Dirty Gerdy: How Do You Train?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
41

I will mention something related to what Gerdy said about overtraining—it’s harder to overtrain if you stay with higher rep ranges. This is because as long as you eat and sleep enough, your body (muscles) recover quickly from mechanical damage…and can be gradually trained to recover quicker. It’s still possible to overtrain, but it takes a concerted effort to do so most times, and hence is not something to worry about as Gerdy said. Too many people worry about that.

If, on the other hand, you do a significant amount of training in the low rep ranges (1-4), it IS possible to overtrain, because the CNS recovers significantly slower than the muscles. CNS drain consequently drains EVERYTHING ELSE. This is because any strain on your CNS isn’t necessarily compartmentalized to that one system. It bleeds over to the rest of your body because the CNS is responsible for controlling all systems of the body. And if it has trouble recovering, the rest of you will suffer. It’s the motor.

In this case it won’t matter how much you eat after a certain critical point. After that point your CNS just can’t recharge fast enough for what you throw at it. It can be trained to recover faster (witness Olympic lifters) but the process is much slower than increasing muscular recovery ability.

42

Good stuff DG. KISS along with hard work and knowing your body is definitely working for you and is reassuring to see.

43

I agree with Aragorn. You can tell when your body is ‘overtrained’ your weak, tired, and lose motivation. When that happens most DONT train and then it fixes itself lol. The CNS recovers slower than muscle itself.

I am still a believer in pushing yourself to the brink of overtraining and then backing off instead of never pushing yourself in the first place.

My arms are currently between 17.25 and 17.5 on a good day un pumped and well over 18 pumped. My last show I think they were just a little over 17.5 pumped so I’ve made progress.

I’ve been doing an ‘arms only’ day since my show…now 2 arms only days the past month and they have really ramped up. They feel pumped throughout the week from all the work I give em. lol At first I thought I might be overworking them, but then again my strength is up, size is up, so something is working right lol.

to be honest I used to force myself to alternate rep ranges where I will do everythign super heavy, then just higher volume, etc. Now I mix it up every workout and sometimes even different exercises. To make the muscle grow you really just need to beat the hell out of it and give it what it needs to grow which is food/rest.

Thats reall basic, but say for back I deadlift in the 4-6 rep range then go do weighted pullups for sets of 12-15 reps…or maybe finish that workout by doing pullovers to failure. Occasionally me and some of my training partners will just drop some weight and tell each other not to spot until we die.

The other day we trained shoulders and were doing military on the smith. We did 3 working sets and the 4 sets dropped the weight down to a 45 on each side and I just kept going…I think I had like almost 30 reps or so until I needed a spot and then got another 3-4. My shoulders are killing me still and that was a couple days ago.

So it varies, and sometimes in the workout.

lol

DG

44

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
I agree with Aragorn. You can tell when your body is ‘overtrained’ your weak, tired, and lose motivation. When that happens most DONT train and then it fixes itself lol. The CNS recovers slower than muscle itself.

I am still a believer in pushing yourself to the brink of overtraining and then backing off instead of never pushing yourself in the first place.

[/quote]

I totally agree. My post was just to try and highlight the differences between bodybuilding training and most powerlifting/O-lifting/Thrower types of training, where extremely CNS intensive work is typically done regularly, and therefore where “down” weeks or rest weeks should be planned for and thrown in regularly in a periodized scheme.

45

separate question: My arms are lagging. I never really do much work for them, unless it’s tricep work for bench assistance. I’m considering throwing an arm day in to focus on them (esp. biceps which are lagging seriously). Arms are about 17.25 cold and un-flexed. Need more biceps.

It won’t be right now, or even in the next few weeks, because I’m focused on squat training and I don’t want to be throwing yet more volume at myself right now. But I want a place to put dedicated arm work–and after my back work I have no energy left.

Here’s my split:

Mon–Max Legs
Tues–heavy Back
Wed–Heavy bench/tricep/boards
Thurs–OFF
Frid–Legs, RE or DE
Sat OR Sun–bench, RE or full ROM day (depends on weekend schedule as to when it falls. I try to keep it on Sat)

Shoulder/lat work is usually done on bench days.

So, where the hell would I throw in bicep work or an arm day?? Any ideas? I’m very happy with my current split overall.

46

Well Aragorn you have “OFF” labeled for thursday. You could always do biceps then :wink:

47

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
So, where the hell would I throw in bicep work or an arm day?? Any ideas? I’m very happy with my current split overall.[/quote]

Obv. I’m not Gerdy, but Tues./Sat. would be my advice.

