[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Kicking is a different matter all together… that’d be REALLY interesting to gather data on.
Thai boxers often occupy ourselves with kicking harder by shin conditioning and other stuff. The question is if it works for kicking then why not punching? Back to TMA style makiwara stuff for knockout power? I dunno. A lot of variables[/quote]
I remember seeing a documentary about Pan Qing Fu (an eagle class master residing in the states) who punches a steel block (if I remember correctly) 1,000 times a day to harden his knuckles for punching. Supposedly he single handedly defeated 20 something Chinese Triad gang members, most of them with a single punch. He has since been dubbed “the iron fist of China”.
I don’t see why the concept wouldn’t work, after all steel is harder than a skull. But it would likely take a very long time and would have to be done very intelligently, otherwise you might wind up damaging nerves.
And really all that it would do would be to remove the fear or risk of damaging the knuckles due to hitting something hard. I doubt that it would necessarily increase the potential force produced.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Xen Nova wrote:
Kicking is a different matter all together… that’d be REALLY interesting to gather data on.
Thai boxers often occupy ourselves with kicking harder by shin conditioning and other stuff. The question is if it works for kicking then why not punching? Back to TMA style makiwara stuff for knockout power? I dunno. A lot of variables
I remember seeing a documentary about Pan Qing Fu (an eagle class master residing in the states) who punches a steel block (if I remember correctly) 1,000 times a day to harden his knuckles for punching. Supposedly he single handedly defeated 20 something Chinese Triad gang members, most of them with a single punch. He has since been dubbed “the iron fist of China”.
I don’t see why the concept wouldn’t work, after all steel is harder than a skull. But it would likely take a very long time and would have to be done very intelligently, otherwise you might wind up damaging nerves.
And really all that it would do would be to remove the fear or risk of damaging the knuckles due to hitting something hard. I doubt that it would necessarily increase the potential force produced.[/quote]
I remember seeing something like that also, I don’t know if it was the same guy but the story sounds familiar. I remember the guys hands looked absolutely disgusting, his knuckles were huge and deformed. I’ve also read that that kind of training is effective BECAUSE of the nerve damage that is caused.
It basically is supposed to turn your hand into a big, dead, blunt striking object. It serves to remove any kind of psychological restriction you may have so that you hit harder. Kind of like how with good wraps you not only get more stability in the wrist but you have less fear of hitting hard.
I have no idea whether those practices actually make your hands as hard as steel, but i’d rather spend time on having awesome technique.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Kicking is a different matter all together… that’d be REALLY interesting to gather data on.
Thai boxers often occupy ourselves with kicking harder by shin conditioning and other stuff. The question is if it works for kicking then why not punching? Back to TMA style makiwara stuff for knockout power? I dunno. A lot of variables[/quote]
Maybe there exists a genetic cap on kicking as well…? I’m just thinking out loud here but: Not many people have the genetics to throw super powerful kicks like a Cro Cop or a Bas Rutten, but most people can be trained to throw an effective leg kick.
"This video highlights Lesmi “Olu Sola” Sanchez, the Muay Thai instructor at the Tapout Training Center in Las Vegas. Lesmi showed us a few techniques on how to condition your body, and trick your mind into believing that pain is just a lie. Lesmi was quite an inspiration, and an incredible guy to talk to. We are VERY glad we didn’t piss him off in any way. "
Prince was known for his 1 punch KO power, that’s why he was so hyped when he came to the states.
Ross Enamait had a book for developing punching power.
The human hand is made up of many small bones which may be damaged by heavy impact. If a hard part of the opponent’s body or other hard object is inadvertently struck, the metacarpals may splay on impact and break. Boxers tape their hands so as to hold the metacarpals together and keep them from splaying.
One can toughen one’s bones by striking objects to induce osteoclasts (cells which remove bone) and osteoblasts (which form bone) to remodel the bone over the struck area increasing the density of bone at the striking surface[citation needed] (reference needed, see search pubmed at PubMed) For more information on bone remodeling, see Wolff’s law.
The wrist must also be kept in proper alignment during a fist strike. If the wrist bends on impact, it can easily be sprained, dislocated or broken. Boxers tape their wrists to reduce wrist flex.
But there are born fighters. There’s guys that have never boxed in their lives who throw hard, straight punches and will KO you with one shot. There’s people who have never had anyone teach them shit, but they can hit like freight trains.
People don’t come out of the womb golfing, but they have been fighting since the dawn of humanity.
So you’re comparing apples and oranges.
I know what you mean about natural fighters, since I’ve been head-butting and punching people since I was little, and I’ve read alot of your posts so I know you’ve seen more shit than I have therefore I will keep an open mind, but cold clocking a scrub on the street is alot different than two professionals going at it.
That person getting layed out may or may not know what the fuck he’s doing and may even have a glass jaw. He’s not peaking for a fight so he may just be having a shitty day. There are alot of factors and I don’t think that a natural fighter, despite being able to hit harder than average, starts off with all the power he will ever have, or even close to it.
Also to clarify when i asked the questions about phelps and woods, the answers could have gone either way, i wasn’t trying to say they weren’t born to perform their sport. Being a born anything implies you have the genetic potential.
Some people take to swimming naturally and others struggle with it their whole lives, I’ve seen it. But the ones who take to it naturally have to practice to be the best.[/quote]
Argument: “Firstly kicking poles is not only stupid but it is also dangerous. It will create microfractures and one day you will do a corey hill.”
Counter-Argument: “The healing of those microfractures is exactly what PREVENTS a Corey Hill. The bone heals stronger than it was before.”
[/quote]
If you didn’t give yourself enough time, rest, or nutrients to repair itself, you could potentially wind up doing a “Corey Hill” eventually. But, if you ease into it correctly, and give your body what it needs to remodel itself stronger, it should prevent bone injuries.
