P, C, & Fat % Ratio for Fat Loss?

Diet and Nutrition
41

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
Here’s what we do on the PWO meal after tennis practice.

When you get the chance, pick up a postal scale that measures in grams and tenths of an ounce. [/quote]

Would my meals look like this?

PWO Meal = 30g protein / 60g carb (in form of oats, s.potato, b.rice, maybe bread?!?)

P+C = protein + fruit

P+F = protein + fish oil/flax seeds/olive oil + veggies

Were are going to fit the beans? I like the idea of having a soup made of shrimps + beans…in the evening.

Thanks for the advise on buying a scale I’m going on Monday.

42

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Hi everybody,

I’m 27y, 168cm tall, 75kg = overweight. No idea what my BF % is, don’t care either.

My question is: How much protein, carb,fat should I be eating in order to lose fat effectively?

I’m a very active female tennis player with a good muscular base.

I’d be grateful for any feedback from you guys.

Thanks a lot.[/quote]

Is that you in the film? You definitely don’t look overweight to me although the pic quality wasn’t great.

43

How can one know how much of muscle one has. Because the BMI index sucks.

I have to get a better camera this video is just too bad. I was going to show a bit of what I do on the court.

This video was taken 3 years ago and my coach called it : “Lucy gets happy feet”.
Because it was the first time I started moving properly on the court. he he

44

Juicy Lucy, I owe YOU a big thanks for starting a thread with such excellent and bare-bones discussion of nutrition basics. I always find that reading other people’s questions and feedback helps me understand my choices better… or question their rationale!

I am also an athlete and have worked with Tampa Terry to get my nutrition in order. Since all of us have different goals, different bodies, lives, etc. it’s a dream come true to have someone help develop a customized program based on a very sustainable and realistic framework for nutrition. A few things I have learned… basic, but helpful (for me, at least)

  1. Keep it simple and don’t “stress” if you don’t find your flow right away. It’s totally normal (and healthy!) for your body to lose or even gain some water while you’re adjusting to new eating habits

  2. Eat for performance. This is THE best piece of advice TT gave me and as long as I kept performance and recovery in my mind, eating right was just a matter of treating myself well.

Even now, during my off-season, I find that healthy habits keep my energy levels high and I don’t suffer the kinds of weight fluctuations that I see in my teammates, year-round. I just get a bit leaner in season and that’s a by-product of being tuned into my body and my sports.

As athletes, it’s extra important for us to build a strong mind-body connection and to take extra good care of ourselves! I did carb cycling on-season and since it wasn’t planned down to perfection I got super lean but was really hurting for energy during training/games.

  1. Attitude is everything! You are miles beyond the average Jane/Joe by virtue of your desire to make slow and lasting changes. I admire your quest to learn and question processes and methods. Most people just want to be handed an “eating plan” but you really have a great sense of enthusiasm for learning.

I have no doubt that you are going to see HUGE perfomance and physique improvements with a healthy, balanced attitude.

A looonnng post to say, great job so far. I will be eagerly following along to see how things go for you. You’ve stimulated some excellent discussion, and I second the suggestion to check out Mittleman’s “Slowburn”.
He really explores the importance of tuning in and creating a dialogue between mind and muscle.

This book (and a few other reads) have really caused a paradigm shift in the way I view the importance of fats for perfomance and body comp.

TT, thanks for explaining everything in such detail. It really makes for such interesting discussion!

45

[quote]Bonn1997 wrote:
Is that you in the film? You definitely don’t look overweight to me although the pic quality wasn’t great.

[/quote]
I think it is me on the video. (who else?!?).
I take it back. I’m not overweight I just need to lean out.

46

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Mod Lisa Marie wrote:
Sorry to interupt but…
I love your BT!

No, your bull terrier is cute!Looks like a prima dona. Mine’s ugly as hell. He thinks he’s human, tries to sit in chairs …
[/quote]

Your BT is adorable too. He looks very rough and tumble. Mine is def not a prima donna…she loves to run and play and get dirty. I’m the prima donna…I insist she takes a bath at least once a day and I wash her feet as soon as she comes in the house. Lucky thinks she human too and wants to eat off of my plate. NoWAY!!!

