Professor, I think you are too busy being pissed off about what you THINK I am saying to look at and speak to what I AM saying. I don’t have time right now…it’s a crazy day at work. I will answer later. Have a good day.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
But isn’t that just synchopated poetry? A dramatic reading with percussion?
Trying to find the ‘music’ value in Rap is a noble endeavor because I don’t think it exists - you just said as much . I’m not slamming the art form, but if you make a recording void of music, is it music?
It’s not the concept of rap music that difficult to understand. What doesn’t make sense is its classification as music.
[/quote]
You definitely have a point with that. SOME Hip-Hop may be hard to classify musically. Most of it, however, is musically based. Speaking of Eminem, his large success is due to his delivery and rather dramatic use of music in his delivery. There are some people who will buy music based simply off of the base line and rhythm. I think it may be key to point out that most Hip Hop would be nothing without music. What brings it together and makes it more than syncopated poetry is the marriage to rhythm and melody. I doubt most could stand independant of the other.
I find most of Mos Def’s work to be poetry set to music. Does that truly take away the musical aspect or define at less than music? I don’t think so. If anything, it may elevate it in most terms.
[quote]Breakdown wrote:
Professor X wrote:
in my MP3 player, I have Sean Paul
I was with you all the way until you mentioned this guy! IMO he’s useless - The guy couldn’t write his own lyrics if the world depended on it and how many times can one man mention his own name!![/quote]
Whatever, man. You know if some of those songs came on the speaker at the club, you would bob your head to it like everybody else. Also, I added him mostly because of an experience I had in South America when I was sent there on duty. The people down there love him. I started listening to him after that mostly because of that. It reminds me of them.
[quote]Breakdown wrote:
Has that got anything to do with the Jay-Z collaboration? I was surprised how much I liked some of that stuff.
[/quote]
Also, I was listening to Linkin Park before that. That collaboration just helped solidify them in mind as substantial.
[quote]bandgeek wrote:
Professor, I think you are too busy being pissed off about what you THINK I am saying to look at and speak to what I AM saying. I don’t have time right now…it’s a crazy day at work. I will answer later. Have a good day. [/quote]
Oddly enough I’m gonna defend PXO here and say that you’re obviously attacking the genre by placing it in a bad light pointing out what it lacks rather than what it’s good at. On a base level they have the same thing, rhythmn with drums, a bassline and a loop. Rock has it, country has it, pop has it, any modern music has it. The only thing lacking it is the complex intertwining of sounds that is classical music.
Personally I disagree with all PXO’s suggestions since I think Common Fell off, Talib is decent but sort of sold out, Mos sold out. The Roots basically sold out to appeal to everyone and they don’t lay down every track with their instruments, they’re about 50/50 on self-made versus sampling.
If you’re seriously interested in finding some melodious sounds in rap you could check some stuff by a group called Blackalicious, or a real easy to find song “Award Tour” by A Tribe Called Quest. You can find it on the “Boiler Room” soundtrack most likely.
Of course this comes from someone who thinks that rap has really gone downhill since about 1997 when all those independent underground artists you could hear on college radio gave up trying to get heard, letting commercial radio and image destroy them.
If you want some good rap to listen to go find some college radio playlists from groups back in the mid 90’s and try to find the tracks to listen to. Good luck though, if you don’t have them on the wax they were pressed to you might be out of luck.
If you really want to blow your mind with a mix of jazz and hip-hop culture look for stuff by “live human”. It’s improv music by a drummer, a bassist and a DJ. If you want to get even more crazy I suggest Ozomatli, hard to describe other than a mix of cumbia, salsa, latin, jazz, hip-hop, and a brazilian jazz band with a DJ.
Let me also plug my pal The Rookie’s audio blog as it’s got some decent representations of the stuff I prefer and you’re not likely to find. Even had mp3’s.
Comment and let him know if you like it.
[quote]alphuris wrote:
Let me also plug my pal The Rookie’s audio blog as it’s got some decent representations of the stuff I prefer and you’re not likely to find. Even had mp3’s.
Comment and let him know if you like it.
http://www.raggedyzine.com/blog/[/quote]
Created a Monster is worthy.
This is kinda outrageous. bandgeek… Its great whatever you do with classical music and traditions, but you havn’t listened to the roots of most rap music which is found from African tribal music. Most of which we can only hear what has evolved since they 1) don’t write music 2) don’t record music. So its kinda a moot point.
