First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go out to all those involved in today’s trajedy. I am fortunate in that those who I know who work in the WTC, NYSE, etc. are all okay. However, my heart continues to ache as the number of casualties and fatalities increases. I continue to pray for all those involved and all of us.
Take Ladin prisoner and we have to feed, clothe, and house the bastard AND all his zombies will stop at nothing to try and free him… taking hostages, car-bombs, etc. You’ll think you’re living in Israel. Kill him and they lose their leadership, protection, and deep pockets. Touch the untouchable and all the wannabes will think (probably for the first time in their lives) long and hard about their actions. If a terrorist organization hides in a country and receives asylum, the country has in my opinion taken an active role in the act of war and is a viable target. Take out the leadership that protects these organizations, take out as many members of the organizations as you can and those left will be pissed off, impotent pricks with nowhere to hide. Much easier to deal with than now. New century, new rules.
There are many things I would like to comment
on in this discussion, but I don’t have the
time because I’m still trying to track down
people I know. But I do want to make one
point: a strong military retaliation against
the terrorists is probably called for here.
However nuclear weapons is NOT the way to
go. That could literally start a nuclear
war. Whatever conventional forces are needed
to track down your 10,000 terrorists (or
whatever) - fine. Don’t even think about the
nuclear option unless you want to see
nuclear retaliation, and some even greater
alteration of the world as we know it.
Easy Mike. I’m not trying to put words in your mouth. I was referring to when you wrote “However, their suffering is a direct and necessary consequence of the existence of government.” Regardless of how the perpetrators justify their acts (and I agree that the real target was the U.S. government), I don’t agree with the idea that the government necessitated their suffering.
My prayers are also with those affected by this horrible tragedy. I know the american people are strong and will unite together in aid of those who are stricken. I could hardly function today after hearing of the events - even up in canada, we grieve deeply. Keep faith in humankind and in the strength of heart and mind.
While candy-ass, mealy-mouthed, bleeding-hearts talk about moderation and patience, Palestinians and Lebanese dance with joy in the streets, mocking us. Afghanistan thumbs its nose at the world as they shelter our most hated enemy. People say “Uncle Sam brought this upon itself” How? By being the only home of true freedom in the world? By letting these people come to our country and find prosperity driving our taxis? By having riches and a way of American life that these camel jockeys drool at? Once I foolishly believed that both sides were to blame in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and that compromises had to be made. Now my eyes have been opened. There is no reasoning with these people, and their homeland should be carpet bombed into oblivion. As for Afghanistan…didn’t we help these freaks against the Russians? Give them an ultimatum… turn over every terrorist within 48 hours or level the place with bombs. T-men don’t negotiate with terrorists.
As terrible as this is, the best way to deal with this tragedy is to not buy into the fear and panic. We must solemnly bow our heads for those that were lost, and raise our heads again. This time stronger and more aware, so that this nation is not torn apart from the inside.
God bless the families of those who perished.
I would first like to echo the sentiments which have been expressed on this forum. This has been a truly sad day and my thoughts and prayers are with the families and loved ones of the countless victims. I hope that my comments are not misconstrued as being callous or insensitive but I feel that this tragedy could have very well been prevented. From what I understand, the terrorists were armed with knives and box cutters. The passengers were informed that they were going to die and they should call their families and say good bye. Why didn’t the passengers fight? I don’t know how many terrorists were on the plane but I think it is a pretty safe assumption that the terrorists were heavily outnumbered. Virtually anything can be used as a weapon. How can people just sit back and accept that they are going to be killed? There were many families up there. If someone said that that they were going to kill my wife or my child you can be damn sure that I take at least one of those bastards down with me. People today have become extremely soft and weak. Think of the world war 2 generation. Think of the thousands of men who were part of the Normandy Beach invasion. These men rushed machine gun nests while their friends were shot down around them. Could this have happened with that generation? I am truly worried about the direction in which this country is heading. The terrorist group definately deserves punishment in the extreme but at least they have balls. They killed themselves for their cause while their American captives were unwilling to fight for their own lives. I think that is truly sad.
I sit here thousands of miles away in NZ, amazed, scared, and utterly out of words to describe the way I feel.
