Chavez to Cut Off Oil

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]lixy wrote:

  • Suicide bombers are not cowards! Depending on who they target (the invaders whom they can’t defeat any other way, or the innocent shopper in a Baghdad market), they are either damn courageous heroes or suicidal criminal maniacs. You can accuse them of being irrational, impulsive or even stupid, but the one thing you can’t say is that they’re cowards. They were the ones being aggressed.[/quote]

You can’t have an objective opinion on the matter because you admire the suicide bombers too much.

They are cowards, though - nothing particularly brave about attacking people who have no means of fighting back (objective test) for an inhumane cause (values test).

“Damn courageous heroes”, aye? True colors, Lixy - you are finished.

42

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…How to kill lots of you while losing relatively few of them.

You really have no idea what is going on, do you?

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”. [/quote]

You are just reinforcing your lack of knowledge.

43

[quote]lixy wrote:
Let’s get this straightened out once and for all:

  • Suicide bombers are not cowards! Depending on who they target (the invaders whom they can’t defeat any other way, or the innocent shopper in a Baghdad market), they are either damn courageous heroes or suicidal criminal maniacs. You can accuse them of being irrational, impulsive or even stupid, but the one thing you can’t say is that they’re cowards. They were the ones being aggressed.

  • The idea that suicide bombers generally blow themselves up for pussy is a myth and shows complete and total ignorance of the issue. Although, I can understand that it is more appealing to some of you to think in those terms to rationalize the horrors and killings perpetrated in your name and on your dime. Suicide bombers in Iraq are driven by plenty of things: nationalism, Arabism, a profound sense of despair and the inability to do anything about the bloody foreigners from half-way across the globe who invaded Iraq.

Anyway, this whole situation was predicted from the get go. No, not by one silent scholar in the Galapagos Islands, but by the entire world along with millions of Americans. And trust me, all the orphaned Iraqis are yet to take their (mostly symbolic) revenge.[/quote]

Obviously you do not get that people who blow themselves up to achieve something are clearly irrational, while a country that attacks Iraq because Saudis aided by Afghans blew up a few towers in NY is the pinnacle of rational politics.

44

[quote]orion wrote:

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”. [/quote]

Depends a lot on who is constituting the insurgency doesn’t it?

Right now, and for the last year at least, it has been foreign Islamic militants, not Iraqis, doing the bombing and mounting the insurgency. Not only is the flypaper theory turning out to be true, but al Queda Iraq is getting crushed - and they don’t have a limitless supply of new bodies - particularly trained bodies - to throw at the fight.

45

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…How to kill lots of you while losing relatively few of them.

You really have no idea what is going on, do you?

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”.

You are just reinforcing your lack of knowledge.
[/quote]

Am I?

How so?

46

The American invasion of Iraq has been the best recruitment ad for al Qaeda ever. If we had simply left them unnamed this battle of “Truth, Justice, and the American Way” would have been so much easier. Of course it would have gone better if we had simple kept our sites on Afghanistan to begin with.

Vietnam II will eventually be seen for what it is – a complete waste.

47

[quote]orion wrote:
pat wrote:

Quit while your behind.

Am I?
[/quote]

yup. Way.

If you buy gas you do.

Yup, have you been asleep? You got terrorist cell building up all over europe.
[/quote]

You were the one extolling the virtuous, brave efforts of the suicide bombers targeting and killing civilians, not me. Don’t try some fancy Jedi mind trick to turn it on me. You said it, it’s referable.
Hey it’s a free internet, if you want to celebrate the efforts of suicide bombers go ahead. We’ll like wise feel free to criticize you for it.

48

[quote]lixy wrote:
Let’s get this straightened out once and for all:

  • Suicide bombers are not cowards! Depending on who they target (the invaders whom they can’t defeat any other way, or the innocent shopper in a Baghdad market), they are either damn courageous heroes or suicidal criminal maniacs. You can accuse them of being irrational, impulsive or even stupid, but the one thing you can’t say is that they’re cowards. They were the ones being aggressed.

  • The idea that suicide bombers generally blow themselves up for pussy is a myth and shows complete and total ignorance of the issue. Although, I can understand that it is more appealing to some of you to think in those terms to rationalize the horrors and killings perpetrated in your name and on your dime. Suicide bombers in Iraq are driven by plenty of things: nationalism, Arabism, a profound sense of despair and the inability to do anything about the bloody foreigners from half-way across the globe who invaded Iraq.

Anyway, this whole situation was predicted from the get go. No, not by one silent scholar in the Galapagos Islands, but by the entire world along with millions of Americans. And trust me, all the orphaned Iraqis are yet to take their (mostly symbolic) revenge.[/quote]

Oh fucking please! It doesn’t matter why they do it in the end. They have one thing in common. They are all idiots of incredible magnitude.
If you want to know why they do it the reason is very clear, pure unadulterated hate.

