P, C, & Fat % Ratio for Fat Loss?

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
07.15 45 min. run or HIIT

M1 08.00 tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
[/quote]

This jumped out at me when I was reading about your plan. I’ve read about NEPA in the morning in a fasted state, but that works because the NEPA isn’t supposed to be stressful enough to drain muscle glycogen levels.

However, your plan calls for fasted HIIT which would drain your muscle glycogen while your body is in a catabolic state in the mornings. This would lead to muscle loss. I think we’re supposed to treat HIIT sessions like anaerobic workout, where we’d want to have elevated levels of insulin with some “fast” proteins in our body.

When I used to workout in the mornings, I’d have some Surge! or at least some Gatorade mixed with Grow! whey. This would ensure that I raise my insulin levels so to support the anaerobic stress from a workout. Maybe it’d help to add in something like that too?

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
JuicyLucy wrote:
07.15 45 min. run or HIIT

M1 08.00 tennis from 8.30 until 01.30

This jumped out at me when I was reading about your plan. I’ve read about NEPA in the morning in a fasted state, but that works because the NEPA isn’t supposed to be stressful enough to drain muscle glycogen levels.

However, your plan calls for fasted HIIT which would drain your muscle glycogen while your body is in a catabolic state in the mornings. This would lead to muscle loss. I think we’re supposed to treat HIIT sessions like anaerobic workout, where we’d want to have elevated levels of insulin with some “fast” proteins in our body.

When I used to workout in the mornings, I’d have some Surge! or at least some Gatorade mixed with Grow! whey. This would ensure that I raise my insulin levels so to support the anaerobic stress from a workout. Maybe it’d help to add in something like that too?[/quote]

Ohhh… Thanks I have not realized that. I’ll shift HIIT to the afternoons. No problem. How are you doing with your nutrition?

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Ohhh… Thanks I have not realized that. I’ll shift HIIT to the afternoons. No problem. How are you doing with your nutrition?
[/quote]

I’m making progress myself, I guess. I’ll make an update to that thread later this afternoon, when I’m done with a much-need PWO meal. :slight_smile:

Re the times of your meals in relationship to your 7:15 cardio, ne of my dietary “Ten Commandments” is …

[center]Thou shalt not do higher intensity cardio in a fasted state!" [/center]

But let me explain why. When a person wakes up in the morning, they haven’t eaten in 8 or more hours and they’re in a catabolic state; i.e., they’re breaking down muscle. Now you go do some running or HIIT which raises cortisol levels even higher. Cortisol is a stress hormone. Cortisol breaks down muscle to raise blood sugar levels, which is the energy substrate that the brain (and a few other things in the body) prefers.

Now, yes, you did burn a few calories, but you probably burned up more muscle than fat. Not that the body can’t replace it, but you didn’t do yourself any good from a body composition perspective. Remember, we have dual goals … to protect LBM (and add to it if we can) and reduce FM (fat mass).

I don’t care if you run or do HIIT in the morning before tennis practice, but you need to get something on your stomach before you do. 20g of whey protein (mixed with coffee, if you like) a half hour to an hour before you run would be PERFECT!!! Can you set a second alarm, chug down your shake, and go back to bed for 20 zzzz’s? I’d actually propose something like this:

M1 06.30 20g o’ whey protein w/ or w/out coffee
XX 07.15 → 45 min. run or HIIT
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00
M3 12.00
M4 03.00
XX 05.00 → Gym 2xper week from 3 to 4
M5 06.00
M6 09.00
XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

On the days you go to the gym and do resistance training, Meal 5 would a PWO meal that included starchy carbs.

Remember that you can have 5 or 6 meals. If ever you decided to do your HIIT or 45-minute run at 05:00, you could just switch to a 5-meal format, meaning

If you’re eating 5 meals, your protein requirements are 33g per meal
If you’re eating 6 meals (one meal being the 20g of whey), your protein requirements are 29g per meal.

Do the math and see if it doesn’t add up.