I send my heartfelt condolances to any families, mothers, fathers, daugters, sons brothers sisters, anyone who has been affected by this insane act of violence.
And I hope that the US and other national intellegence services have quick and accurate investigations to search, find and wipe of the planet, the people responsible for this
I couldn’t believe my eyes this morning when I turned on the TV.People here in Australia are in disbelief.America is a symbol of strength and dominance,people just can not comprehend this.
Unfortunately the shameful detoriation of defense and intelligence under the Clinton administration opened the door for today’s horrific events.Under his leadership',instead of taking an uncompromising,relentless and merciless stance against terrorism,the US was more concerned with political correctness and not offending the sensibilities of those who would accuse it of war-mongering. Instead of attacking those who harboured terrorists,a few low level suspects were rounded up for the obligatory token trial.In the case of the attack on the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania,no-one has been brought to justice.Ditto for the bombing of the USS Cole,where a couple of Arabs in a rubber dingy sailed up to the ship and blew a gaping hole in its side. The time has come to make a stand,a real stand.Enough of token speeches,appeasement’,measured'responses,negotiations,and compromise.YOU DO NOT COMPROMISE WITH EVIL.You obliterate it ,swiftly and decisively,otherwise it rapidly spreads like a cancer.Only evil stands to gain from compromise.The refusal to deal with terrorism head-on has only emboldened its practitioners.Like undisciplined brats who go unpunished,they will continuously push the limits to see how much they can get away with.I hope George W Bush has the cojones to show these lunatics that it's game over.The Japanese realised after Pearl Harbour, a little too late ,that they had stirred a sleeping giant’.For the sake of the US and the rest of the free world I hope the giant awakens once again.
Condolences to all those whose loved ones were killed in the US.
I think I’m probably the only non-US guy on the forum, so I think I’ll add a little Indian perspective.
The Taliban have been created thanks to the US, and I don’t think that the Bush administration will ever destroy them. Masood, the leader of anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan is India and Iran’s ally, and may not work according to US interests.
Israel can never claim to be a victim of terrorism, because Israel was formed by refugees, driving away the inhabitants of the land, wrongly and illegally.
Even Saddam may be behind the blasts. But why would America want to nail him? When he invaded Iran, America stood by him. Iran could have finished him, if Iraq hadn’t been helped.
If Saddam and Taliban are destroyed, it will counter everything that America has done. It may give a boost to the forces of democracy in that area.
The new leaders would be sympathetic to Iran and India.
If a wave of democracy overturns the Arab monarchs for good, the new rulers would not hesitate to raise the prices of oil. American companies who depend on that oil, would never want that to happen, and will want Bush to take very very limited action.
Just as Israel is a gun aimed at the Arabs, Palestine is a gun aimed at Israel. If Palestine goes, perhaps America will not be able to use the promise of peace to control Israel, which is at a strategic location near the Suez Canal.
What this translates to: The Taliban will hand over some Afghan peasants and maybe even Laden to the US army, and Bush will call it as revenge served.
Everybody will be happy that way, and Bush may even get re-elected.
Even though i am living in australia this would have to be the saddest day of my life so far. When watching the footage for the first time i though they were just demolishing an old building in New York, then i saw the planes smashing into them and man was i shocked.
I heard on one of the news stations here in australia some palestinian prick was being interviewed and said that these things happened because of americas policies and that there is so much hate towards americans by people in the middle east. I am not big on politics but why do people in these countries hate America? What policies was he talking about? Even though my heart would say ground them all into their holy sand, i think the wise and best thing to do is wait, and try to find the exact people responsible.
I can’t agree with even point strike nuclear attack, as it would indeed take innocent lives. I am somewhat mentally torn about the idea of ALL terrorists being guilty – these are religious movements, and these people are taught from infancy that what they’re doing is a command from God (they’re listening to the wrong god in my opinion). With that said, my put is to call in all SEALS, Rangers, and every surgical strike force and take out all known terrorists. Bin Laden, all his followers, PLO, all of them. If we take out just the leader, that doesn’t stop his cash, as I’m sure there are contingencies in place for his demise. But I do have a couple special treatments in mind for the leaders. (1) one .22 caliber round for each victim in the US, fired at close range (say, maybe 2 feet), making total hamburger of each limb, while keeping them alive and awake through the entire process. (2) a deli meat slicer set at on thin, start at the feet and just start cutting; when they pass out, stop until they wake up, then start again. Do these things make me a hypocrite and a barbarian? Fine, call me as you will. At this point, it won’t hurt my feelings at all.