49

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
orion wrote:

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”.

Depends a lot on who is constituting the insurgency doesn’t it?

Right now, and for the last year at least, it has been foreign Islamic militants, not Iraqis, doing the bombing and mounting the insurgency. Not only is the flypaper theory turning out to be true, but al Queda Iraq is getting crushed - and they don’t have a limitless supply of new bodies - particularly trained bodies - to throw at the fight.[/quote]

According to US intelligence 3% of all Iraqi insurgents are alQuaeda- Then, they do not need trained bodies to throw at you, they need someone to push a button.

You, on the other hand are already stretched painfully thin-

How long is the US army able to keep that up and how long will Iraqi insurgents be able to build primitive explosive devices and to recruit dirt poor fanatics with nothing to lose, which to a large degree are conveniently “built” by the US.

Contrary to popular belief far less than 10% of all insurgents come from outside the Iraq and less than 10% of their attacks are aimed at Iraqi civilians.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

Tactics of the Iraqi insurgency - Wikipedia

50

[quote]pat wrote:
orion wrote:
pat wrote:

Quit while your behind.

Am I?

yup. Way.

Is my money used to keep oil prices high and to feed the empire?

If you buy gas you do.

Am I or my relatives in danger of being attacked?

Yup, have you been asleep? You got terrorist cell building up all over europe.

You were the one extolling the virtuous, brave efforts of the suicide bombers targeting and killing civilians, not me. Don’t try some fancy Jedi mind trick to turn it on me. You said it, it’s referable.
Hey it’s a free internet, if you want to celebrate the efforts of suicide bombers go ahead. We’ll like wise feel free to criticize you for it.[/quote]

I said that they are not cowards, you claim I called them heroes.

I am not responsible for the voices in your head.

Plus, they do not target civilians, they target you and the people upholding your puppet regime.

51

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…How to kill lots of you while losing relatively few of them.

You really have no idea what is going on, do you?

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”.

You are just reinforcing your lack of knowledge.

Am I?

How so?

[/quote]

Do a little reading on the way is progressing. You will see that their casualties are quite high and you will see that they have almost given up on targeting US soldiers. It has been this way for quite a while.

In fact most US casualties now are as a result of aggressive action against these pricks.

Most of their targets are civilians.

52

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…How to kill lots of you while losing relatively few of them.

You really have no idea what is going on, do you?

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”.

You are just reinforcing your lack of knowledge.

Am I?

How so?

Do a little reading on the way is progressing. You will see that their casualties are quite high and you will see that they have almost given up on targeting US soldiers. It has been this way for quite a while.

In fact most US casualties now are as a result of aggressive action against these pricks.

Most of their targets are civilians.[/quote]

Care to back that up with anything?

So far, American soldiers are dying at approximately the same rate as before and the insurgents are not running out of men.

Their causality rate is probably better than that of the Vietnamese which was good enough for them to win and infinitely better than trying to confront the US in open battle-

The claim that they mainly target civilians is unsubstantiated, though I can imagine that quite a lot of civilians die when you attack a checkpoint or ambush a convoy.

That however would be “collateral” damage which means according to your logic that they do not count.

53

[quote]orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
orion wrote:
…How to kill lots of you while losing relatively few of them.

You really have no idea what is going on, do you?

Of course I do.

They want you gone.

You´ll go sooner or later.

Considering they are waging war against a western power their causalities are surprisingly low, if you do not count Iraqi civilians as “them”.

You are just reinforcing your lack of knowledge.

Am I?

How so?

Do a little reading on the way is progressing. You will see that their casualties are quite high and you will see that they have almost given up on targeting US soldiers. It has been this way for quite a while.

In fact most US casualties now are as a result of aggressive action against these pricks.

Most of their targets are civilians.

Care to back that up with anything?

So far, American soldiers are dying at approximately the same rate as before and the insurgents are not running out of men.

Their causality rate is probably better than that of the Vietnamese which was good enough for them to win and infinitely better than trying to confront the US in open battle-

The claim that they mainly target civilians is unsubstantiated, though I can imagine that quite a lot of civilians die when you attack a checkpoint or ambush a convoy.

That however would be “collateral” damage which means according to your logic that they do not count.

[/quote]

Do a little reading of people that have actually been there and less info from Wiki. You are ill informed and frankly it is a waste of my time to try to educate you.

Bombs go off in markets and mosques and bus drivers kids are kidnapped. In your warped mind these are the people that prop up the Iraqi regime?

