[quote]digitalairair wrote:
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters[/quote]
Yeah… because explosive lifting has no athletic carry-over at all, right?
They are BOTH extremely good workouts and BOTH (and their variations) should be included in any serious athlete, lifter, B.B, fitness enthusiast, etc!!!
To this day I don’t know why people argue for what workout is better. Reminds me of the never ending TBT vr. Split arguments…
Anywho… back to my point. Do Squats and Deadlifts (and their variations). Also, Olympic Lifts (and variants like power snatch, clean & push-press, etc)are EXTREMELY beneficial, and I would recommend them too.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
digitalairair wrote:
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters
Yeah… because explosive lifting has no athletic carry-over at all, right?[/quote]
you dont really need olympic lifts to get more explosive, if the individual already mastered the lifts then great.
BIg question:
can u do half squat and then do bulgarian split squat and get the same benefits??
half squats to overload and work the muscles hard.
BSS- to hit the p-chain
???
[quote]digitalairair wrote:
nike1800 wrote:
What about the Olympic lifts? Is it better to establish a strength base first (2x bodyweight squat/deadlift) or get right into them?
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters[/quote]
In your videos I see you doing clean and jerks and dumbbells snatches. You do these lifts just for fun, or do you actually have them as a part of your routine? I agree to some extent with leaving olympic lifts for olympic lifters, but the majority of football players and sprinters are doing some kind of power clean, hang clean or snatch, at least from what I read.
[quote]T.J. wrote:
digitalairair wrote:
nike1800 wrote:
What about the Olympic lifts? Is it better to establish a strength base first (2x bodyweight squat/deadlift) or get right into them?
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters
In your videos I see you doing clean and jerks and dumbbells snatches. You do these lifts just for fun, or do you actually have them as a part of your routine? I agree to some extent with leaving olympic lifts for olympic lifters, but the majority of football players and sprinters are doing some kind of power clean, hang clean or snatch, at least from what I read.
[/quote]
I do them because i’ve learned the lifs with a coach, if i hadnt i dont think i would be messing with them.
I still don’t do them that much because my technique is still far from perfect. Eric never perscribe any olympic lift variations in my programs and i’ve been making some fine gains.
USually I do olympic lifts when I’m moving towards to spring side of the equation while my cycle focuses on expressing my speed-strength after 2-3 months of high volumn resistance training.
The olympic lifts are great for “maintaining” strength during this period of my training when I’m only doing weights once or twice a week because they dont cause too much muscle damage and they keep every muscle in my body and my nervous system “in check”
One thing I’ve always wondered about is whether the ultimate combo for someone looking to improve vert and sprint speed would be Romanian deadlifts paired with Bulgarian split squats. The RDL for a direct hit on the posterior chain and the split squat for some additional glute stimulation, quad stimulation, and the benefits of single-leg work. What do you folks think?
[quote]eic wrote:
One thing I’ve always wondered about is whether the ultimate combo for someone looking to improve vert and sprint speed would be Romanian deadlifts paired with Bulgarian split squats. The RDL for a direct hit on the posterior chain and the split squat for some additional glute stimulation, quad stimulation, and the benefits of single-leg work. What do you folks think? [/quote]
That’s one way to do it, but there is no “ultimate combo”.
What I’m doing right now that I’m really liking is one day of heavy squats and good mornings and one day of higher rep BSS and glute-hams.
[quote]digitalairair wrote:
nike1800 wrote:
What about the Olympic lifts? Is it better to establish a strength base first (2x bodyweight squat/deadlift) or get right into them?
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters[/quote]
That (IMO) is the equivilant of telling an athlete to leave the box squat to the powerlifters.
[quote]digitalairair wrote:
T.J. wrote:
digitalairair wrote:
nike1800 wrote:
What about the Olympic lifts? Is it better to establish a strength base first (2x bodyweight squat/deadlift) or get right into them?
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters
In your videos I see you doing clean and jerks and dumbbells snatches. You do these lifts just for fun, or do you actually have them as a part of your routine? I agree to some extent with leaving olympic lifts for olympic lifters, but the majority of football players and sprinters are doing some kind of power clean, hang clean or snatch, at least from what I read.
I do them because i’ve learned the lifs with a coach, if i hadnt i dont think i would be messing with them.
I still don’t do them that much because my technique is still far from perfect. Eric never perscribe any olympic lift variations in my programs and i’ve been making some fine gains.
USually I do olympic lifts when I’m moving towards to spring side of the equation while my cycle focuses on expressing my speed-strength after 2-3 months of high volumn resistance training.
The olympic lifts are great for “maintaining” strength during this period of my training when I’m only doing weights once or twice a week because they dont cause too much muscle damage and they keep every muscle in my body and my nervous system “in check”
[/quote]
It is difficult to argue with Eric Cressey, but isn’t one of the reasons why he prescribes speed deadlifts over O-Lifts is because (excluding the obvious fact that his methods are influenced by powerlifting methods) a power clean/snatch is slow during the first phase pull and only becomes explosive during the 2nd pull.
