T Nation

P, C, & Fat % Ratio for Fat Loss?

Hi everybody,

I’m 27y, 168cm tall, 75kg = overweight. No idea what my BF % is, don’t care either.

My question is: How much protein, carb,fat should I be eating in order to lose fat effectively?

I’m a very active female tennis player with a good muscular base.

I’d be grateful for any feedback from you guys.

Thanks a lot.

40/30/30(protein/carbs/fats) should be a good place to start. Make adjustments accordingly.

How do I work out what my caloric need is?

I know it must have been said about million times on this forum and I still don’t know!!!
Shame on me.

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
How do I work out what my caloric need is?

I know it must have been said about million times on this forum and I still don’t know!!!
Shame on me.[/quote]

a real easy way to calculate it, and it isnt the most accurate, is to multiply your bodyweight by 12 for dieting, 16 for maintenence.

If 12 is dropping weight too fast, add 100 cals or so per day. If its only droping .5 pounds a week, drop another 100 cals or so.

Id take a look at T-Dawg 2.0 more carb timing etc then a set 40/30/30 or what ever. it give/allows carbs when needed etc will also help you figure out total intake estimates etc…

Solid diet , easy to live by effective and very easily transitioned to maintaining and gaining

T Dawg 2
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=473067

Phill

[quote]Phill wrote:
Id take a look at T-Dawg 2.0 more carb timing etc then a set 40/30/30 or what ever. it give/allows carbs when needed etc will also help you figure out total intake estimates etc…

Solid diet , easy to live by effective and very easily transitioned to maintaining and gaining

T Dawg 2
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=473067

Phill[/quote]

Thanks Phill, great link!

So if I’m working it out well I should be eating daily 2508 cal at my current weight:

Protein 250g
Carbs 100/70g
Fat 151g

Where am I going to get 250g of protein eating only fish,eggs,cheese and beans without going to high on carbs and/or fat???

God help me!

Lucy, when I’m helping people with their diets, the first thing I do is make sure they’re getting enough protein and GOOD fat. Then I make sure to optimize PWO (Post Workout) nutrition. In your case we need to make sure your performance doesn’t suffer.

The absolute last thing I look at is how many calories a person is taking in. And truthfully, no matter what number you would pick, the number would have to be adjusted/tweaked based on your results.

I’d actually change the numbers around a bit.

I converted kg to pounds. You’re 165 pounds. That’s the number I’ll be using for purposes of calculations.

Daily Protein Requirements = 165g
Daily Fat Requirements = 66g

The carb part of things we’d have to play with. I’d recommend that you eat predominantly fibrous green veggies. Have 3 servings of fruit a day and 1 serving of beans. As far as fibrous green veggies go, you’re allowed all you want. You can’t overeat them. On days you are active you’ll eat more. On days you are not active you’ll eat less. It’s one of those things that takes care of itself.

If you’d like some more help with putting together your diet, check out … http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1509230

And if you have any other questions, don’t hesitate to ask. (grin)

Looks good Tampa-Terry. Thank you very much. I look through it and come back with more questions.

The serving of beans (1 cup) is before cooking or after?

I’m not a meat eater ( I eat fish, seafood, eggs, cheese ) is it going to be a problem?

Thanks again!

[quote]JuicyLucy wrote:
Looks good Tampa-Terry. Thank you very much. I look through it and come back with more questions.

The serving of beans (1 cup) is before cooking or after?

I’m not a meat eater ( I eat fish, seafood, eggs, cheese ) is it going to be a problem?

Thanks again! [/quote]

Im not TT, but I don’t think where you get the protein from matters. If you don’t prefer meat just eat more eggs, seafood, etc. to hit your daily totals. Make sure you get all your protein though, that will help you maintain (and not lose) your lean muscle mass.

That T-dawg diet is a good diet and a good place to start.

And listen to TT, she really knows her stuff. Be grateful she is helping you.

Best of luck with dieting.

Yesterday was my first day dieting. Please take a look at what I have consumed and let me know what I could improve.

10.30 40g whey protein,
1 plain low fat yogurt,
1/4 cup of oats,
2 tb pollen, water

11.00 tennis

14.00 3 eggs,
1 can of tuna,
1/4 cup of cheese brie,
1 cup fresh spinach, few radishes, carrot

16.00 banana, apple, tangerine

18.00 gym

20.00 3 oz. of canned octopus,
1/2 head of cooked cabbage,
1/2 cup of gumbo shrimps

Protein 153g
Fat 68g
Carb 218g

Total: 2055 cal

I know my choice of food is a wee crazy and complicated. I’ll work on it and make it more simple.