Secondly, the questions you are asking are akin to “What do you like better about Bach his lyrical flow or the content of his message?” Sorry man, you’re asking the wrong questions. I don’t think you’re embracing rap music for what it is, or trying to understand it for what it is. You’re trying to interpolate some classical shenanigans into an entirely different sphere of music.
[quote]alphuris wrote:
Oddly enough I’m gonna defend PXO here and say that you’re obviously attacking the genre by placing it in a bad light pointing out what it lacks rather than what it’s good at. On a base level they have the same thing, rhythmn with drums, a bassline and a loop. Rock has it, country has it, pop has it, any modern music has it. The only thing lacking it is the complex intertwining of sounds that is classical music.
[/quote]
That’s just it. I’m NOT attacking it. I don’t mean to put it in a bad light by simply observing what the dominant characteristics are! You and POX are right, though, I did make some less than glowing comments earlier based on what I have heard on the radio (and my comments stand in that they pertain ONLY to what I have heard on the radio). The Prof also correctly pointed out that this represents a limited exposure to the genre. I’ll say it agin, I always try to listen with an open mind, but that doesn’t mean I have heard everything. Hence the attempt to educate myself.
I don’t know, maybe I am just not being clear in my words. God knows it’s not the first time… cut to Family Guy-style flashback
[quote]Garrett W. wrote:
[T]he roots of most rap music [are] found from African tribal music.[/quote]
Thank you! This is the kind of answer I am looking for!
Not so. Any music has specific, definable characteristics that identify it. That is how you understand something - anything - for what it “is”. Hey, if it’s all about the rhythm, so be it! If it’s all about the message, so be it! I am not artiscally conceited just because I am educated. Music doesn’t have to be Bach counterpoint or have five million chord changes a second to be enjoyable, or even good!
I can give a basic rundown of the influences that led up to modern jazz (none of which, by the way, were written down in their time). There must be, somewhere, a series of intermediate steps between African tribal music and inner city America, just as there are a series of intermediate steps between late 19th century Black spirituals and Wynton Marsalis.
[quote]bandgeek wrote:
alphuris wrote:
Oddly enough I’m gonna defend PXO here and say that you’re obviously attacking the genre by placing it in a bad light pointing out what it lacks rather than what it’s good at. On a base level they have the same thing, rhythmn with drums, a bassline and a loop. Rock has it, country has it, pop has it, any modern music has it. The only thing lacking it is the complex intertwining of sounds that is classical music.
That’s just it. I’m NOT attacking it. I don’t mean to put it in a bad light by simply observing what the dominant characteristics are! You and POX are right, though, I did make some less than glowing comments earlier based on what I have heard on the radio (and my comments stand in that they pertain ONLY to what I have heard on the radio). The Prof also correctly pointed out that this represents a limited exposure to the genre. I’ll say it agin, I always try to listen with an open mind, but that doesn’t mean I have heard everything. Hence the attempt to educate myself.
I don’t know, maybe I am just not being clear in my words. God knows it’s not the first time… cut to Family Guy-style flashback[/quote]
Oh wait, you’re in Florida, there’s more to Hip-Hop than 2 Live Crew and DJ Magic Mike. Joking. Yes, the crap you hear on commercial radio does absolutely zero justice to the delicious underground of hip-hop. Maybe see if your local college radio has a Hip-Hop show and see if they actually play underground. College radio is now a crapshoot since half the stations want to be “as professional as possible” aka commercial clone, or as underground as possible a.k.a. college radio.
[quote]alphuris wrote:
If you’re seriously interested in finding some melodious sounds in rap you could check some stuff by a group called Blackalicious, or a real easy to find song “Award Tour” by A Tribe Called Quest. You can find it on the “Boiler Room” soundtrack most likely.
If you really want to blow your mind with a mix of jazz and hip-hop culture look for stuff by “live human”. It’s improv music by a drummer, a bassist and a DJ. If you want to get even more crazy I suggest Ozomatli, hard to describe other than a mix of cumbia, salsa, latin, jazz, hip-hop, and a brazilian jazz band with a DJ.[/quote]
Again, more of the type of feedback I am looking for. Thank you! I really like “drum and bass” music. Is that what you are referring to in your last paragraph?
To add to X’s list, Notorious BIG (my fav artist of all time), 2pac, Mobb Deep, and Ludacris (best hip-hop voice ever). When you listen to BIG and 2pac just close your eyes and visualize what they are saying. Its quite a ride.