Tuesday doing biceps after heavy back work makes sense. The biceps are already receiving indirect stimulation (albeit minimal) from the heavy pulling.

Sat., especially if doing RE bench work, would make perfect sense as you can probably work in like a superset of high-rep band pushdowns for triceps with 3-4 sets of biceps.

Maybe make Tuesday a machine/isolation day and Sat. a barbell/dumbbell day. You’re going to have to figure out what biceps exercises work for you, but that would be the most logical placement, given your split.

48

Hello DG:

Could you type your squat poundages during a typical leg day. Your quads have a good development. Also, have you found your legs genetics superior?

Thanks in advance.

49

Aragorn: I’d throw biceps in either with back or on your chest/triceps day. I’ve trained chest/bi before and liked it because my biceps are relatively fresh after benching and this is almost like doing a chest/arms workout if you beat up your tries while training chest.

Training them after back is the bread and butter standard and i did that for a while too but didn’t like it much because my ‘bicep work’ and the weights I used was always hindered by the pre fatigue they got from the back workout. With that split I don’t see a day where you could do an arms only day unless you decided to do a 2/day on one day of the week if time permits.

The whole reason for an arms only day is to be able to hit them while your fresh…otherwise they are usually after a bodypart…how many people train biceps and THEN back…nobody…so unless you train arms solo you will have some type of pre-fatigue imo…

Heymz: I have squatted 500+ before but honestly don’t go much over 465 anymore as I’m trying to fully get ATG. I’m talking hamstrings touching my calves. I have gone over 1000lbs on leg press for 8-10 reps before. Squats are generally in the 6-8 rep range. My hams/gluts are genetic SUCK POINTS if thats the word for them…probably because of my height.

My quads on the other hand could be genetics or the fact that I was a catcher in baseball for like 14 years. My vastus lateralus still needs some work as I want that severe sweep like dennis wolf. I also think I need more seperation in my legs which I believe can be fixed by muscle maturity and a better diet.

It’s very hard for younger guys to get that deep seperation in the quads and I think muscle maturity has a role in it…also genetics play a small role too imo…the teardrop is the only part of my leg I’m satisfied with as I think that it grows soo fast that it may take away from the other parts of the quadricep lol

Either way at my height I don’t think I can ever have too big of anything in the leg department. With the exception of Toney Freeman you don’t see too many tall guys without some type of major flaw in the legs. Think Wolf and everybody bashing his hams/calves…

DG

50

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Well Aragorn you have “OFF” labeled for thursday. You could always do biceps then ;)[/quote]

lol. Yes I do. And for good reason. I don’t even want to see a gym by Thursday. I guess I could do them then, if I’m not doing anything else. The biggest hurdle I guess would be actually persuading myself to go to the gym since I view a biceps only day kind of like wanking off in public…there’s just no need to ever have to see that :P.

I don’t even remember the last time I had an “arms day”. I think it was something like 2002.

Seriously.

51

[quote]Affliction wrote:
Aragorn wrote:
So, where the hell would I throw in bicep work or an arm day?? Any ideas? I’m very happy with my current split overall.

Obv. I’m not Gerdy, but Tues./Sat. would be my advice.

Tuesday doing biceps after heavy back work makes sense. The biceps are already receiving indirect stimulation (albeit minimal) from the heavy pulling.

Sat., especially if doing RE bench work, would make perfect sense as you can probably work in like a superset of high-rep band pushdowns for triceps with 3-4 sets of biceps.

Maybe make Tuesday a machine/isolation day and Sat. a barbell/dumbbell day. You’re going to have to figure out what biceps exercises work for you, but that would be the most logical placement, given your split.[/quote]

Makes sense. Biggest problem I have for tagging stuff onto the end of my sessions is energy levels on any day that I’m in the gym, but particularly Mon/Tues/Wed. Easy machine work could do the trick there I guess.

Sat. is a possibility, but I’m already jamming shoulders, tris and lats and sometimes chest in, in addition to a lot of volume pushing via bench.

Thanks for the advice both of you.

Ok, sorry for the hijack Gerdy. Back to listening mode.

52

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Aragorn: I’d throw biceps in either with back or on your chest/triceps day. I’ve trained chest/bi before and liked it because my biceps are relatively fresh after benching and this is almost like doing a chest/arms workout if you beat up your tries while training chest.

