What is Racism?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m Irish by ancestory, but I have no Irish pride. Why should I? I don’t live in Ireland. I didn’t choose to be born from an Irish blood line. That’s just how the chips fell. I don’t listen to traditional Irish music and get misty-eyed about a motherland, that well, actually isn’t my mother-land. But, I take some pride in the US. After all, I do live here and can participate in trying to change it. But, not because I just happened to be born here than, say, Afghanistan.[/quote]

No offense, but this drastic ignorance of what has happened in this country over just the last 60 years is getting ridiculous.

Let me just say that you just might feel differently if you had any experience in a culture that tried for centuries to basically snuff you out of existence. You JUST might want some pride in who you are at that point. You know, maybe.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m Irish by ancestory, but I have no Irish pride. Why should I? I don’t live in Ireland. I didn’t choose to be born from an Irish blood line. That’s just how the chips fell. I don’t listen to traditional Irish music and get misty-eyed about a motherland, that well, actually isn’t my mother-land. But, I take some pride in the US. After all, I do live here and can participate in trying to change it. But, not because I just happened to be born here than, say, Afghanistan.[/quote]

Its a personal choice,right? But you recognize that a large majority of those with Irish ancestry have pride in that…and why,correct?

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m Irish by ancestory, but I have no Irish pride. Why should I? I don’t live in Ireland. I didn’t choose to be born from an Irish blood line. That’s just how the chips fell. I don’t listen to traditional Irish music and get misty-eyed about a motherland, that well, actually isn’t my mother-land. But, I take some pride in the US. After all, I do live here and can participate in trying to change it. But, not because I just happened to be born here than, say, Afghanistan.

Its a personal choice,right? But you recognize that a large majority of those with Irish ancestry have pride in that…and why,correct? [/quote]

Oh, I recognize they do. I just don’t understand why. Ok, you had a ancestor that once lived in Ireland. And?

[quote]pat wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What the heck is racial pride? You’re proud to have happened to be born with a certain amount of pigment to your skin? A certain texture of hair? Or eye color? Things you didn’t have any control over in the first place? It’s not like something you achieved. It just happened. Like being born a certain blood type, or something.

Type A positive pride baby! The rest of yall can get fucked![/quote]

I’m A+ as well. I am currently basking in the reflected glory of all the other A+ people throughout history, and I feel vastly empowered to have the knowledge that A+ people have been high achievers, because that means I can be one too…

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
I think majority white people don’t express “true” racial pride enough…

Usually, whites do this with respect to specific nationality – St. Patty’s day for example used to be a day of celebrating Irish pride. Is Irish a race?

Then you also recognize why its celebrated.

But race and nationality are two different concepts.

Borders have no regard for the genetic composition of its interior.[/quote]

You have to understand the emotional magic of collectivism.

We are a herd animal, we need to belong to a tribe.

Though, if we’re to celebrate our “mother-lands,” our ancestory, etc., don’t we all have to trace these things back to Africa?

I get irritated when I hear someone talk about white people did this or that, as if all white people are in cahoots to keep others down.

I guess a black person feels the same when white people talk about rappers or whatnot, they don’t associate themselves with that shit.

I guess everyone generalizations to a certain extent, but that goes beyond race. It could also be a redneck/yankee, liberal/conservative, man/woman, etc. argument.

I think most of us just want to work, then go home to see our families and friends.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m Irish by ancestory, but I have no Irish pride. Why should I? I don’t live in Ireland. I didn’t choose to be born from an Irish blood line. That’s just how the chips fell. I don’t listen to traditional Irish music and get misty-eyed about a motherland, that well, actually isn’t my mother-land. But, I take some pride in the US. After all, I do live here and can participate in trying to change it. But, not because I just happened to be born here than, say, Afghanistan.

No offense, but this drastic ignorance of what has happened in this country over just the last 60 years is getting ridiculous.

Let me just say that you just might feel differently if you had any experience in a culture that tried for centuries to basically snuff you out of existence. You JUST might want some pride in who you are at that point. You know, maybe.[/quote]

I do take pride in who I am. I just don’t hang my pride around some historical ancestor or my skin color.

I have more in common with a conservative, right of center, American black man than some socialist white in Ireland, or wherever the heck else.

Edit: I do find it odd that you targeted me. A guy who has no interest in a white pride movement, or even in justifying one.

I thought the notion of “race” was frowned upon these days? People tend to identify themselves by the country they live in, surely that is the only sensible way to try and get along together?

As for the Irish, their “race” is (or more correctly was) Celtic, as in they aren’t Anglo Saxons, yet as the Celts and the Saxons all originate from the Viking population of Scandinavia, the whole race divide is less significant.

A lot of the whole “race” thing is probably better defined as culture. The white population of the US I understood was largely of English, German, Dutch, Irish, Scottish (maybe even Welsh) and in parts French ancestry - again, people who can also be traced back to the whole Anglo-Saxon/Celtic “race” thing.

So really, the longer back this whole “race” thing is traced the more meaningless it gets. I thought you guys all just considered yourselves Americans?


But to the question in hand, I understand racism to be discrimination based on the ethnic origin (or “race”) of a person.