It does not look like I’ll be able to eat any eggs without going over the limit of 66g of fat???..hmmm

Since your fat requirements are 66g per day, we want 1/3 of that number to be monounsaturated (like olive oil), 1/3 to be saturated fat (like in the lean protein sources you choose) and 1/3 to be polyunsaturated fat (like in flaxseed and fish oil). So let’s do 1 tablespoon of fish oil and 1.5 tablespoons (before you grind it, and you do need to grind it!) of flax seeds. The 1.5 tablespoons of flax seeds should put you at about 6g of fat.

I have no problem with your having whole eggs. You’ll probably be able to fit them in and hit your numbers if you pick leaner protein sources for your other meal. If you’re having a P+F meal, you can have whole eggs. If you’re having a P+C meal (with fruit), then you’d do better to have an egg white omelet and one whole egg for flavor/texture with veggies and fruit. I don’t save my eggs just for breakfast. I’ll eat them any time of the day or night. Our ideas about food change when we start eating for performance and body composition.

Once we agree on the times, I’m going to add the P+C and P+F part of things to the time. Want to take a stab at it? (grin)

If you have friends/family in the States, you may be able to get them to ship you some Flameout and Surge. But if you can’t get it or the price is too high, we’ll figure out some alternatives for you.

superdad4’s advice/recommendation re the Precision Nutrition CD is excellent!!!

And I didn’t read jthsiao’s post until after I typed my reply! He is correct!!! (grin)

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
I’d be grateful for any feedback from you guys.[/quote]

Well, if you’ve got Tampa-Terry in your corner, you aren’t going to need much more. If you want to further your education in this area, search for TT`s posts over the past several years. Quite instructive!

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:

M1 06.30 20g o’ whey protein w/ or w/out coffee
XX 07.15 → 45 min. run or HIIT
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00
M3 12.00
M4 03.00
XX 05.00 → Gym 2xper week from 3 to 4
M5 06.00
M6 09.00
XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

On the days you go to the gym and do resistance training, Meal 5 would a PWO meal that included starchy carbs.

(grin)[/quote]

The time table sounds good. On the days that I’m not going to the gym I can do cardio in the afternoons. (5.00 p.m.) and have PWO meal afterwards.

Does it mean that there’s no PWO meal after my tennis practice???

What about eating too much canned tuna? Is there a problem? How much is “safe”?I’ve heard about high levels of mercury in tuna. I could start eating sardines and more wild salmon.

O.k. Now I’ll try to put down the building stones of my diet based on 165g of P, 66g of F:

M1 06.30 20g o’ whey protein w/ or w/out coffee
XX 07.15 → 45 min. run or HIIT
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00 P+C
M3 12.00 P+F
M4 03.00 P+F 40g of w.protein
XX 05.00 → Gym 2xper week from 3 to 4
M5 06.00 P+C PWO
M6 09.00 P+F
XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

Fat(66g) - 1,5 Tbsp of olive oil (21g)
- 3 Tbsp of flax seeds + 1 Tbsp of fish oil (26g)

  • ONLY 19g left to fit in my lean protein???

Well my brain is cooking…can’t do anymore at the moment.

It’s over to you:)) I’m going to take that lazy dog of mine out.

[quote]T-Bone2 wrote:
JuicyLucy wrote:
I’d be grateful for any feedback from you guys.

Well, if you’ve got Tampa-Terry in your corner, you aren’t going to need much more. If you want to further your education in this area, search for TT`s posts over the past several years. Quite instructive!

[/quote]

Thanks I’m going through them …

Well I found this: “Metabolic Surge - Rapid Fat Loss - Meal Plan” by J.Berardi :
and I think I’m going to borrow it…

M1 06.30 20g o’ whey protein w/ or w/out coffee
XX 07.15 → 45 min. run or HIIT
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00 1 cup cottage cheese
------------1/2 oz Almonds
------------1 Tbsp flax seeds
------------5g fish oil

M3 12.00 4 0z lean meat
------------4 cups spinach
------------1 Tbsp olive oil
------------5g fish oil

M4 03.00 4 oz lean meat
------------4 cups spinach
------------1 Tbsp olive oil

XX 05.00 → Gym 2xper week from 3 to 4
M5 06.00 4 oz lean meat
------------4 cups spinach
------------1/2 oz walnuts
------------1 Tbsp olive oil