Mystikal was able to deliver a James Brown’esque flow in his songs.
Linkin and Jay-Z’s 99 Problems is bananas (remix and original). Even though I dont like him personally, Eminem’s Mosh and Lose Yourself are amazing songs.
On the smoother side of things you have Maxwell, older 112 (Only you featuring BIG and MA$E is classic), older Mary J, old Total, Groove Theory, and The Brand New Heavies.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
-Talib Kwali
-Mos Def (he also has an HBO poetry gig that he does from time to time…I am into new soul and the rap artists associated with it)
-Common
-Kanye West (more hype but his lyrics are deeper than “I pulled up in my Escalade with my Bling Bling…”)
-The Roots
-Nas
Those are just some of the rap artists I listen to. My taste in music is broad as I write music and was recording and pursuing a record deal until I graduated. This usually leads to people thinking I rap. I don’t.
As far as vocalists:
-Jill Scott
-Erykah Badu
-John Legend (new artist that has one of the first cd’s I can put in the player and let run through the whole thing. The last I could do that with was D’Angelo’s Brown Sugar)
-Mario (his new CD shows he is more than average talent “Let me Love you” as the title track)
Other than that, in my MP3 player, I have Snoop Dogg, Mario, John Legend, DMX, 50 Cent, Linkin Park, Jay-Z, Kenye West, Sean Paul, Usher and Young Buck.
I listen to more than that, but that is what I lift to right now. I am beginning to like Linkin Park whereas I thought they were pretty “fake” at first.[/quote]
Outkast should be included in the list. Their music is very diverse. And if you want to go old school (though not really really old school), BDP and KRS One, who rapped about social issues.
[quote]PGA200X wrote:
… and Ludacris (best hip-hop voice ever).[/quote]
Got to disagree there. Best rap voice ever was Chuck D of Public Enemy.
Here’s my list:
Aceyalone
Aesop Rock
Atmosphere
Blackalicious
Common
Dead Prez
Deltron 3030
Dilated Peoples
Hieroglyphics
Immortal Technique
Jedi Mind Tricks
Lyrics Born
Rahzel
In addition to everything else that’s been said. Don’t rule out all mainstream, though.
If you guys want a different take on hip-hop check out Mike Ladd, especially the series albums Infesticons: Gun Hill Road and Majesticons: Beauty Party.
I’d try to explain the premise behind the albums but you probably wouldn’t take it seriously; Just trust me.
Nick
[quote]veruvius wrote:
Here’s my list:
Aceyalone
Aesop Rock
Atmosphere
Blackalicious
Common
Dead Prez
Deltron 3030
Dilated Peoples
Hieroglyphics
Immortal Technique
Jedi Mind Tricks
Lyrics Born
Rahzel
In addition to everything else that’s been said. Don’t rule out all mainstream, though. [/quote]
Wow, you’ve got a lot of Bay Area in there. Good stuff too. Did you like Del’s older stuff as well?
[quote]alphuris wrote:
If you’re seriously interested in finding some melodious sounds in rap you could check “Award Tour” by A Tribe Called Quest.
[/quote]
Superb choice! One of my all time favourite.
I’m by no means a Hip Hop expert but I prefer the stuff from over 10 years ago compared to the stuff that is produced today. I think that most artists today are too worried about image (e.g. Sean Paul - sorry Prof, he makes me cringe lol). Hip Hop seemed so much more care free and “fresh” back then - stuff like “express yourself” by NWA or some of the stuff by De La Soul, The Sugarhill Gang, Whistle, Public Enemy, Kurtis Blow, Big Daddy Kane, Grandmaster Flash and Run DMC etc… You get the idea!
[quote]alphuris wrote:
veruvius wrote:
Here’s my list:
Aceyalone
Aesop Rock
Atmosphere
Blackalicious
Common
Dead Prez
Deltron 3030
Dilated Peoples
Hieroglyphics
Immortal Technique
Jedi Mind Tricks
Lyrics Born
Rahzel
In addition to everything else that’s been said. Don’t rule out all mainstream, though.
Wow, you’ve got a lot of Bay Area in there. Good stuff too. Did you like Del’s older stuff as well?[/quote]
Yeah, a lot of great music comes from over there. I haven’t heard much of Del, mainly just the self-titled album. There is also the Gorillaz album, but I was never big on them. Have you ever heard of Tabla Beat Science? By no means hip-hop, but it’s some crazy polyrythmic shit.