Having read a lot of the posting on this forum lately I was suprised by just how much of a problem it still is. I honestly wonder if it will ever get resolved, as the generations change and so have different experiences of racism, and thus different levels of “guilt”, leading to different ideas on reparations, as such.

[quote]Joe D. wrote:
I thought the notion of “race” was frowned upon these days? People tend to identify themselves by the country they live in, surely that is the only sensible way to try and get along together?
[/quote]
Not here in the US. In the US we hyphenate ourselves and apply double standards and confusing social rules in the dialog between the races.

Sometimes it doesn’t feel like the “melting pot.” It seems more like someone went and melted the pot.

Racism is just a word.

If an action or statement is not morally wrong unless you classify it as being racist then it is probably not that bad in the first place.

eg Obama using the term typical white person.

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:
I think majority white people don’t express “true” racial pride enough…[/quote]

In the words of John McEnroe:

You cannot be serious!

Racism has many definitions, the most common being that members of one racial group consider themselves intrinsically superior to members of other racial groups.

I think that is a pretty decent definition. I might add that the threshold of “intrinsically superior” might even be reduced down to “fundamentally different” on the basis of skin color.

Problem is, of course, race is (often) inevitably tied to culture - although less so in the modern era - but criticism of culture is not the same as criticism of race. Not everyone recognizes the distinction - sometimes because they have a vested interest in shutting down criticism of a culture they happen to be a part of, many times - so a lot of cultural criticism gets dismissed as racism.

Should a person have pride in their race? I’d say that would be stupid. But pride in your culture/heritage is fine - but you should recognize some natural limits. Balkanization is never a good idea - too much emphasis on differences produces unnecessary frictions among people who actually share a great deal in common.

[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
Big_Boss wrote:
I think majority white people don’t express “true” racial pride enough…

In the words of John McEnroe:

You cannot be serious!
[/quote]

Nah…I wasn’t that serious,but this can be clarified later when equated “racial” pride as being more of a “cultural” or “ethnic” pride…which the majority of American white people do not celebrate enough…but its a personal choice…and nothing is wrong with that. No big deal.

What sucks is that most people hang around with what they know, so blacks hang with blacks, whites with whites, and so on. If people would actually take the time to get to know others, most would find that we are all ok and could get along. Except with lixy.

[quote]dk44 wrote:
What sucks is that most people hang around with what they know, so blacks hang with blacks, whites with whites, and so on. If people would actually take the time to get to know others, most would find that we are all ok and could get along. Except with lixy. [/quote]

lol…you,lixy,and rainjack are a real group of buddies.

See BigBoss, prime example is lixy, I don’t hate him because of his skin color, I hate him cuz he is a moron douche bag cocksucker. (I don’t really hate you lixy, your an alright guy just a little crazy)

The history of the US has confused americans of the true meaning of racism. The true meaning of racism is the emotion expressed from quite simply, ethnic conflict. That is why the jews don’t really like the arabs, and vice versa…or why the pakis don’t like the indians. It is all just a matter of different ethinic groups competing for a bigger piece of the pie. The US however, has changed the idea of racism immensly. In the South, racism is basically about blacks being stupid degenerates if you’re white or mexican, because of the history of slavery, where we still in many cases regard the long subjugated blacks as inferior. Oh well.

Because I’ve always felt that racism was just another word for politics, i’ve never really felt much dislike for it. What makes racism so much worse than disliking someone for their political views? If I hated republicans so what? We are supposed to be less racist because we want to live in happy go lucky multicultural society where rainjack and X can merrily stroll through texas as happy as a couple of gays?

It’s not bad to be racist, but it will take away from relationships that you could have with black people. I do think that would be worse than any so-called principle that says that racism is worse than pedophilia or murder or whatever.

Now, i’ve always been the kind of person to make a few racist jokes. Who cares? I don’t. I could also care less about the BET comics that talk about white people. Heck, I think that stuff is funny.

Err… this is America bitches, where YOUR culture is MY culture.

I’m not Irish, but I where green and drink on St. Pattys day.

I’m not Scottish, but bag pipes makes me misty eyed.

I’m not black, but I enjoy jazz and the poetic styling of Papoose and Nas.

I’m not Mexican but I put on a sombrero and celebrate the fifth of May.

White people “pride” doesn’t exist because we’re to diversified. To “come together” so to speak is to unify based on our skin color.

“Black” is only a culture in the US because we MADE it that way. We separated them by color (as opposed to by ethnicity) so they developed their culture that way, as opposed to the Italians, Germans, and Irish immigrants who created cultures based on where they were from. Blacks HAD no culture so they MADE one. Hence, “Black Pride” is a PC term.

But now, in the modern day, black is diversifying more. Someone who is Haitian may have “black pride” but they are more likely to display Haitian pride. Same with Kenyans, Cubans, Dominicans, ect ect…

HOWEVER, because so many blacks have the same starting point, the creation of black culture in America, the sentiment of “black pride” will remain for all non-immigrant blacks in America.

Am I getting somewhere or am I just talking out of my ass?

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Am I getting somewhere or am I just talking out of my ass?[/quote]

I think I see what you’re saying. I can’t remember his name off-hand, but there’s a Hispanic comedian that says when he’s in Texas everyone thinks he’s Mexican, and when he’s in Miami, everyone thinks he’s Cuban.