Ufc 110

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]Aussie Davo wrote:
There was NOTHING technical about Cain’s striking or movement, he had fast strong hands, that was IT. Nog got caught on the button and went down.
[/quote]

Ah,come on…you can give more credit than that. Cain had good footwork and his hands flowed nicely with the low kicks. He mixed it up and was the more technical fighter. Which is funny,considering how people always praise Nog’s “good boxing.” [/quote]

Ok yeah, maybe I was a bit ovrzealous in my comments, but it’s just fueled by Rogan’s ridiculous commentary. If that dude isn’t nutriding BJJ, he’s throwing out hyperbole when it’s completely uneccessary. I’m of the mind that Joe Rogan wouldn’t know what a skilled striker looked like if they hit him in the face.e

I like big Nog, he’s a badass but Nog’s “boxing” is for shit IMO, does keeping your hands up and being able to throw straight punches pass for “good” boxing these days? Certainly seems that way. However, my thoughts are probably irrelevant, as the heavyweight division doesn’t really have any outstanding strikers at this point in time, so the point is moot.[/quote]

Well, it kind of depends on what your point of reference is. You’re just not going to see too many guys in MMA (actually none really) who have “good” boxing compared to elite professional boxers. So, that’s kind of an unrealistic expectation.

Just like you aren’t gonna see many MMA guys with kickboxing/muay thai skills like elite level kickboxing/MT guys. Or you aren’t gonna see too many with wrestling skills like elite level international wrestlers. Or submission skills like elite level submission artists.

When such people do enter into MMA (provided that they don’t absolutely suck at the other aspects of MMA), they usually move up the ranks fairly quickly. Anderson, Lesnar, Henderson, Penn, Maia (even though he has weak striking, he’s beaten some good fighters and is getting a shot at Silva next), etc…

22

[quote]drewh wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
Cain looked like Cain though I want to see him fight the Gonzaga Dos Santos winner for number 1 contender.[/quote]

Pretty sure he is getting the winner of Lesnar vs Mir/Carwin for the belt. Then they’ll probably have the winner of Gonzaga vs Dos Santos get the next shot. No use in using up all of your up and coming contenders and minimizing your opportunities for good title fights.
[/quote]

Will they have enough time for that and if Gonzaga wins which is very probable what then?[/quote]

Then give him a title shot. He’s already had one, so it’s not such a crazy idea that he might get another one. Who else deserves one more than the winner of that fight?

23

LOL, he does like to lick his ass doesn’t he? What I want to know is this: George S has been living in the US for something like 11 yrs. His black belt is under Machado, he lived with Serra for a few months, he’s trained in so many diff’t camps, I’ve never heard of anyone cross-training as much as this guy does. So how are his techniques “classic Eddie Bravo xyz” when he’s trained with EVERYONE?

Also, how does he afford to live this lifestyle? Wealthy family I assume.

  • When is Bonnar going to get tired of getting the shit kicked out of him? Jones took away his manhood his last fight, he brutalized him; the King of the Kimura Krst…whatever must have landed 40+ heavy shots to his face. Shot after shot landed flush…Bonnar, you’re done! To the poster above who said he’s a gatekeeper: only if we’re talking about the outer gate! Bonnar is LEVELS behind the top guys. He’s like the basement keeper, that’s how low he is.

-I’ve said this for years: Nog does not have “good” boxing. He doesn’t have a lot of power, he has no head movement, his footwork is slow, and his defense consists of blocking punches with his face. Everyone he’s faced has been able to hit him repeatedly in the head. How is that good boxing? Cain did finish Nog, so props to him. But we’ll see when he faces Dos Santos how good his striking really is.

-Crocop is done as a contender. We’ve all said it, we all know it. He was a superior athlete who grew old, that’s all. Nothing to be ashamed about. Reflexes aren’t what they once were. He’s now a gatekeeper.

-God I loved seeing joe stevenson dominated. Now if somebody could do that to Fitch, the queen of lay and pray, I’d be ecstatic

-Happy to see Lytle win, he’s got a lot of kids and works full time as a fireman. Foster will be back tho, he truly does remind me of a young Matt Hughes.