Thank you in advance

Lucy, greekdawg is right that it doesn’t matter where your protein comes from … just so long as you avoid soy-based protein!

As far as cheese goes, though, treat it as a garnish, not as a protein source. It’s calorically dense. What I mean by that is that you have to “pay” a high number of calories for the grams of protein you get. Example … if you need to eat 25g of protein to meet your per-meal protein requirements and ate that in the form of tilapia (a wonderful fish!), you’d have to eat 3.5 ounces, and you’d pay 120 calories. With cheddar cheese you’d also have to eat 3.5 ounces, but you’d pay 377 calories!!!

The bottom line is that cheese and peanut butter should not be treated as protein sources even though they do have protein in 'em. Treat them as a garnish only!!!

As far as beans go, the serving size is 1/2 cup, and that’s COOKED!!! Good question, there!!!

And no, I don’t think what you’re eating is crazy or complicated. All that matters is that the structure of your plan and the numbers help you achieve your goals and allow you to maintain performance.

Let me ask a few questions …

What time do you get up, and what time do you go to bed? Let’s get the times of your meals worked out first.

How long is tennis practice and how many days a week?

Tell me a little bit more about what you do in the gym – cardio and resistance training. How long are you in the gym and how many days a week?

You did pretty darn good on the grams of P and F, but we need to get your fat divided up into thirds (saturated, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated). There are body composition benefits and health and energy benefits to doing so.

For fat, let me give you some numbers …

You know your daily fat requirements are 66g. Try to get as close to that number as you possibly can. The following are SUB-requirements, meaning that the following should be part of that 66g number:

1.5 tablespoons of olive oil (monounsaturated fat)
1 tablespoon of flaxseed oil (polyunsaturated fat)
10g of fish oil

The above need to be consumed on a daily basis without going over that 66g number. A tablespoon of oil is 14g. 1.5 tablespoons of oil is 21g. Since you’re an athlete with performance goals, I’d also like to see you consuming a high-quality fish oil. You can have it in the form of capsules or liquid. Liquid is cheaper. I like to combine mine with my tuna. I never notice the taste. (grin)

What you’re going to find is that you’ll have to back off of some of the stuff you’re eating that has a higher fat to protein ratio; i.e., you’re going to have to pick leaner protein sources.

One opportunity I see is that your meal at 16:00 doesn’t have a protein source. You need protein every meal!!!

Go ahead and print up my post on the link I gave you. We’ll be using that to create your plan. Once you’ve done that, see if you can tell me what your per-meal protein requirements are.

If you need help, Lucy, let me know. And if you post and I miss it, send me a PM.

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:

Let me ask a few questions …

What time do you get up, and what time do you go to bed? Let’s get the times of your meals worked out first.

How long is tennis practice and how many days a week?

What you do in the gym – cardio and resistance training. How long are you in the gym and how many days a week?

[/quote]

Firstly, let me express my gratitude. This is too much … You have to tell me how much I owe.

Back to your questions. I have realized that eating cheese wasn’t the best choice. Thanks for pointing that out.

I get up at 7.00 (on practice days) and go to bed at 22.00 roughly.

So we leave to play tennis at 7.30 and come back around 13.30. So it works out about 5,5 hours practicing on the court. It’s not all running around, we do technique and work on the position on the court or something like that. The intensity varies.
We play 5 times per week. I’m not counting matches though.

I go to the gym 2 times per week about an hour of lifting weights. I do cardio 5-6 times per week it is either running for 45 min. in the country side or biking for 60 min. in the gym.

I hope I have answered all your questions.
I have printed the link you gave me and put it on my wall. he he he

I’ve also added one more protein shake in the afternoon with the fruit.

I put 1,5 tbsp of flax seed into my protein shakes is it enough?
I will buy fish oil soon.

Thanks a lot.