54

[quote]orion wrote:
…

Contrary to popular belief far less than 10% of all insurgents come from outside the Iraq and less than 10% of their attacks are aimed at Iraqi civilians.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0923/dailyUpdate.html

Tactics of the Iraqi insurgency - Wikipedia [/quote]

An interesting choice of stats.

From the wikipedia article:

In February 2007, the Pentagon�??s quarterly report, Stability and Security in Iraq, found that “Although most attacks continue to be directed against coalition forces, Iraqi civilians suffer the vast majority of the casualties”.[3] In late 2006, the BBC News website covered the issue, noting that although “about 80% of insurgent attacks are targeted against coalition forces, the Iraqi population suffers about 80% of all casualties, according to US officials in late 2005.” This page, which includes an illustrative bar graph, was last updated November 2006.

Also from the wikipedia article:

A 2005 Human Rights Watch report analyzes the insurgency in Iraq and highlights “the groups that are most responsible for the abuse, namely al-Qaeda in Iraq, Ansar al-Sunna and the Islamic Army in Iraq, which have all targeted civilians for abductions and executions. The first two groups have repeatedly boasted about massive car bombs and suicide bombs in mosques, markets, bus stations and other civilian areas. Such acts are war crimes and in some cases may constitute crimes against humanity, which are defined as serious crimes committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack against a civilian population.”[6]

Glen Greenwald is interesting, but his rant is at least a year and a half old -and a lot of his “rebuttal” cites to even older information, from back in 2004.

Here’s some other info on foreign fighters in Iraq, including some analysis of captured al Qaida documents from late last year:

http://www.ctc.usma.edu/harmony/pdf/CTCForeignFighter.19.Dec07.pdf

There are obviously native Iraqi insurgents fighting as well - but al Qaida ( Al-Qaeda in Iraq - Wikipedia ) is the most ruthless and carries out the most devastating attacks - particularly those targeting Iraqi civilians. Most of the others seem to be Sunni. Some other main groups are the Islamic State of Iraq ( Islamic State of Iraq - Wikipedia ), the Mujahideen Army ( Mujahideen Army (Iraq) - Wikipedia ), the Islamic Army in Iraq ( Islamic Army in Iraq - Wikipedia ), Ansar al Sunnah ( Jamaat Ansar al-Sunna - Wikipedia ) and others. There are Shia as well - notably the Mahdi Army ( Peace Companies - Wikipedia ), and probably some Iranians. Hell, there are even some Marxists ( Iraqi Armed Revolutionary Resistance - Wikipedia ).

However, if al Quaida kills the most civilians and if al Quaida is largely foreign - both of which are true - there should be some hope of working with the remainder - particularly if they are tied to people who have political power in the Iraqi government. Of course, there’s the possibility too that the remainder groups will devolve into civil war too - the hope is that the national Iraqi military can be trained well enough to be ready to deal with them.

55

[quote]orion wrote:
pat wrote:
orion wrote:
pat wrote:

Quit while your behind.

Am I?

yup. Way.

Is my money used to keep oil prices high and to feed the empire?

If you buy gas you do.

Am I or my relatives in danger of being attacked?

Yup, have you been asleep? You got terrorist cell building up all over europe.

You were the one extolling the virtuous, brave efforts of the suicide bombers targeting and killing civilians, not me. Don’t try some fancy Jedi mind trick to turn it on me. You said it, it’s referable.
Hey it’s a free internet, if you want to celebrate the efforts of suicide bombers go ahead. We’ll like wise feel free to criticize you for it.

I said that they are not cowards, you claim I called them heroes.

I am not responsible for the voices in your head.

Plus, they do not target civilians, they target you and the people upholding your puppet regime.

[/quote]

Here is the latest…

Not a single American.
Damn, they missed.

56

I am sticking with the peyote defense for Oreo. He must be in the fucking spirit world.

Either that, or he is lixy’s alter ego.

“Go terrorists!!! Death to the Great Satan!!”

“Can you fill it up with Super Unleaded, please?”

57

[quote]pat wrote:
…

Here is the latest…

Not a single American.
Damn, they missed.
[/quote]

But it was “near” a miltary check point so that counts in the statistics as an attack on the military.

58

On the development of the Iraqi Security Forces, here’s the latest from Michael Yon:

http://michaelyon-online.com/wp/rubs-dinner-with-general-dubik.htm

59

Lixy, YOUR the fucking coward. Strap up son.

60

The US should call his bluff. There are only a few refineries that are able to refine Venezualan heavy crude and most if not all of them are in the US.

The reason why Venezualan oil is cheap is because it costs more to refine.

Chavez’ threats are hollow.