Here’s another pic maybe they will fall in love!! Lucky said he’s the cutest boy she has ever seen!!!

47

[quote]proxy wrote:
it’s a dream come true to have someone help develop a customized program based on a very sustainable and realistic framework for nutrition.
This book (and a few other reads) have really caused a paradigm shift in the way I view the importance of fats for perfomance and body comp.

TT, thanks for explaining everything in such detail. It really makes for such interesting discussion![/quote]

Thanks Proxy, it means a lot to me and it is definitely a dream come true :))

Good advise you’ve got there. That’s what I’m dong: making life simpler in order to get close to my competitive goals.

I’m going to buy the book as I’ve already looked it up and seems a very interesting read.

Yeah, TT is a GREAT help, I could have not wished for more!

If any other book pops into your head, please let me know…

Cheers

48

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Would my meals look like this?

PWO Meal = 30g protein / 60g carb (in form of oats, s.potato, b.rice, maybe bread?!?)

P+C = protein + fruit

P+F = protein + fish oil/flax seeds/olive oil + veggies

Were are going to fit the beans? I like the idea of having a soup made of shrimps + beans…in the evening.

Thanks for the advise on buying a scale I’m going on Monday.[/quote]

You totally nailed it!!! (big grin)

The BEST place to put your beans is in a P+C meal (the one exception being your PWO meal). But honestly, I tell people to include their beans in whatever meal they’re hungriest. Some people are hungriest before bed. Others are hungriest at lunch time. Put 'em in wherever you need 'em most.

49

Another book I like people to check out is “The Omega Rx Zone” by Barry Sears. Mostly it’s about HEALTH benefits of adding in fish oil high in EPA and DHA, but there’s an incredible chapter on how fish oil improves athletic performance. If you can find it in the bookstore, it will only take you 20 minutes to read the chapter.

A friend of mine is a “Masters” marathon runner. That means he’s above the age of 40. He’s been running for 20 years and followed your typical high-carb runner’s diet, did the carb loads prior to his run, the whole 9 yards. I increased his protein, optimized post-run and post-workout nutrition and added in fish oil. A few months later, he went out and set a new PR/PB (personal record/personal best). He had never supplemented with fish oil or Omega 3s and was so deprived in that regard that he’d drink his fish oil right out of the bottle!! He said it was better than coffee! (grin)

I am a huge advocate of cutting the bad fat out of your diet and adding in the good fat. Eating fat does not make you fat. Avoiding fat will make you fat. Sounds contradictory, huh? (grin)

When you eat dietary fat, your body has to make lipolytic enzymes to break down that fat. Those same lipolytic enzymes are the ones that help your body break down STORED body fat when your body experiences what it thinks are temporary/transient caloric deficits!!!

You’re definitely on the right track, Lucy!!!

50

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
You totally nailed it!!! (big grin)

[/quote]

I won’t make you grin any bigger, O.K? :slight_smile: Might not be good for your wrinkles :wink:

Thanks again.
I’ve already got a couple of Sear’s books. The only thing I was missing in them were the numbers. He only uses a palm measurement and I,myself, prefer grams, etc. I will go and have a look for the book on the fish oil.

I’ve got another question. This PWO meal is confusing me. I’ll explain :

One should have it after more then 1 hour of “intense” cardio exercise or after resistance training(= here you’re talking about lifting weights I guess).

Two questions:

1 What do we mean when we say “intense cardio”. For example one’s heart rate would be in between x % and x %, if you can put it this way.

2 And secondly, the resistance training. There, seems to me, the duration or/and intensity of it doesn’t matter?!?

Can the body recover/refill the glycogen in the muscle if the intense exercise doesn’t exceed 1 hour?

And what is “dietary fat”?