Cheers

Little up date to my new diet:

11.30 30g whey protein,
1 low fat yogurt,
pollen, 1,5 tbsp of flax seeds,
1 banana, water

14.00 5 eggs,
1,5 tbsp of olive oil,
2 cups of green beens,
few shrimps

13.00 tennis match - I had 1 banana during

17.30 3/4 cup of oats
10g of whey protein,
flax seeds, pollen,
yogurt

18.30 banana

19.30 50 min. run

21.30 2 pieces of cod fish boiled, lettuce,
onion,
carrot,
1,5 tbsp. of olive oil

22.30 40g whey protein,
yogurt,
pollen, 1,5 tbsp. of flex seeds,
water

Protein 159g
Carbs 161g
Fat 97g

Total 2114 cal

I’m having real difficulty in getting all 165g of protein without exceeding 66g of fat.
Any ideas? What other lean protein I could be eating( don’t eat meat though ;-)? If I eat more eggs= more fat, want to cook more fish= more olive oil…etc.

I still have to work on the timing of my meals. By the way someone who practices twice a day gets 2 PWMs?

I love it I’ve never known so much about dieting as I do now!

Thank you in advance.

Firstly, let me express my gratitude. This is too much … You have to tell me how much I owe.

Lucy, I’m only giving back what’s been given to me. Everything I know about manipulating caloric intake and macronutrients (fat, carbs, protein), I’ve learned here on the site. So if you want to pay me back, support the site. Be a cheerleader. Take what you learn and help others.

Thanks for all the information! Just what I needed. Let’s start building your plan. The first thing I want to do is get you set up for 5 or 6 snack-sized meals. You won’t be eating more, just spreading out what you DO eat a little better.

Your tennis practice is seriously hardcore!!! (grin) What I want to do is make sure we keep energy levels up, performance up and LBM (Lean Body Mass) up and FM (Fat Mass) down!!! We want you to be a lean, mean tennis machine!!! (grin)

If your snack-sized meals were prepared in advance and you could take 'em with you, would the following times work? You don’t have to hit them exactly. Close is good enough. Would either of these two scenarios work?

07:00
10:00
01:00
04:00
07:00
10:00

or

07:00
10:30
02:00
05:30
09:30

I’d like to see you eating some protein every 3 to 4 hours. Body composition (the ratio of lean to fat) will improve and so will energy and performance.

The goal of the first week or two is to determine what your maintenance calories are and to get the structure of your plan put together in a way that it works for you time-wise and energy-wise. From there we’ll start manipulating some of the variables so that you’re losing body fat.

There’s a type of cardio I’d like to see you doing that will have huge body composition benefits as well as performance benefits. I want you to research HIIT (High Intensity Interval Training). Don’t let the fact that it only lasts 20 minutes fool you. You warm up for 6 minutes and start your 30-second all-out sprint on minutes 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 and 18. Drop back to an easy recovery pace for 90 seconds. You’re done. If you want to do more, you didn’t hit it hard enough on your sprints.

HIIT will rev up your metabolism (142% more than steady state cardio in the hour following and for 48 hours after that to a lesser degree), increase the number of mitochondria in the cell, which is where energy (ATP) is made. It will improve/increase peripheral circulation. It’s a real fat stripper that will also improve performance. Do it twice a week when you’re pressed for time. It should be done IN PLACE OF another cardio session.

Based on what you’re telling me, you do not need PWO nutrition (meaning extra starchy carbs) following cardio. When cardio is greater than 1 hour in duration, I’ll usually recommend PWO nutrition.

Per meal protein requirements if you eat 6 meals is 27.5g. Per meal protein requirements if you eat 5 meals is 33g.

What country do you live in, Lucy? Can you get Biotest products? If you can, get Flameout and Surge. The reason I’m asking is I either want you taking 1.5 tablespoons of of fish oil or 7 or 8 Flameout capsules. There are huge athletic and performance benefits and body composition benefits, too!!! If you don’t believe me or aren’t quite committed to this recommendation, please ask me to explain.

Don’t you love how your two goals are so darn complementary and how you don’t have to choose between performance and dropping your body fat percentage? (grin)

In addition to the fish oil, I want you taking in 1.5 tablespoons of olive oil every day. That’s an easy one. You can put it over a salad. 1 tablespoon = 14g of fat; 1.5 tablespoons = 21g of fat.

If you use flax seed, make sure you grind it, otherwise it will pass through you without your being able to extract the Omega 3 fatty acids.