Very good card overall

24

Great card- I love Cro Cop but was disappointed they gave him a fish… I was totally thinking his opponent was gonna get ktfo via headkick like in his legendary fight with Wand after that cut over the right eye. A bunch of good fights. Can’t wait for the Carwin fight coming up.

25

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
So how are his techniques “classic Eddie Bravo xyz” when he’s trained with EVERYONE?
[/quote]

Well… in all fairness he did have him in pretty much a textbook mission control posture at least once- and possibly twice if my memory serves me correctly. I don’t think Rogan was implying that he only uses Bravo techniques, but that one particular technique could be pretty much described as “classic Eddie Bravo mission control.”

It would be like somebody taking his opponents back and trapping the arm with his leg or somebody headbutting a guy in the face. You could call that “classic BJ Penn” or “classic Mark Coleman.” It doesn’t mean that they only use their techniques, it’s just that they are using a particular technique that is most associated with one guy.

Personally, I really like Joe Rogan as a commentator, I just find that he gets way too excited about leg kicks.

26

First Joe Rogan is a great commentator. Anyway I really wasn’t that interested in watching this but wow that Aussi guy really fucking wow’ed me. Ill be watching his future fights. Not that I think Joe Stevenson is anything special but he made him look childish. Completely dominant everywhere and on top of that his boxing actually looked semi-decent, something rare in mma fights. Granted Joe is hardly a decent boxing sparing partner… I’m going in circles, basically I’ll be watching this guy’s future fights.

27

[quote]Sonny S wrote:
But we’ll see when he faces Dos Santos how good his striking really is.[/quote]

You’re not saying that Dos Santos can box, or for that matter that he’s actually good are you? No that’s not what you’re saying. Cain will destroy that guy.

[quote]Happy to see Lytle win, he’s got a lot of kids and works full time as a fireman. Foster will be back tho, he truly does remind me of a young Matt Hughes
[/quote]

I wasn’t happy to see Lytle tork that guys leg back way further than he had to to get the submission. Take a look at the video if you get the opportunity. I understand that it was an important fight for him in the UFC, but he was a bit over zealous.

28

[quote]Deorum wrote:
First Joe Rogan is a great commentator.[/quote]

I agree, when he’s not screaming at the top of his lungs to a barely intelligible level. When he’s not claiming that certain fighters have great stand-up when they don’t, and when he’s not obviously favoring one fighter over another, yea he’s not bad.

29

I didn’t see this card so I can’t comment on what happened Saturday night, but can ask what people see in Dos Santos and why they think he’d be a good matchup with Velasquez? Just an opinion, but Dos Santos fought a couple of nobodys and a Cro Cop that either threw the fight or left his head in Mother Croatia. From where I sit Velasquez would fustigate Dos Santos.

30

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I didn’t see this card so I can’t comment on what happened Saturday night, but can ask what people see in Dos Santos and why they think he’d be a good matchup with Velasquez? Just an opinion, but Dos Santos fought a couple of nobodys and a Cro Cop that either threw the fight or left his head in Mother Croatia. From where I sit Velasquez would fustigate Dos Santos.[/quote]

First round finishes over Werdum, Struve and Yvel are nothing to take too lightly.

I think, however, that a lot of the hype around him is partly due to the training camp that he comes out of. He’s obviously a very capable striker with knockout power, but I think a lot of people are expecting him to be a strong grappler because he trains jujitsu with Nog and Maia.

Everybody is very hyped over Cain right now, but I don’t think he looked great against Kongo or Rothwell. He did look amazing against Big Nog and has obviously improved his striking. I think Cain is a beast and certainly has a great chance to become heavyweight champion. dos Santos is two years younger though, and I think he’s got a chance to challenge for the title in a couple years or so.

I think Cain would obviously be a significant favorite if the two fought right now, but give dos Santos another couple of years and I think he can get there.