The real danger is the nerve damage (at least in the long run). Sure, it deadens the pain and allows you to swing for the fences so to speak, but later on down the road it can also wind up making everyday activities (like walking) difficult. That’s usually only with the real hardcore training methods though.
For what it’s worth I learned from Saekson Janjira (google him) that he toughened his shins by kicking a canvas bag filled with sand, guys used to spit their water on the bag and it eventually just felt like concrete.
My current coach was telling me a story about Janjira, where he was fighting a guy, my coach is backstage helping another fighter warmup. Janjira is backstage eating a hotdog, drinking a beer, and smoking a cigarette. He’s on deck next, so he finishes his cig real fast, downs his beer and scarfs the hotdog…
He goes in there, jabs the guy a few times, a couple teeps then zeroes in on the guys leg… kicks him once. The guy is down. Gets back up, but looks like he just saw god’s left testicle… Janjira repeats the same thing and this time the guy doesn’t get back up but stays on the ground and is CRYING.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
For what it’s worth I learned from Saekson Janjira (google him) that he toughened his shins by kicking a canvas bag filled with sand, guys used to spit their water on the bag and it eventually just felt like concrete.
My current coach was telling me a story about Janjira, where he was fighting a guy, my coach is backstage helping another fighter warmup. Janjira is backstage eating a hotdog, drinking a beer, and smoking a cigarette. He’s on deck next, so he finishes his cig real fast, downs his beer and scarfs the hotdog…
He goes in there, jabs the guy a few times, a couple teeps then zeroes in on the guys leg… kicks him once. The guy is down. Gets back up, but looks like he just saw god’s left testicle… Janjira repeats the same thing and this time the guy doesn’t get back up but stays on the ground and is CRYING.
Janjira walks fine. Still teaches.
(disclaimer: this could ALL be bullshit)[/quote]
He’s a damn good teacher…and that story sounds about right. That man was all bad intentions when he fought. My instructor trained under him for a while as well.
^Only thing I don’t like is you ALWAYS hear stories like this about any guy with a competition period dating around the 70’s when there’s limited video (video of one bruce lee’s “rooftop fights” really dispells all the myth). So I tend to be tentative about telling those stories… But the video of Janjira from the LATTER parts of career, not even his best years, really back up all the stories about him. The Thai guys generally are legit when they tell you a story, rarely have I seen them inflate #'s of fights or anything like that… Usually because you can talk to another Nakmuay who can verify…
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
^Only thing I don’t like is you ALWAYS hear stories like this about any guy with a competition period dating around the 70’s when there’s limited video (video of one bruce lee’s “rooftop fights” really dispells all the myth). So I tend to be tentative about telling those stories… But the video of Janjira from the LATTER parts of career, not even his best years, really back up all the stories about him. The Thai guys generally are legit when they tell you a story, rarely have I seen them inflate #'s of fights or anything like that… Usually because you can talk to another Nakmuay who can verify…[/quote]
No doubt. Plus I think the Thai culture has it’s influences as well…they love to tell stories…lol. For some it’s like talking about a “co-worker” so to speak…considering that most Thai’s were not fighting for hobby.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
Watch this video and comment please:
"This video highlights Lesmi “Olu Sola” Sanchez, the Muay Thai instructor at the Tapout Training Center in Las Vegas. Lesmi showed us a few techniques on how to condition your body, and trick your mind into believing that pain is just a lie. Lesmi was quite an inspiration, and an incredible guy to talk to. We are VERY glad we didn’t piss him off in any way. "[/quote]
Interesting video. The hand opening excercise at is a good one. I learned something real similar but slower from my Tai Chi teacher, he said it is good for preventing Carpal Tunnel, it’s also good for dissipating some of the chi from iron palm training.
The next part where he is punching is interesting. If you watch his head when he punches he stays at the same level instead of rising up like a lot of people do. This means that all his chi is going forward instead of being divided between up and forward. It is unfortunate that some of that wasn’t a full length view so we could see what is happening with his lower body. It looks like he might be doing a hip shifting movement that I learned in Chi Gong that really helped my punching power, but I can’t tell because I can’t see his hips. Next time you film something like that remember a punch starts at the toes and moves up through the body.
Tire kicking is one of my favorite excercises. Not only can you use it for shins but you can also use it for the ball of the foot for Mae Geri and you can also use it for conditioning the forearms. One caveat that I learned the hard way is you have to be very careful of the edge of the tread and the sidewalls because if you catch that corner across the your ankle joint it will jack out the tendons bad. At the other end of the shin you have to be careful not to jack out the tendon at the bottom of your kneecap. I noticed in the video the tire didn’t look like it had a real sharp corner like the ones I use and he was wearing what looked like a pad across his ankle. What I do is use a tire that isn’t too wide for my shins and make sure I’m positioned so I can hit it with just the part of my shim I’m trying to condition and not tear up my joints.
The next step with the steel pole shows he has been doing this for a while. You don’t really need to hit a pole any harder than he was there in order to get the bone to harden. You could start out lighter or use something softer like a Maple tree and work your way up to steel. The one thing you want to avoid if you can is bone chips. If you have a bunch of loose bone chips floating around your body they are like shrapnel and can cause you a lot of problems if they get into a joint or a vein. That is why I lke live trees for that because they have just a little bit of give that doesn’t chip bone or calcium deposits.
[quote]Xen Nova wrote:
But judging by how guys react when he kicks them with bad intentions I’d say it’s pretty legit
[/quote]
He looks deadly with his left leg. Especially at lower levels, he’s doing a few things with his technique that really give it that something extra. That is a cool video, I’m bookmarking that one.