Training them after back is the bread and butter standard and i did that for a while too but didn’t like it much because my ‘bicep work’ and the weights I used was always hindered by the pre fatigue they got from the back workout. With that split I don’t see a day where you could do an arms only day unless you decided to do a 2/day on one day of the week if time permits.

The whole reason for an arms only day is to be able to hit them while your fresh…otherwise they are usually after a bodypart…how many people train biceps and THEN back…nobody…so unless you train arms solo you will have some type of pre-fatigue imo…

Heymz: I have squatted 500+ before but honestly don’t go much over 465 anymore as I’m trying to fully get ATG. I’m talking hamstrings touching my calves. I have gone over 1000lbs on leg press for 8-10 reps before. Squats are generally in the 6-8 rep range. My hams/gluts are genetic SUCK POINTS if thats the word for them…probably because of my height.

My quads on the other hand could be genetics or the fact that I was a catcher in baseball for like 14 years. My vastus lateralus still needs some work as I want that severe sweep like dennis wolf. I also think I need more seperation in my legs which I believe can be fixed by muscle maturity and a better diet.

It’s very hard for younger guys to get that deep seperation in the quads and I think muscle maturity has a role in it…also genetics play a small role too imo…the teardrop is the only part of my leg I’m satisfied with as I think that it grows soo fast that it may take away from the other parts of the quadricep lol

Either way at my height I don’t think I can ever have too big of anything in the leg department. With the exception of Toney Freeman you don’t see too many tall guys without some type of major flaw in the legs. Think Wolf and everybody bashing his hams/calves…

DG[/quote]

I agree completely, I’m 5’11" and my hams make Arnies look good lol…quads are good though. One thing I have been doing lately that has made a noticeable difference is heal presses on the leg press. It feels akward at first but the results are there. I’m unable to do stiff legged deads due to a herniated disk.

53

Hey DG

I’m a good way off from my own show, but I’d love to hear how you come into a contest. Last week carb manipulation and such. I’ve read, and reread Thibs’ 6 days to shredded article, and will probably follow that, but I know some folks carb up over several days, and not just the day before. What’s your approach?

S

54

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Hey DG

I’m a good way off from my own show, but I’d love to hear how you come into a contest. Last week carb manipulation and such. I’ve read, and reread Thibs’ 6 days to shredded article, and will probably follow that, but I know some folks carb up over several days, and not just the day before. What’s your approach?

S
[/quote]

well my diet is completely different than your average guys being that I don’t cut too many carbs throughout my diet. I follow a very basic cyclical approach in that I try and have protein/carb or protein/fat meals and I increase green veggies and salads. I also vary my carbs depending on activity levels and just overall look. If I’m 2-3 weeks out and know I have a good 5lbs to lose then I slowly drop them. A lot of it is reading your body and knowing how you respond to carbs. Remember I could probably eat Cold Stone Ice Cream everyday and still have most of my abs. Just genetics.

I honestly start my carb load a couple days before the show as I think my body responds better this way, but I think 24hrs should suffice for most people. Slowly add them in (sodium free rice cakes and honey is nice the night before and morning of the show) and you can even add in some peanut butter as you can fill out on fat too.

I typically start my carb load when I start cutting water. Keep in mind that I do use diruetics and Idk what you can use for your show…carb loading when you aren’t carrying much water because of the diruetics isn’t too dangerous, but if you don’t cut that much water adding in carbs and spilling over will make you look soft. Also be careful with the peanut butter when your not drinking anything :S LOL!

Prisoner and I both commented on this in another thread on the front page of this forum…I think the title is something about preparing for a first show.

Other things I recommend is the Prep H thing. Start rubbing preparation H on your trouble spots 3 days or so out from the show. Could be a complete waste or in theory help shrink some fat cells by sucking water out of them. Thats how it works with hemmorhoids I believe lol.

I also believe in training with heavy weights for abs a couple weeks out. This gives the abs a thicker blockier look and if your peeled with decent seperation it brings them out a little bit. Try and avoid any oblique training a couple weeks out as i would want them to atrophy as much as possible (love handles) and this leads to a bigger vtaper imo.

Hope that helps…

DG

55

Thanks for the advice Gerdy. Appreciate it. Dunno how I missed it on my first read through of the thread last night.

56

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Thanks for the advice Gerdy. Appreciate it. Dunno how I missed it on my first read through of the thread last night. [/quote]

NP man anytime. :wink:

DG

57

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Aragorn: I’d throw biceps in either with back or on your chest/triceps day. I’ve trained chest/bi before and liked it because my biceps are relatively fresh after benching and this is almost like doing a chest/arms workout if you beat up your tries while training chest.

