[quote]bandgeek wrote:
Garrett W. wrote:
[T]he roots of most rap music [are] found from African tribal music.
Thank you! This is the kind of answer I am looking for!
Secondly, the questions you are asking are akin to “What do you like better about Bach his lyrical flow or the content of his message?” Sorry man, you’re asking the wrong questions. I don’t think you’re embracing rap music for what it is, or trying to understand it for what it is. You’re trying to interpolate some classical shenanigans into an entirely different sphere of music.
Not so. Any music has specific, definable characteristics that identify it. That is how you understand something - anything - for what it “is”. Hey, if it’s all about the rhythm, so be it! If it’s all about the message, so be it! I am not artiscally conceited just because I am educated. Music doesn’t have to be Bach counterpoint or have five million chord changes a second to be enjoyable, or even good!
I can give a basic rundown of the influences that led up to modern jazz (none of which, by the way, were written down in their time). There must be, somewhere, a series of intermediate steps between African tribal music and inner city America, just as there are a series of intermediate steps between late 19th century Black spirituals and Wynton Marsalis. [/quote]
I’m gonna go in reverse order. Yes, there are steps between African music and rap today. I’m sure you can trace the steps from the Beastie Boys and NWA to today… Not very tough. I don’t know exactly how it evolved and have no real urge to know. So I can’t really illuminate anymore. However on your first point… Yes, there are characteristics that make music the genre it is (Interesting debating the nomenclature of techno/electronica/trance/ blah blah blah). But if you’ve noticed the questions you asked aren’t really applicable to rap/hip-hop. As I recall rap developed from a random group that prohibited actual singing… And so it became as Prof X describes “poetry set to beats” and from there moved on out and now you hear singing on them… And more actual instruments.
Can’t Dizzee Rascal get any love?
I just downloaded some old Diggable Planet. They had to be one of the first groups to flow jazz in with rhymes like that. Too bad they dropped from the scene so quick. Needless to say, rap has evolved and now much of the newer music expands on the musical aspects of it. I would like to know if the same criticisms that came up for rap hold true for techno music or some heavy metal music I have heard where the singer just screams as loud as possible a series of inaudible lyrics. It isn’t like he’s singing yet it is never questioned whether it is music.
Sure it is…my mother used to question it all the time, and now The GF does.
“What the fuck are you listening to?”
LOL!
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
I’m gonna go in reverse order. Yes, there are steps between African music and rap today. I’m sure you can trace the steps from the Beastie Boys and NWA to today… Not very tough. I don’t know exactly how it evolved and have no real urge to know. So I can’t really illuminate anymore. However on your first point… Yes, there are characteristics that make music the genre it is (Interesting debating the nomenclature of techno/electronica/trance/ blah blah blah). But if you’ve noticed the questions you asked aren’t really applicable to rap/hip-hop. As I recall rap developed from a random group that prohibited actual singing… And so it became as Prof X describes “poetry set to beats” and from there moved on out and now you hear singing on them… And more actual instruments.
[/quote]
You are right. I went back and reviewed my posts and I see where it may not have been clear what I was asking. My earlier generalization contained the statement that rap music does not emphasize harmony (defined as chord progressions, NOT as vertical vocal structuring) and melody. The Prof then said that statement was false and named a couple of groups. So I asked what made THOSE PARTICULAR GROUPS different in that respect (seems a logical question, no?). So my questions relating to harmony and melody were in response to what he said, and were related to the groups he mentioned.
Now, I guess I am to understand that it IS in fact about the rhythm and phrasing of the lyrics (as well as the message). In other words, I was apparently correct in that aspect of my observations. Again, if the music is poetry set to beats, fine. That is all I am asking. That, and what are the cultural influences. I suppose I can research that myself, but sometimes it is interesting to discuss these things with other people. I am interested in hearing some of the music out there that I am not likely to hear on the radio, and there were a lot of responses in that respect. I am probably older that the Prof, since I did not grow up with hip-hop as he says he did. It just wasn’t big then. I remember a friend plying the Sugar Hill Gang for me, and that was the closest thing going at the time. Anyway, sorry for not being clear and thanks to those who did respond. Now I have some bands to check out.
Good stuff. Its just I’m not familiar enough with the history of hip-hop to really debate. Especially since I’m not fond of all of Tupac’s music and without knowing his stuff you have a void in the mid to late 90s with rap.