M6 09.00 1 cup egg whites
------------1 cup spinach
------------1 serving greens+

XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

Grand total: 167/29C/94F …1612cal

High carb low fat looks like this:

M1 06.30 20g o’ whey protein w/ or w/out coffee
XX 07.15 → 45 min. run or HIIT
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00 1 cup egg whites
------------1 cup spinach
------------1/3 cup oats
------------Fresh veggies x 2
------------1 serving of fruit

M3 12.00 30g w.protein
------------1/3 cup oats
------------1 serving greens+
------------1 cup mixed berries
------------1/2 cup fat free yogurt

M4 03.00 4 oz extra lean meat
------------1/2 cup red/pink lentils (cooked)
------------veggies (fresh frozen) x 3

XX 05.00 → Gym 2xper week from 3 to 4
M5 06.00 4 oz extra lean meat
------------1 sweet potato
------------veggies(fresh or frozen) x 3
------------3g fish oil

M6 09.00 30g w.protein blend
------------1 serving greens+
------------1 cup mixed berries
------------1/2 cup fat free yogurt

XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

There’s only one problem, hmm maybe two, I cannot get cottage cheese anywhere in Spain. Is there a substitute to it?What about mozzarella? Is it good enough?

I know it is a bit high on fat and low on carb. It’s supposed to be 5 days low carb and high fat, 5 days high carb and low fat.

If anyone’s interested I can send them the whole file.

What do you think?

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Well I found this: “Metabolic Surge - Rapid Fat Loss - Meal Plan” by J.Berardi :

I know it is a bit high on fat and low on carb. It’s supposed to be 5 days low carb and high fat, 5 days high carb and low fat.
[/quote]
I guess since Dr. Berardi’s name is attached to it, it adds to the merit of the program. Although, I wouldn’t say this is one of his programs. It’s a program that he helped planned out meals, but it looks like someone else designed the program.

I found the program in this link:
fitstep.com/metabolic-surge/
metabolic-surge-rapid-fat-loss.htm

I wonder how that works, alternating P+C and P+F for a number of days, almost without regards of one’s workout schedule and such. Doesn’t that go against Berardi’s theory on post-workout nutrition? That was his Ph. D dissertation. Is this program keying off of some kind of rebound reaction when the body is lacking carbs at one time, then lacking fat at another time?

I guess I don’t have any expertise I can add to this. I’m just a bit confused by how this works. I’ll follow this with a dose of skepticism and definitely give us a report if you follow through with this plan.

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
JuicyLucy wrote:
Well I found this: “Metabolic Surge - Rapid Fat Loss - Meal Plan” by J.Berardi :

I know it is a bit high on fat and low on carb. It’s supposed to be 5 days low carb and high fat, 5 days high carb and low fat.

I guess since Dr. Berardi’s name is attached to it, it adds to the merit of the program. Although, I wouldn’t say this is one of his programs. It’s a program that he helped planned out meals, but it looks like someone else designed the program.

I found the program in this link:
fitstep.com/metabolic-surge/
metabolic-surge-rapid-fat-loss.htm

I wonder how that works, alternating P+C and P+F for a number of days, almost without regards of one’s workout schedule and such. Doesn’t that go against Berardi’s theory on post-workout nutrition? That was his Ph. D dissertation. Is this program keying off of some kind of rebound reaction when the body is lacking carbs at one time, then lacking fat at another time?

I guess I don’t have any expertise I can add to this. I’m just a bit confused by how this works. I’ll follow this with a dose of skepticism and definitely give us a report if you follow through with this plan. [/quote]

I know. It sounds weird. If I try it I am pretty sure it’ll work. Because the state I’m in anything will work. You get my drift.

Being a beginner has got this advantage of instant improvement.

I’ll keep you updated anyway. Starting tomorrow.
But this is not what I’m trying to do. I’m developing a eating plan/style/program that I can be following every day. No fast gains or loses.

So any ideas,that would add to my plan, are more then welcome.

Cheers

I suppose combining the two programs ( low carb - high fat one day and high carb-low fat other)and putting it into ONE day would probably be the KEY. Don’t you think so?