I’m doing very well I must say. I’m fighting to get the right amount of protein. Which is fun. I don?t miss pasta or bread ( I used to eat a lot of those ). And cheese feels empty, protein wise anyway. I don’t notice a lack of energy or anything. Only one thing I’m having difficulty with - to fall asleep. I’m thinking of getting ZMA ( zinc & magnesium if I’m right).

Thanks a lot for your time. And if you need to work on your tennis, you know where to go.

Ciao

51

[quote]Mod Lisa Marie wrote:
JuicyLucy wrote:
Mod Lisa Marie wrote:

Here’s another pic maybe they will fall in love!! Lucky said he’s the cutest boy she has ever seen!!! [/quote]

The dog is useless. He doesn’t see the beauty in Lucky.
I’d tried to show him the picture, honest, he just kept licking the screen.
Sorry!

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It may or may not help with sleep. Nonetheless, I’d still like to see you start taking ZMA. Athletes tend to be deficient in magnesium (the M part of ZMA), and sometimes they train so hard that their immune systems starts to suffer and they find themselves coming down with colds and flus. The zinc will help with the latter.

For sleep get some melatonin. It’s an awesome supp and not at all expensive. It will regulate your sleep cycle and also has antioxidant benefits. Try taking 3mg one hour before you’d like to be falling asleep. It works best on an empty stomach if possible. If the hour goes by and you’re not asleep, take more. Keep on taking some on the hour until you zonk out. If you have to take multiple doses, the next night try a higher amount If you wake up and are groggy, you took too much and should back off a little bit. You have to find the right dose for you.

The Omega Rx Zone is different than Barry’s other books. It’s really about the health benefits of Omega 3 fatty acids in general and fish oil in particular.

I’m happy to hear that you’re not experiencing any energy problems. Keep an eye on that. It can take a few days for glycogen stores to become depleted and for energy levels to start to suffer. If it happens, it’s one of those things that will creep up on you … just like jthsiao was noticing.

It sounds like you have everything dialed in pretty well. If you want to post a whole day’s plan and numbers and amounts, I’d be glad to take a look at it and see if there are any opportunities. But then again, if you’re making steady progress towards your goals, it doesn’t really matter whether it’s perfect or not. (laughing)

Okay, let’s talk about PWO nutrition.

As it relates to cardio, I don’t care whether it’s intense or not. If it’s less than one hour in duration, you don’t get starchy carbs. Even if it’s endurance type cardio (which isn’t as “intense” as something like HIIT), you do get PWO nutrition if it lasts longer than one hour.

Even if your resistance training is only 20-30 minutes, you get PWO starchy carbs. I’m sure you’re in the gym giving it your all, so once again, I don’t care about intensity.

The difference between dietary fat and stored fat is that the former is the fat you eat and the latter is the “fluffy stuff” you’re trying to get rid of. (grin)

Make sure you’re weighing and measuring each week. Friday is the day I prefer. When I say measure, I’m talking about the following body parts:

  • chest
  • right arm (bicep)
  • waist
  • butt
  • right thigh
  • right calf

I need that information every week along with your weight if you want to hold me accountable for your progress.

Good questions, Lucy!!! Did I miss anything?

53

O.K. I’m going to provide you with my stats and diet log:

I’m left handed so I’ll be measuring the left half of my body.

Calf: 15.7 in
Thigh: 25 in
Butt: 41.7 in
Waist: 31.5 in (the narrowest bit)
Bicep 12.6 in
Chest: 37.4 in

Weight: 168.8 lb

The daily log as for today:

XX 8.30 Wake-up
XX 9.30 - 13.25 tennis

09.00 2 egg whites, 1/2 whole egg, 4.4oz mozzarella, 1/2 Tbsp olive oil, 2 cups fresh spinach, 1/2 cup alfa-alfa, banana
397 cal, P29/F20/C29

11.30 repeat ^ + apple
385 cal, P28/F20/C26

14.30 40g whey protein, 2 Tbsp flax seeds, yogurt
300 cal, P42/F8/C18

17.00 3/4 cup shrimps, 1/2 cup chickpeas, 1 Tbsp olive oil, 3 cups cabbage, 1.76oz smoked salmon
1045 cal, P64/F27/C48

XX18.30 45 min run

20.00 2 oranges
123 cal…nice number, P2/0/C31

22.30 40g whey protein, 2 Tbsp flax seeds, yogurt, 1/2 fish oil
321 cal P42/F12/C18

Total:
1964 cal, P178/F69/C171

Well, well. That was it for today. Please, let me know what you think. To me it looks “spot on”. HA HA At least with the fat.

