[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Do you need anecdotal stats telling you that running across a freeway is really fucking stupid? Do we need beard scratching cubicle hamsters telling you that touching a scalding hot pan will burn the shit out of you? Really ?[/quote]
I don’t think these deserve to be mentioned in a discussion about Cuba. It weakens your argument to the position of ‘it is because it is’, and that isn’t providing any facts or base for your argument.
Being Canadian, I’m somewhat of a third party here, I have no direct ties to either of these countries. Ryan has been providing sources, facts and stats for his position while you have not. So again, don’t just say you’re right b/c you’re ‘obviously right’, show me you’re right, then I’ll some base to go off of to believe what you’re saying is fact. I haven’t seen sicko, so I can’t comment on the content of it.
Or possibly better b/c they’ve been cut off from just about the entire world.
Question: Why is there sanctions against Cuba? b/c of communism? something else?
I’m not familiar with US history, so if someone would let me know why and how as far as their understanding of the situation is that would be great.[/quote]
No, they have been shut off from the US.
Lots of nations have no real trade with the US and are doing better than Cuba.
Sorry if I’ve been dense or something, but are you claiming that medical care in Cuba is better than that in the US? If so, what “statistics” are you basing that conclusion on.
I’m imagining that Cuba might not be so different from Japan, where the system looks pretty good “on paper” but sucks in reality. [/quote]
Why do you think it sucks? Is it from personal experience? I only ask as my experiences of the Japanese healthcare system have been nothing but positive. So far I have had three operations and found the level of care to be excellent.[/quote]
Give me a bit of time to decide if I want to sully myself by further participating in any discussion that includes T-Nation’s own Super Boy, who’s most likely has never left his mom’s basement.
In fact, how about if I just respond to you via PM? Let me know if you’re interested. [/quote]
I hope I’m misinterpreting your post, but it comes off like you’re mad that spiderman received ‘positive’ and ‘excellent’ healthcare in Japan.
Sorry if I’ve been dense or something, but are you claiming that medical care in Cuba is better than that in the US? If so, what “statistics” are you basing that conclusion on.
I’m imagining that Cuba might not be so different from Japan, where the system looks pretty good “on paper” but sucks in reality. [/quote]
Why do you think it sucks? Is it from personal experience? I only ask as my experiences of the Japanese healthcare system have been nothing but positive. So far I have had three operations and found the level of care to be excellent.[/quote]
Give me a bit of time to decide if I want to sully myself by further participating in any discussion that includes T-Nation’s own Super Boy, who’s most likely has never left his mom’s basement.
In fact, how about if I just respond to you via PM? Let me know if you’re interested. [/quote]
I hope I’m misinterpreting your post, but it comes off like you’re mad that spiderman received ‘positive’ and ‘excellent’ healthcare in Japan.[/quote]
Huh? Where in the world did you get THAT?
My antipathy is for “Ryan” only.[/quote]
Oh ok, it was b/c you quoted spiderman with what you wrote, and his name being ‘spiderman’, I associated that with your ‘Super Boy’ comment.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Do you need anecdotal stats telling you that running across a freeway is really fucking stupid? Do we need beard scratching cubicle hamsters telling you that touching a scalding hot pan will burn the shit out of you? Really ?[/quote]
I don’t think these deserve to be mentioned in a discussion about Cuba. It weakens your argument to the position of ‘it is because it is’, and that isn’t providing any facts or base for your argument.
Being Canadian, I’m somewhat of a third party here, I have no direct ties to either of these countries. Ryan has been providing sources, facts and stats for his position while you have not. So again, don’t just say you’re right b/c you’re ‘obviously right’, show me you’re right, then I’ll some base to go off of to believe what you’re saying is fact. I haven’t seen sicko, so I can’t comment on the content of it.
Or possibly better b/c they’ve been cut off from just about the entire world.
Question: Why is there sanctions against Cuba? b/c of communism? something else?
I’m not familiar with US history, so if someone would let me know why and how as far as their understanding of the situation is that would be great.[/quote]
So you want me or Ryan to explain all of the factors that influence Cuba’s health care system, both pro and con, yet you have no clue at all about Cuba ? Can you find it on a map?
I am not going to type all this shit, so how about your lazy ass looks at this to give you an idea on the subject. Ryan and/or myself would be typing encyclopedias about this, do us a favor and take a read ok…
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Do you need anecdotal stats telling you that running across a freeway is really fucking stupid? Do we need beard scratching cubicle hamsters telling you that touching a scalding hot pan will burn the shit out of you? Really ?[/quote]
I don’t think these deserve to be mentioned in a discussion about Cuba. It weakens your argument to the position of ‘it is because it is’, and that isn’t providing any facts or base for your argument.
