contact with in our lives. Who we can become can also be based on what we have seen from others. No one thinks of reaching farther than the moon before someone reaches the moon first. Therefore, knowledge of what came before is essential to further success, even as an individual.

It would be foolish for anyone to take the stance that familial history does not matter much. In fact, foolish doesn’t describe how stupid that is.

Since for many of us, that familial history was completely destroyed, that alone is why the focus is on appearance…because the country that erased our background based that destruction on our appearance.

[Sloth]

Hey, family history holds no interest for me, that’s all. History overall, sure. Again, I could care less that some Irish men stepped off a boat those many years ago, and so started my family line in America. This ancestor was dead long before my father was even born. What his dress, taste in food or music, and station in life were like, are of no interest to me. I’m just American. No hyphens, please and thank you.

Edit: I can’t begin to say how many times someone has bored me to tears with something like “…and, therefore, I’m related to U. Grant!” Yawn.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Hey, family history holds no interest for me, that’s all. History overall, sure. Again, I could care less that some Irish men stepped off a boat those many years ago, and so started my family line in America. This ancestor was dead long before my father was even born. What his dress, taste in food or music, and station in life were like, are of no interest to me. I’m just American. No hyphens, please and thank you.

Edit: I can’t begin to say how many times someone has bored me to tears with something like “…and, therefore, I’m related to U. Grant!” Yawn.[/quote]

Good for you. I would expect that personal take from someone who doesn’t plan on accomplishing much in life, however. I am being honest with that.

I have a strong desire to know what kind of man my ancestor might have been. I want to know what his strengths and weaknesses were. I want to know what we have in common, if anything at all.

Sadly, the difference between us is that you CAN find this info out if you want to. I can’t.

[Sloth]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Hey, family history holds no interest for me, that’s all. History overall, sure. Again, I could care less that some Irish men stepped off a boat those many years ago, and so started my family line in America. This ancestor was dead long before my father was even born. What his dress, taste in food or music, and station in life were like, are of no interest to me. I’m just American. No hyphens, please and thank you.

Edit: I can’t begin to say how many times someone has bored me to tears with something like “…and, therefore, I’m related to U. Grant!” Yawn.

Good for you. I would expect that personal take from someone who doesn’t plan on accomplishing much in life, however. I am being honest with that.
[/quote]

I can asure you, your expectations are false.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Hey, family history holds no interest for me, that’s all. History overall, sure. Again, I could care less that some Irish men stepped off a boat those many years ago, and so started my family line in America. This ancestor was dead long before my father was even born. What his dress, taste in food or music, and station in life were like, are of no interest to me. I’m just American. No hyphens, please and thank you.

Edit: I can’t begin to say how many times someone has bored me to tears with something like “…and, therefore, I’m related to U. Grant!” Yawn.

Good for you. I would expect that personal take from someone who doesn’t plan on accomplishing much in life, however. I am being honest with that.

I can asure you, your expectations are false.[/quote]

Great. I hope they are. I still hold the opinion that most people who would act like who their ancestors are is an irrelevant fact are those who don’t plan on surpassing their accomplishments or those of many others.

[Big_Boss]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Nah…I wasn’t that serious,but this can be clarified later when equated “racial” pride as being more of a “cultural” or “ethnic” pride…which the majority of American white people do not celebrate enough…but its a personal choice…and nothing is wrong with that. No big deal.

How would I go about celebrating my ethnic, or cultural pride? I am a mutt. I have moved 10 times in the last 16 years, and have had at least that many different jobs.

I am part Black, Comanche, German, Dutch, and God knows what else.

About the only thing I know is that I am a Texan. Me and ProfX have more in common than I do with any ethnic group out there.

Anyhow - I agree with you, and I wish more people saw the harmlessness in celebrating their ethnicity, or culture.

Sounds like we have a lot in common…outside from being a Texan also. I feel there are so many ways in celebrating without offending someone…I just celebrate it in just finding more about my ethnic history and its culture.

More particularly,finding more about my family’s history and realizing how fascinating it is to really know where you come from. It helps in finding out things that,in a sense,explain who you are.

For most black people,its hard to really learn about your actual ancestors other than what history tells us.,The lack of substantial records…and just the nature of our history makes it hard. But I am proud that my family took enough pride in who we are…so that our history has been passed down.

We have a family bible that traces our family all the way back to the slave owners…and the explanations as to why the older members of my family had reddish hair,freckles,and hazel eyes…and why we carry the last name O’Quinn.

Also,there is a show that comes on PBS called “African-American Lives” were black celebrities have the genealogy of their families researched. You can just see the “pride” in their faces as they find out the history of their families.

Funny how the need for things I’ve mentioned are a result of long history of racism and discrimination in this country.

You are lucky to even be able to trace it back that far. I have no clue about my family past maybe 3-4 generations ago. Anything that happened before the 1900’s is completely lost in time.

I do take offense that any of this needs to be explained in this day and time. It would take one ignorant fucker to not understand why people who lost that much would look into and celebrate the history they can piece together.[/quote]

Exactly…how can you not take pride in who you are…and the lengths that got you to this present day? Hell,I take pride in myself just for the fact that I went out and did the research for my family. I had the pieces…but putting the puzzle together was hard and emotional.

Especially with dealing with some white people…I was cussed out,called the n-word,etc. when they realized I was a black person researching the name “O’Quinn” and that the locations,dates,and origins of my family matched their families history also.

Yet some of those same people talked about how poorly Irish-Americans were treated and such…give me a break. That shit was hard as hell…would have been harder if not for that bible and finding my great-great grandfather’s personal record book from 1910.

We were cleaning my great-grandpas’s house out to sell after his passing…and found the record book,a letter from his mom,an old free mason ring,and a group picture of about 20 people in front of an log house. All in an old hat box…almost like it was looking for us.

[Sloth]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Hey, family history holds no interest for me, that’s all. History overall, sure. Again, I could care less that some Irish men stepped off a boat those many years ago, and so started my family line in America. This ancestor was dead long before my father was even born. What his dress, taste in food or music, and station in life were like, are of no interest to me. I’m just American. No hyphens, please and thank you.

Edit: I can’t begin to say how many times someone has bored me to tears with something like “…and, therefore, I’m related to U. Grant!” Yawn.

Good for you. I would expect that personal take from someone who doesn’t plan on accomplishing much in life, however. I am being honest with that.

I can asure you, your expectations are false.

Great. I hope they are. I still hold the opinion that most people who would act like who their ancestors are is an irrelevant fact are those who don’t plan on surpassing their accomplishments or those of many others.[/quote]

No, we’re individualists. We don’t hang what we may or may not accomplish, on people we’ve never met. Careful with those stereotypes, by the way. I know how much you yourself hate hearing them, after all.

[Sloth]

Oh, and I do celebrate the 4th of July and Thanksgiving. So, yeah, I suppose I do celebrate my heritage.