[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Watch this video and comment please:
"This video highlights Lesmi “Olu Sola” Sanchez, the Muay Thai instructor at the Tapout Training Center in Las Vegas. Lesmi showed us a few techniques on how to condition your body, and trick your mind into believing that pain is just a lie. Lesmi was quite an inspiration, and an incredible guy to talk to. We are VERY glad we didn’t piss him off in any way. "[/quote]
That video was awesome. Thanks Xen.
Thanks for the insight Sifu, welcome irish.
To throw another example in there, The Iceman, Chuck Liddell did a lot of breaking in his earlier kempo days.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Thanks for the insight Sifu, welcome irish.
To throw another example in there, The Iceman, Chuck Liddell did a lot of breaking in his earlier kempo days. [/quote]
The first time I saw Chuck Liddell figtht it was against Tito Ortiz he hit Ortiz with a reverse punch right between the eyes that was so viscious it took all the fight out of Ortiz. The few seconds Ortiz stayed in the fight after that it looked like he really did not want to be there anymore. There are fighters who have broken their hand hitting someone in the forehead like that. He certainly hit Tito like he was trying to break something.
There certainly are pros and cons to Tameshiwari and you don’t need to do it to be a good fighter. I trained for years in a school where we didn’t do any breaking and in the other schools I trained in it wasn’t a standard part of the cirriculum. But I do know some people who can do some really impressive breaking who were also real heavy hitters.
Breaking isn’t just physical there is a mental aspect to it that is really important. Because if you hit a stack of cement blocks and you have even the slightest bit of self doubt that you are not going to go through it or you are not 100 percent committed to going through it you will not make your break and you will get hurt. That is why I when I saw a man break a two foot stack with his head it was something I will never forget because he could have killed himself. I dd hear that he had fractured his skull before. So aside from the physical it was impressive to see someone make that kind of commitment.
The central nervous system plays the most important role in strking. Physical size and even strength are not as important. That is why we can find big strong people who don’t hit as hard as one would expect them to and we can also find small people who can hit surprisingly hard.
@ Xen, great vids!
@op
to develop punching power to maximum potential, you can do a lot!
It is telling when someone with legendary KO-capabilities (Jack Dempsey) concludes: “Punchers are made, not born!”
Step one analyze your fighting style.
Two, know your techniques.
If that is done and you’re comfortable (fighting, that is, and that can take some time), you should “sharpen” your tools (left hook, right straight whatever it is).
This can be done a bit like with powerlifting (to speak in TNation Jargon), at least for the physical aspects of the technique.
The powerlifter sees he’s weak at lockout, the Martial Artist or his teacher sees he has no “follow through”
The powerlifter does rack-lockouts and uses bands for supplementary tricps work, the martial artist does more pad work, corrects his footwork and adjusts his hips for more momentum.
Of course, mental aspects and strategical awareness is needed as well (even more). This is way more difficult, because it’s harder to assess, explain and accustom to.
A champ is just someone who’s more or less already hard wired the right way. Add an amount of good fast CNS and muscles on top of diligent practise under a good coach and you have a Tyson.
Honestly, though. Everyone should be capable of attaining knockout power regarding chumps his weight class or below.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
THIS is some real goddamn MT training
Like the trainer in Rocky Balboa said, “Blunt force trauma… Lets build, some hurting power”[/quote]
Wow.plain.wow.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
But there are born fighters. There’s guys that have never boxed in their lives who throw hard, straight punches and will KO you with one shot. There’s people who have never had anyone teach them shit, but they can hit like freight trains.
People don’t come out of the womb golfing, but they have been fighting since the dawn of humanity.
So you’re comparing apples and oranges.[/quote]
I dunno. The best fighter I ever met had a sixth sense about what you were going to do – I mean it was fucking incredible how he’d dodge everything – and every hit was like a mule. How’d he train? His mother married a shitbag who beat the Hell out of him and I mean he had missing teeth from when he was pounded at 12 years, broke his arm a couple of times, cracked ribs you name it. His big day came when he was 15 or so and the dirtbag was drunk and coming for him again – my buddy beat the shit out of him. Stomped him real good. Then my buddy ended up joining a gang and beating the shit out of people for fun. Turned him around going into the military out of High School and he cleaned up pretty well.