[quote]jthsiao wrote:

I found the program in this link:
fitstep.com/metabolic-surge/
metabolic-surge-rapid-fat-loss.htm

[/quote]

You KNOW too MUCH!!! LOL

Here’s what we do on the PWO meal after tennis practice.

Some of your practice is probably going to be intense. Other parts won’t be. Keep a mental tally in your head. If the intense part of your practice is greater than 1 hour in duration, have that 2:1 ratio of starchy carbs to protein in the meal following tennis practice.

No matter how long your practice is, if the intense part of it isn’t greater than one hour in duration, skip the starchy carbs. The meal will be the same except for adding in or leaving out the starchy carbs. Make Meal 4 a P+C meal. Remember that you should have a serving of fruit in all of your P+C meals.

Only if cardio is greater than 1 hour in duration (yours is not) do I recommend starchy carbs in the meal following cardio. But if weight loss is too fast or energy levels start to suck, I’d be open to adding them in at that point.

What we’re trying to do is teach your body how to use fat instead of demanding carbs. If you get the chance, pick up (or order) Stu Mittleman’s book, “Slow Burn.” Stu is a very non-traditional (dietarily, that is) ultra-marathon runner. Stu ran 1,000 miles in 11 days, 20 hours 36 min. 56 sec. in 1986. He was able to do what he did because his body is “fat adapted.” He taught it to use stored fat.

  • ONLY 19g left to fit in my lean protein???

(grin) Here are some things that will provide you with 30g of protein that are low in fat:

Whey Protein (1 scoop) = 22g protein, 2g fat
Boiled Shrimp (5 ounces) = 30g protein, 0g fat
Cooked Tilapia (4.3 ounces) = 30g protein, 3.5g fat
Egg whites (8 ounces by weight) + 1 whole large egg = 30g protein, 5g fat

I couldn’t remember if you ate chicken or not, but that’s another protein source high in protein, low in fat. Tuna is also.

You asked about tuna. The FDA (Food & Drug Association) here in the States recommends that people not consume more than 3 cans of light tuna per week. Albacore tuna is higher in mercury than chunk light, and it’s recommended that consumption of albacore be limited to once per week … one can, that is.

So on days you do resistance training, your plan should look like this:

M1 06.30 P-only
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00 P+C
M3 12.00 P+F
M4 03.00 P+C
XX 05.00 → Resistance Training
M5 06.00 P+C PWO Meal w/ 2:1 ratio of Starchy Carbs to Protein & Fruit
M6 09.00 P+F
XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

And on days you do not do resistance training, your plan should look like this:

M1 06.30 P-only
XX 08:30 → Tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 09.00 P+C
M3 12.00 P+C
M4 03.00 P+C
XX 05.00 → Cardio
M5 06.00 P+F
M6 09.00 P+F
XX 10.30-11.00 → lights out

No problem with taking another program for the ideas it provides you. Go ahead and plug the foods and amounts into www.fitday.com and see how it adds up.

When you get the chance, pick up a postal scale that measures in grams and tenths of an ounce. There are also some jeweler scales on eBay that are very affordable. It will add an element of precision into what you are doing and give you more control.

Questions? (grin)

jthsiao wrote:

I wonder how that works, alternating P+C and P+F for a number of days, almost without regards of one’s workout schedule and such. Doesn’t that go against Berardi’s theory on post-workout nutrition? That was his Ph. D dissertation. Is this program keying off of some kind of rebound reaction when the body is lacking carbs at one time, then lacking fat at another time?

jthsiao, it will work in Lucy’s case because of her extended tennis practice, cardio and resistance training. Resistance training (and even walking for greater than one hour, believe it or not) improves insulin sensitivity. Exercise improves insulin sensitivity.

There are actually two ways the muscles take up glucose – insulin-mediated glucose uptake and NON-insulin-mediated glucose uptake. Exercise (specifically the contraction of muscles) is responsible for the latter. Exercise causes glucose transporters (called GLUT4) to rise to the surface of the cell. Glucose transporters are what are responsible for the cells taking up (absorbing) glucose.

The whole insulin sensitivity thing PWO has application to you and me and anyone else who trains. Following a person’s workout, their muscles are highly insulin sensitive. That’s why PWO nutrition is so important.