Being Canadian, I’m somewhat of a third party here, I have no direct ties to either of these countries. Ryan has been providing sources, facts and stats for his position while you have not. So again, don’t just say you’re right b/c you’re ‘obviously right’, show me you’re right, then I’ll some base to go off of to believe what you’re saying is fact. I haven’t seen sicko, so I can’t comment on the content of it.
Or possibly better b/c they’ve been cut off from just about the entire world.
Question: Why is there sanctions against Cuba? b/c of communism? something else?
I’m not familiar with US history, so if someone would let me know why and how as far as their understanding of the situation is that would be great.[/quote]
So you want me or Ryan to explain all of the factors that influence Cuba’s health care system, both pro and con, yet you have no clue at all about Cuba ? Can you find it on a map?
I am not going to type all this shit, so how about your lazy ass looks at this to give you an idea on the subject. Ryan and/or myself would be typing encyclopedias about this, do us a favor and take a read ok…
Malnutrition created epidemics, but it had positive effects too. Manuel Franco describes the Special Period as “the first, and probably the only, natural experiment, born of unfortunate circumstances, where large effects on diabetes, cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality have been related to sustained population-wide weight loss as a result of increased physical activity and reduced caloric intake”.[19]
According to Katharine Hirschfeld, criticizing the government is a crime in Cuba, and penalties are severe.[80] She noted that “Formally eliciting critical narratives about health care would be viewed as a criminal act both for me as a researcher, and for people who spoke openly with me”.[80] According to Hirschfeld the Cuban Ministry of Health (MINSAP) sets statistical targets that are viewed as production quotas.
The most guarded is infant mortality rate. The doctor is pressured to abort the pregnancy whenever screening shows that quotas are in danger.[80] Once doctor decides to guard his quotas, patients have no right to refuse abortion
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
So you want me or Ryan to explain all of the factors that influence Cuba’s health care system, both pro and con, yet you have no clue at all about Cuba ? Can you find it on a map?
I am not going to type all this shit, so how about your lazy ass looks at this to give you an idea on the subject. Ryan and/or myself would be typing encyclopedias about this, do us a favor and take a read ok…
No need to be rude Max. I was asking why there were sanctions, like a summary, or gist of it.
Sometimes I get the vibe from Americans that you forget that the whole world doesn’t learn American history, which is why I asked you, to get an answer from a ‘source’, as I would call you.
Thanks for link. I’ll dig deeper.
Maybe it’s just me, but I think that if both parties understand where the other one gets their base of information and understanding from, that it will help further a debate towards a resolution or at least understanding of eachother.
We are apparently a bit different. Should I seek to learn about something, I would willingly look into it on my own, before I would ask someone to explain it’s entirety to me. I am sorry if my tone seems rude, but I am not the kind of person to impose on someone.
Perhaps people looked into preventative medicine, so they wouldn’t HAVE to seek health care ? This is something I saw while incarcerated. Guys took much better care of themselves because they knew the health care in prison pretty much was a death sentence. Guys avoided shit food, exercised more, along with the idea of being physically fit as a better method of deterrence towards violence. In a way, I could argue that Cuba’s system fiscally, could be a form of prison. No matter how hard you work, you will never get ahead in life.
I never asked for you to explain the entire history for me. I asked for a summary, not an essay.
I respect your right to refuse, although I am interested to hear an Americans understanding of the cause of the situation, and look for consistencies or a general consensus.
I know what you mean about prison healthcare. I almost died twice from appendicitis. Took them 6 hours to get me to a hospital that was a 1/2 hour away. Then I got an infection b/c it ruptured. But because I didn’t have a fever the nurse said I was ok(I only would have gotten a fever when the infection burst causing sepsis then possible death). Lost close to 30 pounds that I didn’t need to lose.
Wrong, you’re a liar. If that was what you wanted, you should be happy, because that’s what you got. But that wasn’t what you wanted. You wanted to hear something that confirmed the opinion you already hold. You don’t have any interest in different ideas–in fact, you hate them, as you demonstrate with almost every post on this board.
Apparently, nothing anyone in this thread has said to you has gotten through: you are making an argument, just as Moore is. The difference is, Moore actually backs up his argument with evidence, but you can’t back yours up. You simply accuse him of manipulating the facts, without the slightest bit of proof, which is shameful.
While I sympathize with your story it’s only more argument in favor of a single-payer health system.
[quote]MaximusB wrote:What they have to work with is not enough. People here are not dying from fevers, sprained ankles, the shits, or stuffy noses.