Take care!

54

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Well, well. That was it for today. Please, let me know what you think. To me it looks “spot on”. HA HA At least with the fat.
[/quote]
Just to murky up the waters a little bit, do you have the Sat./Poly./Mono. breakdown of your fat content? In addition to eating BW * 0.4 in grams of fat, I believe we’d also want an even distribution of the different fats.

Just by looking at the food that you’re eating, it looks like you have a good variation of each. But, do you know quantitatively how much of each you’re getting? I was just wondering if you’ve done the math for that yet. :slight_smile:

55

[quote]jthsiao wrote:

Just to murky up the waters a little bit, do you have the Sat./Poly./Mono. breakdown of your fat content? In addition to eating BW * 0.4 in grams of fat, I believe we’d also want an even distribution of the different fats.

Just by looking at the food that you’re eating, it looks like you have a good variation of each. But, do you know quantitatively how much of each you’re getting? I was just wondering if you’ve done the math for that yet. :-)[/quote]

Thanks for pointing that out. I’ve done the math ( 66g / 3 = 22g sat, 22g mono, 22g poly ). Easy so far.
1 Tbsp olive oil, 3.5 Tbsp flax seeds, 1 Tbsp fish oil and the rest sat fatties.

Thanks for looking out for me. I’m enjoying your threat very much, you’re clearing some water for me.

Keep up the good work, mate.

56

Wow!!! Reading your food choices is making me hungry. (grin)

I’m loving your choice of veggies. And good for you, figuring out that you could borrow a little fat from your P+F meals to make your eggs. Here’s some more numbers to hit, though, since you’re new to P+F and P+C eating:

Try to keep fat in P+C meals to <5g.
Try to keep carbs in P+F meal to <10g.

Your food choices are incredible!!! Cheese, peanut butter and nuts are foods that aren’t off limits, but need to be handled with care. On the cheese, use it as a garnish limit it to less than one ounce. 1 large egg has 5g of fat, so you really have a choice between one TEASPOON (not tablespoon) of olive oil (5g of fat) or 1 whole egg (5g of fat).

Question on the fruit? Are you measuring out 80-100 calories worth? With apples each ounce is 15 calories, so you’d need 6 ounces. With bananas, they’re 25 calories per ounces, so you’d need 4 ounces.

Your meal at 20.00 needs a protein source. Dividing your weight by the 6 “meals” you eat, you should be getting 27.5g of protein in each and every one of those meals.

You really did an incredible job, there, Lucy!!! It’s one of the best first efforts I’ve ever seen. If you play tennis like you design diets, methinks the tennis world had better watch out!! (big grin)

57

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:

Try to keep fat in P+C meals to <5g.
Try to keep carbs in P+F meal to <10g.

Your food choices are incredible!!!
Cheese, peanut butter and nuts are foods that aren’t off limits, but need to be handled with care. On the cheese, use it as a garnish limit it to less than one ounce. 1 large egg has 5g of fat, so you really have a choice between one TEASPOON (not tablespoon) of olive oil (5g of fat) or 1 whole egg (5g of fat).

Question on the fruit? Are you measuring out 80-100 calories worth? With apples each ounce is 15 calories, so you’d need 6 ounces. With bananas, they’re 25 calories per ounces, so you’d need 4 ounces.

Your meal at 20.00 needs a protein source. Dividing your weight by the 6 “meals” you eat, you should be getting 27.5g of protein in each and every one of those meals.