This is one of those situations where a person doesn’t fit into that paradigm of carbs in the morning (or following a workout) and fat later in the day. In Lucy’s case she really needs the few carbs she’s getting and she really needs her good fat.

Neither the fat Lucy is taking in OR the carbs OR the timing of either macronutrient is going to have negative effects on body composition. In fact, between you and me, I’m expecting that I’ll have to raise one or both.

In a broad overview kinda way, does it make sense? Lucy is an athlete, pushing her limits. She has higher requirements than either you or I.

Lucy, I forgot to add … that picture of your dog is just too precious!!! (grin)

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
There are actually two ways the muscles take up glucose – insulin-mediated glucose uptake and NON-insulin-mediated glucose uptake. Exercise (specifically the contraction of muscles) is responsible for the latter. Exercise causes glucose transporters (called GLUT4) to rise to the surface of the cell. Glucose transporters are what are responsible for the cells taking up (absorbing) glucose.

The whole insulin sensitivity thing PWO has application to you and me and anyone else who trains. Following a person’s workout, their muscles are highly insulin sensitive. That’s why PWO nutrition is so important.
[/quote]
So, our PWO starchy-carb meal is a combination of both insulin-mediated glucose uptake and coming after our workout with our muscles facilitating NON-insulin-mediated glucose uptake? Therefore, it’s important because we’re doing a combo glucose uptake utilizing both methods. Is this correct?

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
This is one of those situations where a person doesn’t fit into that paradigm of carbs in the morning (or following a workout) and fat later in the day. In Lucy’s case she really needs the few carbs she’s getting and she really needs her good fat.

Neither the fat Lucy is taking in OR the carbs OR the timing of either macronutrient is going to have negative effects on body composition. In fact, between you and me, I’m expecting that I’ll have to raise one or both.

In a broad overview kinda way, does it make sense? Lucy is an athlete, pushing her limits. She has higher requirements than either you or I.[/quote]

I’m kind of confused. Yes, she’ll need carbs. Yes, she’ll need fat. But it doesn’t make sense that one would plan a few days of P+F in a row. The person would miss the anabolic opportunities post-workout. At the same time, it also doesn’t make sense to plan a few days of P+C in a row.

The person would not have all the good effects of anti-inflammation from healthy fats for those days. It’s not so much that the athlete would get any negative effects. But it seems that this method not so “optimal”. Why does this “periodization” of P+C and P+F work?

I suppose she may need more carbs or fat that is allotted in one day. This potentially sounds like the our “Why can’t we have more than the recommendation” situation. However, why go low carb or low fat for a number of days, as opposed to switching off based on intensity of days, a la Carb Cycling? I guess I’m just not getting my mind around on this. :stuck_out_tongue:

So, our PWO starchy-carb meal is a combination of both insulin-mediated glucose uptake and coming after our workout with our muscles facilitating NON-insulin-mediated glucose uptake? Therefore, it’s important because we’re doing a combo glucose uptake utilizing both methods. Is this correct?

Let me see if I can take what you said and rephrase it slightly …

Starchy carbs consumed IMMEDIATELY upon completion of the workout are converted to glucose. Glucose (blood sugar) is capable of being absorbed by the muscle passively (without insulin) immediately following your workout. It’s a training effect/benefit that diminishes quickly. That’s why you hear people talking about the “anabolic window of opportunity” following training.

PWO your muscles will absorb glucose like a dry sponge soaks up water. As times goes on, your muscles become less insulin sensitive. Non-insulin-mediated glucose uptake slows and insulin starts doing its job again. Drinking Surge during your workout and having a whole-food starchy carb meal an hour later is taking full advantage of that anabolic window of opportunity. The whole-food starchy-carb meal that follows Surge is the “2” of a 1-2 punch!

Did I just muddy the water further? (grin)

Sorry I confused you. Looking back over the thread, I thought you were questioning my P+F and P+C recommendations for Lucy. I didn’t realize you were questioning the carb-cycling approach Lucy was reading about (and maybe considering implementing). Carb cycling is effective. I just prefer to mini-cycle within a day’s time instead of dedicating whole days to P+F or P+C.