The right is greedy? How about “the sick” are greedy? I believe that I should and shall fight for the best care that I or my loved ones can receive, anywhere in the world. Does that make me greedy? Fuck yes then I am greedy! But you won’t be insulting a dead man, trust and believe that. Would I risk life and limb floating on a raft to get to a place where my chances of surviving and thriving are better? Hell yes.[/quote]
You are missing the entire point. The debate is not over the care–everyone knows that actual medical care in the United States is excellent, but everyone also knows that it’s one of the most inefficient and wasteful systems in the world. It is the way this care is provided that is the issue.
“These people” at this point could be figments of your imagination. Let me spell it out for you clearly:
unless you give me a link to some kind of document backing up what you say, as far as I’m concerned, the “facts” you refer to are coming straight out of your ass.
These people are the same as all the other emigrants from Caribbean countries. But for some reason, they’re only “fleeing” when they’re coming from Cuba. Apparently, you don’t care that other Caribbean countries have higher emigration rates than Cuba–they’re all fine, but because it’s Cuba, a socialist country, they must be fleeing oppression! Do you honestly not see how stupid and dishonest this is?
Furthermore, these people are no different than the thousands of people who leave the US for Canada and Mexico for healthcare every year. You have no point.
You’ve been corrected now, both by me and by at least two conservatives. Let’s see how you react.
[quote]orion wrote:So the US has the power to sue the EU, Russia, India, China or Japan?
We tremble in our boots.
Even Canada told them where they could stick it.
[/quote]
Well, most countries do take the “suggestions” the US gives them. Don’t flatter yourself into thinking that you’re a bunch of “independents” or something.
And besides, the US certainly can prevent our businesses from doing any business with yours, if that’s what it takes. Which is likely to be far more effective.
So again, yes, Cuba is pretty much cut off from the world. Look before you leap next time.
“ST. PAUL, Minn. â?? On the weekend before the Republican National Convention, law enforcement agencies detained dozens of people and issued a series of search warrants aimed at groups believed to be organizing demonstrations while delegates and Republican officials are in town.”
“A US Senate committee has approved a wide-ranging cybersecurity bill that some critics have suggested would give the US president the authority to shut down parts of the Internet during a cyberattack.”
Wrong, you’re a liar. If that was what you wanted, you should be happy, because that’s what you got. But that wasn’t what you wanted. You wanted to hear something that confirmed the opinion you already hold. You don’t have any interest in different ideas–in fact, you hate them, as you demonstrate with almost every post on this board.
How am I a liar? You can deal with my opinion the same way I deal with yours… as e-toilet paper. Would I call you a liar? Ryan, don’t cry because you haven’t changed my mind about this. I have never heard of a positive story from any of my Cuban friends, and I have ALOT of them. And these are people who spend decades in Cuba. Yes, I find them more credible than some journal with fudged numbers.
Apparently, nothing anyone in this thread has said to you has gotten through: you are making an argument, just as Moore is. The difference is, Moore actually backs up his argument with evidence, but you can’t back yours up. You simply accuse him of manipulating the facts, without the slightest bit of proof, which is shameful.
If you call what he presented as proof, then he has much more to be ashamed of than I ever will.
While I sympathize with your story it’s only more argument in favor of a single-payer health system.
[/quote]
From the lower portion of the Wikipedia link I posted…
A recent ABC-TV 20/20 report on Healthcare, based on footage taken from within the island, criticized Michael Moore’s portrayals of the Cuban Healthcare system in the movie Sicko. In that film, Moore took a number of Americans to a hospital in Havana where they bought affordable drugs, and were given treatments for free that they could not afford in America. The report highlights the dilapidated conditions of some hospitals that are accessible to regular Cubans by pointing to the bleak conditions of hospital rooms and the filthy conditions of the facilities. The report also addressed the quality of care available to Cubans by arguing that patient neglect was a common phenomenon. Finally, in discussing the infant mortality rate, the report highlights the government’s alleged efforts to promote abortions of potentially infirm fetuses and other alleged government efforts to manipulate the rate.
Ryan, the best health care system is the one you never have to use. Cubans generally are healthier than Americans, so in this respect they win the argument. But should you become ill, where do you want to be?
Ryan, I came from Socialism, and I have seen some of the “perks” that it can offer to it’s people. The problem is, it would not work here because our level of political corruption would prevent it from happening. We do not have a government here that is trustworthy, which is why I am against raising taxes. Why give such a criminal entity more money to harm us with? If we had a government that behaved the way it should, we probably could rely on it more for responsible social services, but the truth of the matter is that we don’t. Notice I said responsible, meaning that tax payers are not gouged, and those accessing those social programs are not taking advantage of it. We have not had a government body that was truly in the interest of the people in many years, thanks to lobbyist groups, special interests, and unions.