T Nation

Congrats New Jersey

We ended the death penalty this week.

And I, for one, am fucking proud.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
We ended the death penalty this week.

And I, for one, am fucking proud.[/quote]

I don’t believe in the death penalty either, but who cares? You guys hadn’t executed anyone in over 30 years. None of your death row guys would have ever actually been executed.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
We ended the death penalty this week.

And I, for one, am fucking proud.

I don’t believe in the death penalty either, but who cares? You guys hadn’t executed anyone in over 30 years. None of your death row guys would have ever actually been executed.

mike[/quote]

I know. But now it’s official… It is symbolic.

Rome to light Colosseum when NJ bans death penalty
by The Associated Press
Friday December 14, 2007, 6:10 PM
Rome plans to flush golden light through the arches of the ancient Colosseum for 24 hours in celebration of New Jersey’s expected abolishment of the death penalty.

The Sant’Egidio Community, which is at the forefront of an international anti-death penalty movement, said in a statement the Colosseum - once the arena for deadly gladiator combat and executions - will be illuminated next week, once Gov. Jon Corzine signs the legislation.

“We light it up when there is real good news, a real step forward in the campaign against the death penalty,” Mario Marazziti, a spokesman for Sant’Egidio and coordinator of its campaign for a world-wide moratorium of the death penalty, said in a telephone interview from Italy.

Earlier this week, the New Jersey Legislature voted to replace the state’s never-used death penalty with life in prison without parole. Gov. Jon Corzine is scheduled to sign the bill Monday morning. In doing so, New Jersey will become the first state in four decades to abolish the death penalty.

The Colosseum lighting will occur Tuesday, Marazziti said.

I guess they decided that living in Jersey was punishment enough.

Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?[/quote]

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike [/quote]

To kill in cold blood is to kill without emotion or reason. Would the men deserving it make it not cold blooded? I do not wish for people to die but these people are disgusting and should be eliminated,they in no way benefit society.

True I have also heard how it cost for injections and so on, how about a bullet in the head(pretty cheap). The man is defenseless at the time of execution but, no one forced him to make the decisions that put him in that position.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike [/quote]

Exactly how I feel.

The only criminal that should be put to death are those that are simply too dangerous to remain alive- i.e. Charles Manson or any other proven sociopathic serial killer, or war criminals, i.e. Hussein, Hitler, etc.

Besides being inhumane… I think that with everything else… too much of a chance of an innocent man put to death, which is a crime of unimaginable horror.

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike

To kill in cold blood is to kill without emotion or reason. Would the men deserving it make it not cold blooded? I do not wish for people to die but these people are disgusting and should be eliminated,they in no way benefit society.

True I have also heard how it cost for injections and so on, how about a bullet in the head(pretty cheap). The man is defenseless at the time of execution but, no one forced him to make the decisions that put him in that position.

[/quote]

I was for the death penalty for a long time… until I saw “The Long Green Mile”. It had a profound effect on the way I think all in all, and it affected how I looked at the death penalty.

God, if he’s there, would not say to execute prisoners. Good men don’t kill defenseless men, and mercy will always be more important, and more admirable, then revenge. America should be past this point. And I’m glad Jersey was the first to do so.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike

Exactly how I feel.

The only criminal that should be put to death are those that are simply too dangerous to remain alive- i.e. Charles Manson or any other proven sociopathic serial killer, or war criminals, i.e. Hussein, Hitler, etc.

Besides being inhumane… I think that with everything else… too much of a chance of an innocent man put to death, which is a crime of unimaginable horror.[/quote]

Someone like charles manson would not be given the chance of parole anyways (serial killer) so why would you kill him and not the child rapist or one time murderer?

I think killing an innocent person would be horrible but I think the number of innocent deathrow/life inmates is pretty small, of these it is not like all of them are going to get a chance to appeal anyways.

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?[/quote]

I agree. I’m not a cheerleader of the death penalty, Texas’ 382 people in the last quarter century is either a gross miscarriage of justice or a cultural epidemic. However, recent events in Illinois forced me to reconsider my position. Former Governor George Ryan (now a convict himself) granted blanket clemency to 167 death row inmates.

Many of the inmates didn’t claim innocence and most were open and shut cases. Henry Brisbon, known as the “I-57 killer”, at one point ordered an engaged couple to kiss their last kiss before shooting them to death. Jaqueline Williams and Fedell Caffey killed two children and then proceeded to cut a full term fetus from their pregnant mother’s womb. Only the fetus survived.

People like Mikyali needn’t worry. Scum like this wouldn’t be killed in cold blood.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike

To kill in cold blood is to kill without emotion or reason. Would the men deserving it make it not cold blooded? I do not wish for people to die but these people are disgusting and should be eliminated,they in no way benefit society.

True I have also heard how it cost for injections and so on, how about a bullet in the head(pretty cheap). The man is defenseless at the time of execution but, no one forced him to make the decisions that put him in that position.

I was for the death penalty for a long time… until I saw “The Long Green Mile”. It had a profound effect on the way I think all in all, and it affected how I looked at the death penalty.

God, if he’s there, would not say to execute prisoners. Good men don’t kill defenseless men, and mercy will always be more important, and more admirable, then revenge. America should be past this point. And I’m glad Jersey was the first to do so.[/quote]

I have never seen the green mile, please explain.