[quote]veruvius wrote:
veruvius wrote:
Yeah, a lot of great music comes from over there. I haven’t heard much of Del, mainly just the self-titled album. There is also the Gorillaz album, but I was never big on them. Have you ever heard of Tabla Beat Science? By no means hip-hop, but it’s some crazy polyrythmic shit.[/quote]
Del seems to mostly stick to Heiro crew releases like Full Circle. It’s both good and bad. Good because he shine’s above most of them, bad because they never really make excellent tracks. Though they don’t really make bad tracks either, they still sound like above all else they’re having fun.
I haven’t heard Tabla Beat Science, I’ll go grab some of it if I get the chance. Sounds interesting.
[quote]bandgeek wrote:
Garrett W. wrote:
I’m gonna go in reverse order. Yes, there are steps between African music and rap today. I’m sure you can trace the steps from the Beastie Boys and NWA to today… Not very tough. I don’t know exactly how it evolved and have no real urge to know. So I can’t really illuminate anymore. However on your first point… Yes, there are characteristics that make music the genre it is (Interesting debating the nomenclature of techno/electronica/trance/ blah blah blah). But if you’ve noticed the questions you asked aren’t really applicable to rap/hip-hop. As I recall rap developed from a random group that prohibited actual singing… And so it became as Prof X describes “poetry set to beats” and from there moved on out and now you hear singing on them… And more actual instruments.
You are right. I went back and reviewed my posts and I see where it may not have been clear what I was asking. My earlier generalization contained the statement that rap music does not emphasize harmony (defined as chord progressions, NOT as vertical vocal structuring) and melody. The Prof then said that statement was false and named a couple of groups. So I asked what made THOSE PARTICULAR GROUPS different in that respect (seems a logical question, no?). So my questions relating to harmony and melody were in response to what he said, and were related to the groups he mentioned.
Now, I guess I am to understand that it IS in fact about the rhythm and phrasing of the lyrics (as well as the message). In other words, I was apparently correct in that aspect of my observations. Again, if the music is poetry set to beats, fine. That is all I am asking. That, and what are the cultural influences. I suppose I can research that myself, but sometimes it is interesting to discuss these things with other people. I am interested in hearing some of the music out there that I am not likely to hear on the radio, and there were a lot of responses in that respect. I am probably older that the Prof, since I did not grow up with hip-hop as he says he did. It just wasn’t big then. I remember a friend plying the Sugar Hill Gang for me, and that was the closest thing going at the time. Anyway, sorry for not being clear and thanks to those who did respond. Now I have some bands to check out.[/quote]
Sugar Hill Gang - Rappers Delight was the first Hip-Hop record ever pressed for a label. 16 minutes of OMG WTF? I actually found an original pressing and got it for $7 at the best store in the Bay Area to find Vinyl in.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I just downloaded some old Diggable Planet. They had to be one of the first groups to flow jazz in with rhymes like that. Too bad they dropped from the scene so quick. [/quote]
Try Jazz Poets Society if it hasn’t already been said.
If you can find it, Infectious Organisms was a Richmond, VA based hip hop crew that released some of my favorite stuff of all time. Very unique sound, and a must listen. They released 3 albums before breaking up. A self-titled, Human Experience, and a very rare 4/28/01 live album.
And along with Atmosphere and Aesop Rock, anything on the Def Jux or Rhymesayers label is pretty good.
Grip Grand.
Gangstarr.
i would say check out saul williams… www.saulwilliams.com
wordsworth is dope. he had the nicest album out last year. you can go to www.worldwidecommunications.com i think
or halftooth.com
[quote]RIT Jared wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I just downloaded some old Diggable Planet. They had to be one of the first groups to flow jazz in with rhymes like that. Too bad they dropped from the scene so quick.
Try Jazz Poets Society if it hasn’t already been said.
If you can find it, Infectious Organisms was a Richmond, VA based hip hop crew that released some of my favorite stuff of all time. Very unique sound, and a must listen. They released 3 albums before breaking up. A self-titled, Human Experience, and a very rare 4/28/01 live album.
And along with Atmosphere and Aesop Rock, anything on the Def Jux or Rhymesayers label is pretty good.
Grip Grand.
Gangstarr.[/quote]
I’ll check 'em out. That is more of the sound I am looking for right now. I seem to go through phases of music.