Training them after back is the bread and butter standard and i did that for a while too but didn’t like it much because my ‘bicep work’ and the weights I used was always hindered by the pre fatigue they got from the back workout.

With that split I don’t see a day where you could do an arms only day unless you decided to do a 2/day on one day of the week if time permits.

The whole reason for an arms only day is to be able to hit them while your fresh…otherwise they are usually after a bodypart…how many people train biceps and THEN back…nobody…so unless you train arms solo you will have some type of pre-fatigue imo…

Heymz: I have squatted 500+ before but honestly don’t go much over 465 anymore as I’m trying to fully get ATG. I’m talking hamstrings touching my calves. I have gone over 1000lbs on leg press for 8-10 reps before.

Squats are generally in the 6-8 rep range. My hams/gluts are genetic SUCK POINTS if thats the word for them…probably because of my height.

My quads on the other hand could be genetics or the fact that I was a catcher in baseball for like 14 years. My vastus lateralus still needs some work as I want that severe sweep like dennis wolf. I also think I need more seperation in my legs which I believe can be fixed by muscle maturity and a better diet.

It’s very hard for younger guys to get that deep seperation in the quads and I think muscle maturity has a role in it…also genetics play a small role too imo…the teardrop is the only part of my leg I’m satisfied with as I think that it grows soo fast that it may take away from the other parts of the quadricep lol

Either way at my height I don’t think I can ever have too big of anything in the leg department. With the exception of Toney Freeman you don’t see too many tall guys without some type of major flaw in the legs. Think Wolf and everybody bashing his hams/calves…

DG[/quote]

Thanks for your answer Gerdy. I agree with your opinion that quad development and separation is related with muscle maturity. I’m concerned right now mostly on leg development 'cause I intend to do a junior show on may 2010.

I still have time to gain a lot of size, but I think I need about 4 inches of growth in my tighs to be competing for a placing. These junior guys here in Mexico are judged mostly on their legs, which is my most lagging part.

The time you’ve been around competitors, which workload should be the minimum to give to my legs and have decent results?

I think the answer is obvious to some extent. It’s individual, you need progressive overload, etc… but what’s the volume someone of your caliber should be putting up for legs?

I’ve begun to correct some aspects to optimize my leg training. Better shoes for squatting, plenty of sleep before leg day, focus on load progression. Which other things would you suggest?

58

DG, poor child… Come and try my diet so that you can finally gain some fat… Then the other children won’t avoid you anymore…
You’ll have friends…

:wink:

59

HEYMZ:

Any show you do will judge your legs pretty harshly. Legs and back is what wins Olympia right? It carries down to all shows at all levels imo.

To be honest only you will know what works best for your legs. What worked for me is I used to love to squat (still do but it hurts more now) I loved getting psyched out and throwing on as much weight as possible and then just banging out reps.

In the beginning this is awesome but once you start repping 400-500lbs then it starts really hurting and I also think it gets dangerous so you start looking for different ways to keep them growing.

I think that leg curls and extensions should be used in every workout either as a warm up pre-exhaust in the beginning or a finisher at the end of your workout.

In the beginning I used to squat and then leg press but seldomly do that now its generally one or the other. I never hack squatted in the beginning but found I really like that now and do either leg press/hack squats or squats/hack squats.

I still believe in training heavy over anything so a 3-4 sets of 6-10 reps is going to be the norm. To be honest this rep range is what you will find most bodybuilders doing to be honest.

I believe with legs that you really have to beat the shit out of them to get great results. If you leave the gym on leg day walking normally to your car then you didn’t train hard enough. I’m damn near crippled for a few days after a proper leg day.

flat soled shoes help, esp when squatting heavy…there is no shittier feeling than feeling your ‘nike shocks’ squish while under the bar :S Proper rest is always a must with any training lol

I was also a catcher in baseball and I believe this built up quite a bit of strength in my legs, in high school I had no troubles with 365-405 for maxes which I know is nothing astounding that many kids can do that…but also not many kids can, and especially at a bodyweight of about 160-175lbs back then with my lanky frame I was proud of it.

Tear em up, feed em, rest em = growth. Its that simple in the end imo…

:wink:

DG

60

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
DG, poor child… Come and try my diet so that you can finally gain some fat… Then the other children won’t avoid you anymore…
You’ll have friends…

:wink:

[/quote]

lol if you send me a diet plan C_C I will give it a shot. :wink:

DG