31

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I didn’t see this card so I can’t comment on what happened Saturday night, but can ask what people see in Dos Santos and why they think he’d be a good matchup with Velasquez? Just an opinion, but Dos Santos fought a couple of nobodys and a Cro Cop that either threw the fight or left his head in Mother Croatia. From where I sit Velasquez would fustigate Dos Santos.[/quote]

First round finishes over Werdum, Struve and Yvel are nothing to take too lightly.

I think, however, that a lot of the hype around him is partly due to the training camp that he comes out of. He’s obviously a very capable striker with knockout power, but I think a lot of people are expecting him to be a strong grappler because he trains jujitsu with Nog and Maia.

Everybody is very hyped over Cain right now, but I don’t think he looked great against Kongo or Rothwell. He did look amazing against Big Nog and has obviously improved his striking. I think Cain is a beast and certainly has a great chance to become heavyweight champion. dos Santos is two years younger though, and I think he’s got a chance to challenge for the title in a couple years or so.

I think Cain would obviously be a significant favorite if the two fought right now, but give dos Santos another couple of years and I think he can get there.

[/quote]

To be honest with you I’ve never been a big Velasquez guy either. He’s always struck me as a dominant wrestler without ko power. Saw the highlight of Saurday, and yeah, he put it on Nog but Nog’s getting old and has taken a lot of damage over the years. How many uncontested flush shots did he land on Rothwell that didn’t even look to faze the guy? If he fights someone who can at least somewhat nullify the wrestling advantage what does he have?

Dos Santos caught Werdum with a pretty nasty uppercut if I remember right, but don’t think it knocked him out, just down. Other than that he fought the 7 footer who looked lost and a Cro Cop who damaged him with a couple of punches then stopped fighting, hence the “…either threw the fight or…” comment.

I’m saying if these two fought Velasquez would dump him on his ass and noogie him 'til the ref stopped it.

32

What’s hilarious is everybody is like Oh Shit Dos Santos trains at black house. Black House isn’t a camp really. All of there fighters train seperately but can elect to train at Black House if they need to, they all have there own bjj coaches, striking coaches etc… seperately. I say have Cain and Jr. fight a year is a little long for Valasquez to wait for the outcome of whoever Lesnar fights in July. I just have a feeling they want Mir Lesnar III which I don’t want to see.

33

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
How many uncontested flush shots did he land on Rothwell that didn’t even look to faze the guy? If he fights someone who can at least somewhat nullify the wrestling advantage what does he have?[/quote]

Agreed, although I will say that there are probably very few people, if anybody that can nullify his wrestling advantage. Of the top 10 or so heavyweights:

Fedor
Lesnar
Mir
Big Nog
Carwin
dos Santos
Overeem
Barnett
Rogers
Werdum

Obviously Fedor is Fedor and Lesnar could nullify Cain’s wrestling with his own. Mir has the grappling credentials but got dominated on the ground by Lesnar. Cain is not at that level of size and power but his wrestling is still dominant and it’s possible that he could work Mir over on the ground, although I would still make Mir the favorite in that matchup. I wish the Big Nog fight would have gone to the ground so we could see how Cain dealt with a submission threat of that magnitude. Werdum and Barnett are two excellent grapplers, but we’re not likely to see either of them fight Cain any time soon and it seems that Cain has the explosiveness to handle them. Cain’s wrestling is a step above Carwin, but Carwin does have the knockout power to make Cain wary. Kongo had Cain in trouble, but I think Cain would still beat Carwin as I think Carwin is overrated. Overeem is an excellent striker with strength and power to test Cain, but ultimately not in the same class I think.

I think Cain would get handled easily by Fedor or Lesnar and I think Mir is too complete for him right now, but I put him at #4 behind those guys as I just don’t think there’s really anybody who can nullify Cain’s wrestling, besides those 3 and possibly Big Nog, Werdum or Barnett, but it looks like Cain can outclass them in the standup.