I want this world to be a safer and better place for everyone. Money used to keep them alive can be used for so many other things. I do not see it as revenge I see it as necessary. Why would you forgive or show compassion to a monster?

Many people are quick to say they should be forgiven or shown mercy but, I ask you would you forgive the man that raped and murdered your child?

Doesn’t anyone else think life in a tiny little cell with little too no human contact and/or very, very unhappy human contact is a much more severe punishment than death?

I don’t want child rapists getting the sweet escape of an injection.

Welcome to civilization!

Some previous good discussions on the death penalty here:

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=838732&pageNo=0

and

http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1719131

[quote]lixy wrote:
Welcome to civilization![/quote]

Seriously? This is the kind of thing that keeps me from at least respecting your opinions. Iranians hang a 16 year old girl by the neck till dead, and you called her a slut. You went on to say that she played with fire and got burned. Indeed, you did your best in that thread to paint her as nothing more than a whore who died because of some judicial paperwork ‘mistakes’. In short, you became extremely defensive.

But, since we’re speaking about a US state, it’s “Welcome to civilization!” There’s plenty of people that disagree with my views on here. But, most of those, I feel, come from an honest and consistent point of view.

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Just a question why would you not want the death penalty? Does it not cost the state money to keep deathrow inmates alive?

I believe the country should eliminate all scum from prisons: child molesters, rapist, murderers why would you want these people alive?

I just don’t like the idea of good men killing in cold blood. That isn’t to say that many of these guys don’t deserve death. Hell, I kind of like the idea of issuing death penalties symbolically even. I think the only time death penalties should be carried out are when the criminal’s continued existence is a threat, such as with Saddam.

I’ve heard the money argument with both sides coming out more expensive, but I really don’t trust either side to be honest in that department. It comes down to the fact that an execution is murder, like it or not. It seems barbaric to kill a defenseless man.

mike

To kill in cold blood is to kill without emotion or reason. Would the men deserving it make it not cold blooded? I do not wish for people to die but these people are disgusting and should be eliminated,they in no way benefit society.[/quote]

Very well, let me rephrase. An executioner may not kill in cold blood, but he is killing a defenseless man. What decent person can carry out this duty? Besides, there are plenty of people that don’t benefit society. That doesn’t mean we get to kill them. Frankly, if we all were a little more armed as well you would see fewer murderers on death row, and many more in pine boxes. [quote]

True I have also heard how it cost for injections and so on, how about a bullet in the head(pretty cheap). The man is defenseless at the time of execution but, no one forced him to make the decisions that put him in that position.
[/quote]

Yes, I think IF we did do executions they should be more like firing squads or hanging. Though I don’t like the idea of one guy firing a blank in a firing squad. It’s the way I’d choose to go out. I feel like the chair or lethal injections or the gas chamber are far too degrading of ways to die. I’d prefer to go out on my feet like a man. But that’s just a personal preference and doesn’t carry too much for the debate so I’ll shut up.

mike

[quote]Sloth wrote:
But, since we’re speaking about a US state, it’s “Welcome to civilization!” There’s plenty of people that disagree with my views on here. But, most of those, I feel, come from an honest and consistent point of view.[/quote]

What’s your take Sloth? I’d be interested to hear it.

mike

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
I want this world to be a safer and better place for everyone. Money used to keep them alive can be used for so many other things. I do not see it as revenge I see it as necessary. Why would you forgive or show compassion to a monster?[/quote]

Those last two sentences are at odds with each other. In one you argue for necessity and in the other you make a case for vengeance.

Why is it necessary? I can sympathize for the idea of the death penalty as a deterrent. I don’t think it works in most cases, but it probably does in some. I just don’t see the pros outweighing the cons of what it makes us as a people. [quote]

Many people are quick to say they should be forgiven or shown mercy but, I ask you would you forgive the man that raped and murdered your child?
[/quote]

I won’t speak of forgiveness or mercy. I don’t believe in the death penalty for self-interested reasons, not in the interests of a killer. And if my kid was murdered I would want vengeance. Then again, I’d want to be the one with his hand on the switch. I don’t know how much satisfaction I would have with someone else doing the job for me. I can’t say that I would be above wanting vengeance, but that wouldn’t make it right.

Even so, let’s look at the death penalty as it stands today. It certainly isn’t about vengeance or the victim’s family would be invited to be the executioner. So what is it about? A criminal can’t hurt anyone else behind bars. That person is also being punished by losing his freedom. What then do we get as a society from its existence?

But you cannot argue based on emotion, that can lead you down many dark paths. You have to leave emotion at the door to come to a logical conclusion.

mike

[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Welcome to civilization!

Seriously? This is the kind of thing that keeps me from at least respecting your opinions. Iranians hang a 16 year old girl by the neck till dead, and you called her a slut. You went on to say that she played with fire and got burned. Indeed, you did your best in that thread to paint her as nothing more than a whore who died because of some judicial paperwork ‘mistakes’. In short, you became extremely defensive.

But, since we’re speaking about a US state, it’s “Welcome to civilization!” There’s plenty of people that disagree with my views on here. But, most of those, I feel, come from an honest and consistent point of view.[/quote]

Because lixy is consumed with blind hatred and it tinges every post.