But these concerns usually solved by power cleans/snatch from block, pins or hangs.
[quote]Omega_Red wrote:
digitalairair wrote:
nike1800 wrote:
What about the Olympic lifts? Is it better to establish a strength base first (2x bodyweight squat/deadlift) or get right into them?
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters
That (IMO) is the equivilant of telling an athlete to leave the box squat to the powerlifters.
[/quote]
sort of
but remember box squats are much easier to learn and that sometimes box squats were taught to the athletes in preparation for free squats.
Besides most athletes need basic strength…a large part of what makes the clean go up is your your limit strength.
Notihng builds basic strength better than heavy squats/deads. Most athletes lack limit strength. I dont think we can get them very strong by having them perform lifts that they dont even know how to master
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Roy wrote:
Depends on the sport.
A scrawney MMA bruce lee wannabe kinda guy who likes to wrestle with naked men would probably benafit more from the deadlift. And being bent over with a shaft in his hands would give him some added benafit.
While an explosive football player, or sprinter, would probably want to stick to the squat.
One of your funnier wiseass comments.[/quote]
Why thank you.
[quote]digitalairair wrote:
Omega_Red wrote:
digitalairair wrote:
nike1800 wrote:
What about the Olympic lifts? Is it better to establish a strength base first (2x bodyweight squat/deadlift) or get right into them?
leave the olympic lifts to olympic lifters
That (IMO) is the equivilant of telling an athlete to leave the box squat to the powerlifters.
sort of
but remember box squats are much easier to learn and that sometimes box squats were taught to the athletes in preparation for free squats.
Besides most athletes need basic strength…a large part of what makes the clean go up is your your limit strength.
Notihng builds basic strength better than heavy squats/deads. Most athletes lack limit strength. I dont think we can get them very strong by having them perform lifts that they dont even know how to master[/quote]
I’m aware that many athletes lack overal limit strength, I just disagreed on your statment that O-lifts should be left to o-lifters.
And IMO, I do not believe that the o-lifts (the clean and snatch variations, not ALL the movements) are that hard to learn.
Especially when power pulls can also be used.
Deadlift: The weight is in front of you. Deadlifts aid in both olympic lifts, which give every athlete better speed and jumping ability.
If I had a team to coach I would try to teach proper form dead lifts before squats. Not that squats aren’t awesome but they’re easier to cheat at. If you round your back in a deadlift you’re only hurting yourself.
I can’t imagine many more ways to cheat in the deadlift. But if you cheat in the squat by rounding your back or not coming down far enough you can potentially injure yourself, rob yourself of the exercises benefits, and trick yourself into thinking you can handle twice as much weight as you can.
[quote]FightingScott wrote:
…
But if you cheat in the squat by rounding your back or not coming down far enough you can potentially injure yourself, rob yourself of the exercises benefits, and trick yourself into thinking you can handle twice as much weight as you can. [/quote]
An Overhead Squat will take care of that problem. 'cause if u try to cheat, u’ll drop the bar.
by the way, these 2 variatons of the O-lifs are very helpfull.
-A powersnatch-to-overheadsquat is one hell of a workout.
-As well as clean-to-frontsquat-to-pushpress.
[quote]justhrowit wrote:
Both! To say one is better than the other is almost crazy. Your try to compare (arguably) the two most beneficial lifts you can perform. There are variations of the both deads and squats that can be done as well. In college we cycled our workouts. We would change our core lifts every three to four week. We did both squats and deads (and variants of) at different times of the year. They both make you stronger, bigger, faster, and can give you a better vertical. To say one is better than the other is arbitrary.
j [/quote]
yeah what’s the point of asking an unessecary hypothetical question. do both…
[quote]NeoSpartan wrote:
FightingScott wrote:
…
by the way, these 2 variatons of the O-lifs are very helpfull.
-A powersnatch-to-overheadsquat is one hell of a workout.
-As well as clean-to-frontsquat-to-pushpress.
[/quote]
I gotta admit Olympic lifts are better for developing an athlete than the other two choices. Front Squats and Deadlifts are really just drills for olympic lifts.
[quote]That One Guy wrote:
justhrowit wrote:
Both! To say one is better than the other is almost crazy. Your try to compare (arguably) the two most beneficial lifts you can perform. There are variations of the both deads and squats that can be done as well. In college we cycled our workouts. We would change our core lifts every three to four week. We did both squats and deads (and variants of) at different times of the year. They both make you stronger, bigger, faster, and can give you a better vertical. To say one is better than the other is arbitrary.
j
yeah what’s the point of asking an unessecary hypothetical question. do both…[/quote]
Probably because the weekend is my only free time I have and while I enjoy lifting I’m not trying to stay in the gym all weekend.
just do both and then when u wanna maintrain ur strenght and increase reation and explosiveness do
powe cleans and plyos.