You really did an incredible job, there, Lucy!!! It’s one of the best first efforts I’ve ever seen. If you play tennis like you design diets, methinks the tennis world had better watch out!! (big grin)[/quote]

You are too good to me.

Is the fruit really so important? Can’t I be eating more then 100 cal of?Is there something that i’m missing?

It’s a briliant advice on the amount of carbs in P+C & P+F meals.

I’m still not used to searching for so much protein in the supermarkets. It’s pretty hard because there’s so much crap. It’s all carbohydrates and sugar!!

I have to watch out on the meals without any protein, I’m so used eating fruit on it’s own.

Thanks a lot. You are an artist!!!

58

I’m limiting you on the fruit, yes, but that doesn’t mean that we might not raise it down the road.

Let’s establish a baseline and see what kind of progress you make, and then if you lose weight too quickly or your energy levels are sub-par, we’ll raise what we need to.

You are doing awesome Lucy!!! You are well on your way to becoming a LEAN, MEAN TENNIS MACHINE. (grin) Just make sure you update me on your progress and your energy levels every week (or sooner on the energy levels if you have a problem). Weigh and measure out of bed on Friday morning, after you hit the restroom, sans clothes if possible or wearing the exact same clothes if not.

And make sure you allow yourself one meal every week that you eat whatever you want, whatever you’ve been missing. It’s a meal that you don’t measure, weigh, count or try to correctly combine macronutrients. You can have chocolate, wine, a Chinese buffet. You can go to a cookout or a tailgate party or a wedding reception. I usually recommend that people weigh in on Friday and have their free meal on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.

How does that sound? (grin)

59

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
And make sure you allow yourself one meal every week that you eat whatever you want, whatever you’ve been missing. It’s a meal that you don’t measure, weigh, count or try to correctly combine macronutrients. You can have chocolate, wine, a Chinese buffet. You can go to a cookout or a tailgate party or a wedding reception. I usually recommend that people weigh in on Friday and have their free meal on Friday, Saturday or Sunday.
[/quote]
What is the idea behind the cheat meal? I know for some people, it’s a great psychological boost to be able to cheat once a week. However, wouldn’t it be more ideal if one doesn’t cheat at all? I don’t see the point of taking a half a step back every week.

Ever since I started incorporating morning walks into my routine, it really hits home how hard it is to “exercise” off some excess calories. So, adding an extra 500-1000 calories on cheat days, especially when the food is ill-timed and has horrible macro combinations (C+F), doesn’t make that much sense to me. That’s a couple of extra NEPA just to walk the cheat meal off and get back to where I was at the end of the last week.

Of course, if a person really need it for psychological or just “have a life” reason, I understand. But does that apply to someone like me who likes routines? I’m perfectly happy going about my schedule everyday. Are there other reasons to break from the routine once a week to necessitate a “make sure you do this” recommendation?

60

Why have a cheat/treat/free meal once a week? (grin)

Because we’re trying to create a new LIFESTYLE. The problem with diets in general is that as soon as you go back to your old (more pleasurable & tasty) way of eating, you start gaining weight and body fat.

For whatever reason, our social get-togethers and celebrations usually involve food. JB is happy with >90% compliance. One cheat meal a week would put Lucy at over 97%. (grin)

It does help psychologically, yes, and it doesn’t hinder a person’s progress. One meal will not negate 34. If it does, the problem doesn’t lie in the cheat/treat/free meal … it lies in the diet itself.

I’d actually encourage you to allow yourself one meal a week, too, jthsiao. The only “rule” is that you’re not allowed to jump on the scale the next day. (grin)

Having a cheat/treat/free meal isn’t a breakdown or a lack of discipline. It’s a planned-for event. Personally, I like to have my cheat/treat/free meal at the end of the day. When I wake up the next morning, I’m back on track, following my plan.

Properly done, a cheat/treat/free meal puts the “quality” back into “quality of life.”

Pizza & beer or brownies, anyone? (grin)