As far as using flax seed instead of flaxseed oil towards meeting our good fat requirements, 3.5 tablespoons of flax seed (before you grind it) is roughly equal to 1 tablespoon of the oil. 5 tablespoons would give you 20g of your good fat.

Let me know how the times work for you, and we’ll put the rest of your plan together.

Questions? (grin)

PS: Thanks for the heads-up PM, too!

Oops! Forgot to answer your questions …

I’m having real difficulty in getting all 165g of protein without exceeding 66g of fat. Any ideas? What other lean protein I could be eating( don’t eat meat though ;-)? If I eat more eggs = more fat, want to cook more fish= more olive oil…etc.

Since a large chunk of the fat you’re allowed is taken up by the olive oil and flaxseed/fish oil requirements, you’re going to have to pick leaner protein sources in general. Some good candidates are:

Whey protein or Metabolic Drive
Egg WHITES with maybe one whole egg
Fish
Canned tuna
Shrimp

You don’t have to cook with olive oil. (grin) I have a non-stick pan that I cook my eggs in. If it’s hot enough when I throw my eggs in and I let them set and use a good spatula (plastic, not metal), I don’t need any fat to cook my eggs. I’ll cook my tilapia (a white fish) on my George Foreman grill … once again, without any added fat.

I don’t add cheese or nuts or avocado to my diet until I know that I’ve got all my protein in and all my good fat in. THEN I’ll add extras if I want 'em.

When you say you don’t eat meat, does that mean you don’t eat beef and lamb? Do you eat chicken?

By the way someone who practices twice a day gets 2 PWMs?

If we’re able to get the times of your meals squared away, I think we can get away with not having a PWO meal following tennis practice. But keep an eye on your performance. If you start feeling weak or depleted or just generally lacking “Oomph,” we’ll need to add some more carbs in, and that would be a logical place (following tennis practice). What I want you to do is have PWO nutrition following resistance training (not cardio).

You’re doing great, Lucy!!! Good questions!!!

I’ve been thinking about the meal times and came out with this:

07.15 45 min. run or HIIT

M1 08.00 tennis from 8.30 until 01.30
M2 11.00
M3 02.00
M4 05.00 gym 2xper week from 3 to 4
M5 08.00
M6 10.00

10.30-11.00 lights out

Thanks for the advise. Now I need to get the non-sticking pan.

My protein intake is going to stay the same ( 165g ) between eggs, w.protein, fish, sea food. And no, I don’t eat chicken.

My fats (66g) are going to be 1 Tbsp of fish oil (14g),1,5 Tbsp of olive oil (21g) and 5 Tbsp of flax seeds (20g) which I’ll be adding to my shakes…

^^^
It does not look like I’ll be able to eat any eggs without going over the limit of 66g of fat???..hmmm

Carbs in form of veggies, oats, etc.

By the way I live in Spain and I don’t know if i can get Surge and Flameout here . I’ll have a look around.

That should be it let’s start rolling!!!

Well, I’ve been reading some more:)))) and I try to do the planning myself:

08.00 P + F
30g whey protein + yogurt + 3.5 Tbsp of flax seeds (I like bananas in my shake as well but am not sure about it?!?)

11.00 P+C PW0
10g of w.protein, yogurt, 3.5 Tbsp of flax oil, 1/2 banana, 0.75 cup of oats, water

02.00 P+C
1 egg+ 3 egg whites, veggies

05.00 P+C
30g of w. protein, apple

08.00 P+F
1/2 beans, fish, salad/veggies, 1.5 Tbsp of olive oil

10.00 P+F
30g of w.protein + 10g of fish oil??? I’m slowly running out of ideas :))) HELP…

O.K. This is how far I can get today.

JuicyLucy,
If you want a TON of ideas I’d suggest getting Berardi’s Precision Nutrition. Lots and lots of recipes and great ideas for eating right. I think it’s about the best investment you can get diet wise.

[quote]superdad4 wrote:
JuicyLucy,
If you want a TON of ideas I’d suggest getting Berardi’s Precision Nutrition. Lots and lots of recipes and great ideas for eating right. I think it’s about the best investment you can get diet wise.[/quote]

Thanks Superdad4, I actually have a copy of Berardi’s “The Grappler’s Guide To Sport Nutrition” and “Gourmet Nutrition”.

They are both brilliant books. Full of recipes …

I just need to work on the numbers.