I agree, but aside from Fedor, Lesnar, Mir and Velasquez, who is on a better streak right now? You could definitely argue Carwin based on the KO power and Nog based on history, but after that, you have to put dos Santos in the top 7 at least. At just 25, that’s pretty impressive.

I think the Gonzaga fight will be an excellent test for dos Santos. If dos Santos dominates Gonzaga (like I think he will), then he definitely should be in the queue for the title shot after Mir/Carwin and Cain.

34

I have significant doubts that JDS can stop a shot from someone like Cain. And there’s no way he can stuff a power double from Brock. But there’s no denying that to the extent that we’ve seen him, he has good speed and decent KO power.

35

[quote]drewh wrote:
I just have a feeling they want Mir Lesnar III which I don’t want to see.[/quote]

The thing is that you are just about the only one who doesn’t want to see that. Mir-Lesnar III would be a massive PPV draw, so you can guarantee it will be the case if the UFC can make it happen.

Here’s how I would play matchmaker if I were the UFC:

If Mir beats Carwin:
Lesnar v Mir
Cain v Carwin
Big Nog v Cro Cop
dos Santos v Nelson (assuming Nelson beats Struve and dos Santos beats Gonzaga)
Kongo v Gonzaga (assuming Kongo beats Buentello)
Buentello v Rothwell
Struve v some can

You have to go Lesnar-Mir as that would be a huge PPV card. Cain-Carwin would be a big fight and easily act as a #1 contenders matchup with the winner getting Lesnar after he beats down Mir and the loser getting Big Nog (if it’s Carwin) or Mir (if it’s Cain). Cro Cop still has a big enough name where Big Nog beating him down would reestablish Big Nog’s name for a matchup with Carwin or a rematch with Mir. Cro Cop seems finished and this would be a way to at least get some use out of his corpse. Nelson is pretty popular right now but is never going to challenge for the title. dos Santos would work him over and possibly knock him out on the feet and that would be an attractive fight while not risking dos Santos too much before the matchups with the top 5 guys get sorted out. Kongo v Gonzaga would be a good matchup to sort out the mid-level gatekeepers. If Kongo wins, that puts him on a nice little win streak to fight one of the top guys who loses a fight or two. Rothwell-Buentello would be a nice sloppy slugfest for an undercard, although Rothwell will probably fight sooner. If Struve loses to Nelson, I think he needs to take a slight step back in competition. He’s only 22 and shows promise, so he shouldn’t be rushed. Him and Duffee should be worked up slowly so they are ready to step in to contender status in a few years.

If Carwin beats Mir:
Lesnar v Carwin
Big Nog v Mir
Cain waits
Cro Cop v Rothwell
Gonzaga v Nelson or Struve (assuming dos Santos beats Gonzaga)
Kongo v dos Santos

If Carwin beats Mir, I think you have to give him a title shot, especially if he knocks Mir out. Big Nog-Mir is a great rematch to sell, given the bad blood between the two of them. It’s kind of bullshit for Cain to wait, but who else is he going to fight? Anybody else would be a massive step down and it would be foolish for UFC to risk a fluke upset wasting somebody who can draw a big title-shot PPV with Lesnar. Put the Cro Cop-Rothwell fight as planned and if Cro Cop uses Rothwell as a punching bag, then he’s got a 2-fight win streak and, “he’s back!” and you can build a fight with Big Nog. If Rothwell wins, then he’s got a little more cred and then maybe he fights Kongo or Buentello or even Struve, if Struve beats Nelson. If Nelson beats Struve, then I think a matchup with Gonzaga would be a good matchup and give the winner of that some solid cred as the mid-level grappler gatekeeper. Kongo would be a big test for dos Santos, but either way that fight works out well for the UFC. If Kongo beats Buentello and then dos Santos, that’s a nice streak for him and reestablishes him as a legit heavyweight and then maybe he takes on Big Nog or Carwin and dos Santos is young enough to put together a few more wins and get back to contendership. If dos Santos wins, then that obviously makes his next fight even bigger.

Just a few thoughts while being way too bored today.