So there you have it people, how to become a badass. If you don’t have an evil step-dad I suggest that the psycho bitch from Hell girlfriend can work in a pinch. Just dull your kitchen knives before she moves in…
– jj
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Nikiforos wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
i think there’s really too many factors involved in a knockout to really quantify what “punching power” is. especially if defined just by the knockout. You can be long and lanky like hitman hearns or anderson silva. or you can be short and stocky like tyson or zambidis. It all comes down to your ability to use your athletic attributes to their maximum.
There are guys who punch hard with shit technique (chris leben arguably) vs guys who have perfect timing, excellent form, but arguably don’t punch “hard” (anderson silva). Then you see guys get knocked out by what looks like jabs (diaz v lawler, kimbo v petruzelli).
You could argue that it’s purely technique…
It’d be an interesting thing doing a survey about punching and kicking power where people fight from a young age in a roughly similar environment… Thailand?
That would be cool to see.
Thing is though, that like Xen is saying, just because you can hit a non moving/non resisting/not punching back bag really hard doesn’t mean that you’ll necessarily be a gifted KO artist. You’ve got to be able to land that strike accurately at the right time for it to be effective, and honestly you don’t have to be Mike Tyson to KO most people if you land/time it right.[/quote]
Well, you can certainly get all the components of any strike optimized. Ross Enamit (sp?) has a bunch of books that are all excellent to that end (for punching). However, the real trick to it is (drum roll) timing. This is what sets off a lot of hard hitter (IMHO) from the rest. You have to be able to time when the other guy eats it and your own body dynamics, so once you have the components there is still a lot left to chance.
Drills will only get you so far. There are other factors that can go into it as well. Big guys do hit harder all things being equal. On top of that, limb length can make a difference for leverages (not to mention that if you have longer arms you can keep the guy away which can help set him up).
Soooooo you want to punch harder? It is better to practice footwork and try to get to places that can’t be so well defended rather than just trying to get your punches more powerful. Sports are hard and at the extreme end genetics will play a role.
FWIW one favorite thing to do are one-armed pushups with the elbow close to the body. Hand clap pushups and pullups help too for both explosive strength and timing. All of those require coordinating core and arm movements which are key. People who punch with their arms only never get power.
– jj
[quote]jj-dude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
But there are born fighters. There’s guys that have never boxed in their lives who throw hard, straight punches and will KO you with one shot. There’s people who have never had anyone teach them shit, but they can hit like freight trains.
People don’t come out of the womb golfing, but they have been fighting since the dawn of humanity.
So you’re comparing apples and oranges.
I dunno. The best fighter I ever met had a sixth sense about what you were going to do – I mean it was fucking incredible how he’d dodge everything – and every hit was like a mule. How’d he train? His mother married a shitbag who beat the Hell out of him and I mean he had missing teeth from when he was pounded at 12 years, broke his arm a couple of times, cracked ribs you name it. His big day came when he was 15 or so and the dirtbag was drunk and coming for him again – my buddy beat the shit out of him. Stomped him real good. Then my buddy ended up joining a gang and beating the shit out of people for fun. Turned him around going into the military out of High School and he cleaned up pretty well.
So there you have it people, how to become a badass. If you don’t have an evil step-dad I suggest that the psycho bitch from Hell girlfriend can work in a pinch. Just dull your kitchen knives before she moves in…
– jj[/quote]
I absolutely agree with this. To your buddy, violence was not a far-fetched thing, a thing to be theorized about in the dojo- it was right there in his face every fucking day.
So he knew the ins and outs of violence, and no doubt he learned, the hard way, how to hit and not get hit.
What I was saying is that not everyone needs a trainer to show them everything- some people are just tough bastards. Old time guys like Jack Dempsey and John L. Sullivan exemplify that.
[quote]jj-dude wrote:
Soooooo you want to punch harder? It is better to practice footwork and try to get to places that can’t be so well defended rather than just trying to get your punches more powerful. [/quote]
When I was in Goju-ryu as a youth, they taught us where to hit, which was just as important as how to hit. This can be just as important.
People always said how hard I could punch for my size- no one ever realizes that any time I punched, I was aiming right for the solar plexus like I’d been taught to do over and over and over as a child.
If you hit that spot square… hell, all you need is a poke to make someone feel it. When you catch someone full on there it will drop them.
[quote]Sifu wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Because if you hit a stack of cement blocks and you have even the slightest bit of self doubt that you are not going to go through it or you are not 100 percent committed to going through it you will not make your break and you will get hurt.