You know, Mike the Libertarian, at some point you have to grow out of being this fucking cartoon character and take part in the human condition. Politics are obviously all that you have to reference to form your opinion no matter what the topic, and it’s beginning to get pathetic. I can’t even imagine what kind of bumbling idiot you are in social situations.
A friend of mine has lost a dear friend at the World Trade Center. Her name is Sue. She worked on the 98th floor. She is a single mome with a five-year-old daughter. My heart and prayers go to her and her family.
Brock, I understand your feeling of hatred of all Palestinians, I really do. My deep-seated resentment of Islam, Arabs and Palestinians exploded yesterday and grew even greater after watching on television Palenstinians celebrate the deaths of thousands of innocent American civilians. Had I been there to witness it, my rage would certainly have taken over. When I saw that, I had fantasies of butchering them (all of them, men, women and children) with machetes. But the hatred of an entire people, no matter how justified it may seem in a fit of rage is not just, moral or, for lack of a better term, what a T-man would do. To succumb to a group hate mentality lowers us as a nation. We will survive this. Democracy will triumph. Good will win out. In exacting our pound of flesh we must not allow anger to cloud judgment. We must not allow justifiable rage to escape in a manner that will denegrate us as a society.
Yes, there are Palestinians (many I am sure) who are terrorists or give aid and comfort to terrorists – but not every Palestinian fits this mold. The answer, to the extent that there is one, is to punish those who use terror as a means of political expression, regardless of where they live and whether or not they are directly linked to attacks against the United States. Countries that support and harbor terrorists must immediately cease to do so, turn over all known or suspected terrorsits within their borders or be treated as if they, themselves, have declared war on our country. Any country directly linked with the attack must be punished so severly that it will never again think of aiding terrorist and will serve as a reminder to the world of the might of the United States. We must beef up intelligence and counter-terrorist elements. We must strike at terrorists in their homes, regardless of boarders. There are any number of things that we must do that will punish and deter. However, I will never abide by the punishment of entire race of people. The stain I would feel on my soul would be more than I could bear. The stain on freedom and democracy would be more than it could bear. I am willing to pay a high price for revenge, I will never be willing to pay this price.
So how about this: instead of taking a collection to pay mercenaries to take out the terrorists, how about taking up a collection to help out the kids of those killed. How many children’s parents didn’t come home last night?
Terrorism like this will not be tolerated. I sincerely hope that we wipe out countries like Afghanistan, Iraq etc, the people there are not innocent, they would all have given their lives to be one of those terrorists, seeing them cheering in the streets sickened me, and like Brock said, if this makes me racist then so be it, I would not piss on one of these people if they were on fire. These people are not human and they will pay greatly for what they have done. As Tony Blair said, “We will stand shoulder to shoulder with our American allies”.
Awww, what’s a matter, kevin? Feeling a bit put out that your lack of insight prevents you from delivering social commentary any more sophisticated than, ‘I’ll pray to my invisible pink unicorn for you’? No doubt you were one of the young fools who blindly urged people to act on base human emotions and fight in Vietnam, because, hell, war feels good – doesn’t it? Well, I’m a little wiser than that. But don’t let it get to you. I mean, without people like you, at the very lower end of the ‘human condition’, who would fight our useless wars for us? Who would invade other lands and force people, at the point of a gun, to behave neighborly towards each other? Who would back foreign tyrants because they give us oil? Yep, kevin, even rejects like you have a place in this great American society of ours.
To everyone who is now claiming that Arabs, Palestinians, Iraqis, or anyone else for that matter is sub-human and deserves to die: You have lowered yourselves to the level of those that you condemn. Congratulations, and may God have mercy on your souls.