Lucy, I’m not sure I’d recommend carb cycling with your athletic demands and dual goals. It could be pulled off, yes, but if not done correctly, you’d have some pretty bad tennis practices.

[quote]jthsiao wrote:
The whole insulin sensitivity thing PWO has application to you and me and anyone else who trains. Following a person’s workout, their muscles are highly insulin sensitive. That’s why PWO nutrition is so important.

So, our PWO starchy-carb meal is a combination of both insulin-mediated glucose uptake and coming after our workout with our muscles facilitating NON-insulin-mediated glucose uptake? Therefore, it’s important because we’re doing a combo glucose uptake utilizing both methods. Is this correct?

Tampa-Terry wrote:
This is one of those situations where a person doesn’t fit into that paradigm of carbs in the morning (or following a workout) and fat later in the day. In Lucy’s case she really needs the few carbs she’s getting and she really needs her good fat.

In a broad overview kinda way, does it make sense? Lucy is an athlete, pushing her limits. She has higher requirements than either you or I.

I’m kind of confused. Yes, she’ll need carbs. Yes, she’ll need fat. But it doesn’t make sense that one would plan a few days of P+F in a row. The person would miss the anabolic opportunities post-workout. At the same time, it also doesn’t make sense to plan a few days of P+C in a row.

The person would not have all the good effects of anti-inflammation from healthy fats for those days. It’s not so much that the athlete would get any negative effects. But it seems that this method not so “optimal”. Why does this “periodization” of P+C and P+F work?
[/quote]
Berardi dropped the protein plus carbs or protein plus fat think a long time ago. Also, I don’t like the lack of carbs in the morning, and after workouts. I would like to see 15g of carbs from low fiber fruits in the morning like grapes as fiber can decrease athletic performance. After anything athletic, make your life simple and use 15g of table sugar mixed with 25g of protein powder.

Personaly, I’m dropping 2+ lbs per week, I’m 197lbs and probably 10% bf (maybe 11%). I consume 2800-3000-3200 (depending on how I feel) cal per day. My weight workout is about an hour to an hour and fifteen min. I do cardio every day. My weekday cardio is 30 min comprised of running 2 miles in 16 minutes and uphill walking for the other 14.

On the weekend I run 3 miles in 22 min and walk uphill for 37 min. After weights and cardio I consume 50g protein and 30g of table sugar. For breakfast I eat one cup of yogurt with 42 g of protein powder and one cup of blueberries which is 50g of protein and 42g of carbs. Your breakfast and pwo meal are the most important. For performance and weight loss.

Your breakfast is great…if you you want to be a sumo wrestler. I shit you not, sumo wrestlers, to gain as much weight as possible, are only permitted to drink diet coke.

Did I mention how important breakfast is? I personally like to eat breakfast 2 hours before I workout as instructed by John Bernardi to avoid stomach problems.

The only drugs I take are oral prednisolone for asthma.

Sorry to interupt but…
I love your BT!

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:

Lucy, I’m not sure I’d recommend carb cycling with your athletic demands and dual goals. It could be pulled off, yes, but if not done correctly, you’d have some pretty bad tennis practices.[/quote]

Thanks it was only something I was interested in. Cycling within a day is probably going to be more effective.

[quote]coloradosteve wrote:

Personaly, I’m dropping 2+ lbs per week, I’m 197lbs and probably 10% bf (maybe 11%). I consume 2800-3000-3200 (depending on how I feel) cal per day. My weight workout is about an hour to an hour and fifteen min. I do cardio every day. My weekday cardio is 30 min comprised of running 2 miles in 16 minutes and uphill walking for the other 14.

On the weekend I run 3 miles in 22 min and walk uphill for 37 min.
After weights and cardio I consume 50g protein and 30g of table sugar.

[/quote]

You must be fit, man to be able to run 3 miles in 22 min…not so bad :))

Are you sure about all the sugar you’re consuming? Why not honey?

Personally I can’t stand sugar at all. I consider it “a white poison”. Anyway do as you please.

[quote]Mod Lisa Marie wrote:
Sorry to interupt but…
I love your BT! [/quote]

No, your bull terrier is cute!Looks like a prima donna. Mine’s ugly as hell. He thinks he’s human, tries to sit on chairs …