[/quote]
No kidding! I remember 2 or 3 years ago I had to break a stack of 5 bricks, I broke them all but ended up bruising up and cutting my hand pretty good. The next time I had to break, I broke a stack of 8 and my hand went through those bricks a hell of a lot faster. I didn’t feel a damn thing. No bruising, no cuts, anything.
Incidentally I was more focused that time and even meditated for a half hour before getting all pumped up to do the break. There were also dudes that were way bigger than me trying to break but not doing nearly as well (im talking having trouble with even one or two bricks) I think it was a good way to show the focus and technique that was needed for this particular tradition in the martial arts as size did not trump everything else.
[quote]AttackOfTheChris wrote:
Sifu wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Because if you hit a stack of cement blocks and you have even the slightest bit of self doubt that you are not going to go through it or you are not 100 percent committed to going through it you will not make your break and you will get hurt.
No kidding! I remember 2 or 3 years ago I had to break a stack of 5 bricks, I broke them all but ended up bruising up and cutting my hand pretty good. The next time I had to break, I broke a stack of 8 and my hand went through those bricks a hell of a lot faster. I didn’t feel a damn thing. No bruising, no cuts, anything.
Incidentally I was more focused that time and even meditated for a half hour before getting all pumped up to do the break. There were also dudes that were way bigger than me trying to break but not doing nearly as well (im talking having trouble with even one or two bricks) I think it was a good way to show the focus and technique that was needed for this particular tradition in the martial arts as size did not trump everything else.
[/quote]
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
jj-dude wrote:
Soooooo you want to punch harder? It is better to practice footwork and try to get to places that can’t be so well defended rather than just trying to get your punches more powerful.
When I was in Goju-ryu as a youth, they taught us where to hit, which was just as important as how to hit. This can be just as important.
People always said how hard I could punch for my size- no one ever realizes that any time I punched, I was aiming right for the solar plexus like I’d been taught to do over and over and over as a child.
If you hit that spot square… hell, all you need is a poke to make someone feel it. When you catch someone full on there it will drop them.[/quote]
Yes, accuracy matters big time.
[quote]WolBarret wrote:
I’ve heard boxers and boxing trainers say “Punchers are born”. Now is this absolutely true or is there a case where the man’s background truly developed his punching power (Raised on farm, did manual labor as a child)
And is the size of a fighter’s hands a factor in his punching power?[/quote]
http://www.morrisnoholdsbarred.co.uk/archives_training_tips_get_twitching.html
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
jj-dude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
What I was saying is that not everyone needs a trainer to show them everything- some people are just tough bastards. Old time guys like Jack Dempsey and John L. Sullivan exemplify that.[/quote]
[quote]AttackOfTheChris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
jj-dude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
What I was saying is that not everyone needs a trainer to show them everything- some people are just tough bastards. Old time guys like Jack Dempsey and John L. Sullivan exemplify that.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/sully.html
[/quote]
This needs a new word to describe it… like awesomungous. Or something.
[quote]AttackOfTheChris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
jj-dude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
What I was saying is that not everyone needs a trainer to show them everything- some people are just tough bastards. Old time guys like Jack Dempsey and John L. Sullivan exemplify that.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/sully.html
[/quote]
LOL. I’ve seen that before. It’s cool as fuck.
FUCKINNG TOTALLY FORGOT ABOUT THAT SITE THANKS!!!
[quote]AttackOfTheChris wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
jj-dude wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
What I was saying is that not everyone needs a trainer to show them everything- some people are just tough bastards. Old time guys like Jack Dempsey and John L. Sullivan exemplify that.
http://www.badassoftheweek.com/sully.html
[/quote]
Awesome.
Yes, I love that website. They have some pretty ridiculous/unexpected ones like Predator and Nikola Tesla.
You’re welcome Xen.
Thai fighters often don’t have strong punches compared to boxers for a simple reason. Technique. The wider stance preferred by boxers would leave them to vulnerable to leg kicks. Quinton Jackson is a prime example of this. He has worked diligently on his boxing over the years and prefers the wider stance which makes his punches harder, but his front leg more vulnerable to kicks.
If I recall correctly, in Muay Thai most KOs come from elbows and TKOs from leg strikes. Elbows are performed in a very fast whipping motion connecting with the head resulting in single strike knockouts, whereas knees (which tend to land to the legs and body) and kicks (which tend to land to the legs, body and arms) are what tend to cause a cumulative effect.