36

[quote]drewh wrote:
I just have a feeling they want Mir Lesnar III which I don’t want to see.[/quote]

The thing is that you are just about the only one who doesn’t want to see that. Mir-Lesnar III would be a massive PPV draw, so you can guarantee it will be the case if the UFC can make it happen.

Here’s how I would play matchmaker if I were the UFC:

If Mir beats Carwin:
Lesnar v Mir
Cain v Carwin
Big Nog v Cro Cop
dos Santos v Nelson (assuming Nelson beats Struve and dos Santos beats Gonzaga)
Kongo v Gonzaga (assuming Kongo beats Buentello)
Buentello v Rothwell
Struve v some can

You have to go Lesnar-Mir as that would be a huge PPV card. Cain-Carwin would be a big fight and easily act as a #1 contenders matchup with the winner getting Lesnar after he beats down Mir and the loser getting Big Nog (if it’s Carwin) or Mir (if it’s Cain). Cro Cop still has a big enough name where Big Nog beating him down would reestablish Big Nog’s name for a matchup with Carwin or a rematch with Mir. Cro Cop seems finished and this would be a way to at least get some use out of his corpse. Nelson is pretty popular right now but is never going to challenge for the title. dos Santos would work him over and possibly knock him out on the feet and that would be an attractive fight while not risking dos Santos too much before the matchups with the top 5 guys get sorted out. Kongo v Gonzaga would be a good matchup to sort out the mid-level gatekeepers. If Kongo wins, that puts him on a nice little win streak to fight one of the top guys who loses a fight or two. Rothwell-Buentello would be a nice sloppy slugfest for an undercard, although Rothwell will probably fight sooner. If Struve loses to Nelson, I think he needs to take a slight step back in competition. He’s only 22 and shows promise, so he shouldn’t be rushed. Him and Duffee should be worked up slowly so they are ready to step in to contender status in a few years.

If Carwin beats Mir:
Lesnar v Carwin
Big Nog v Mir
Cain waits
Cro Cop v Rothwell
Gonzaga v Nelson or Struve (assuming dos Santos beats Gonzaga)
Kongo v dos Santos

If Carwin beats Mir, I think you have to give him a title shot, especially if he knocks Mir out. Big Nog-Mir is a great rematch to sell, given the bad blood between the two of them. It’s kind of bullshit for Cain to wait, but who else is he going to fight? Anybody else would be a massive step down and it would be foolish for UFC to risk a fluke upset wasting somebody who can draw a big title-shot PPV with Lesnar. Put the Cro Cop-Rothwell fight as planned and if Cro Cop uses Rothwell as a punching bag, then he’s got a 2-fight win streak and, “he’s back!” and you can build a fight with Big Nog. If Rothwell wins, then he’s got a little more cred and then maybe he fights Kongo or Buentello or even Struve, if Struve beats Nelson. If Nelson beats Struve, then I think a matchup with Gonzaga would be a good matchup and give the winner of that some solid cred as the mid-level grappler gatekeeper. Kongo would be a big test for dos Santos, but either way that fight works out well for the UFC. If Kongo beats Buentello and then dos Santos, that’s a nice streak for him and reestablishes him as a legit heavyweight and then maybe he takes on Big Nog or Carwin and dos Santos is young enough to put together a few more wins and get back to contendership. If dos Santos wins, then that obviously makes his next fight even bigger.

Just a few thoughts while being way too bored today.

37

My favorite part of the card was when Wanderli knocked Bisping down and instinctively almost gave him a soccer kick to the head. I almost wish he did even if he would have gotten DQ’d

38

I could do without mir v lesnar III… I don’t want to pay money for the same predictable outcome

39

[quote]Amiright wrote:
I could do without mir v lesnar III… I don’t want to pay money for the same predictable outcome [/quote]

The outcome where Mir subbed Lesnar or where Lesnar TKO’d Mir?

40

Like Mir much, Mir got DOMINATED bad by Lesnar at no point was that fight even competitive. Also we haven’t seen Carwin’s wrestling to judge it properly because he KO’s everyone.