I have been asking quite a ew questions on here and got some interesting answers however i haven’t actually put any thing in to practise as yet because i was told pick a program and build a good solid base before changing programs.
I did a couple of cycles of Wendlers 531 BBB but think i made a few mistakes when following the guidelines and didn’t make any progress, for the last 6 months i have been following a Brooks Kubik style 5x5 program based on linear progression and have made some gains.
Have i done the program long enough to have given myself a reasonable base to be able to make a few changes or should i continue what i’m doing for another cycle or two ?
For the first year or year-and-a-half, expext some kind of progress on a weekly basis.
The year after that or so, monthly progress.
After that… Be happy about every PR but don’t chase them like a maniac.
If you you continue to make appropriate progress for your training age, keep doing what you are doing. If not, change something. However, most people with less than a year of experience won’t know how to efficiently modify things…
I am curious why you need to make changes if you are getting gains from your current program. Wouldn’t you only need to change a program when it’s not working?
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
I am curious why you need to make changes if you are getting gains from your current program. Wouldn’t you only need to change a program when it’s not working?[/quote]
Originally i wanted to follow a Doug Hepburn Style program but was advised to build a base first which is what i’m doing.
The changes that i want to make are quite subtle changes really as in once i’m unable to complete my 3 working sets of 5 i would like to change the rep format by going to Doug Hepburn’s A Routine" - Using Singles, start with 4 total and build up one rep per workout until you hit 10, then you add a little more weight and start over these would be followed possibly with a couple of back off sets for the big 3 Squats, Deads and Bench.
Once i come to a halt i would return to my 5x5 once again untill i couldn’t complete the 3 work sets etc.
I would still most likely stick with training 3 times a week and would still use the same exercises, so it would be more of a continuation really.
Doing just a couple cycles of any program and jumping ship will do you no good. I made no progress with Wendler 531 until my 3rd cycle, and have been hitting great PR’s every cycle through now number 7. I am also not a beginner, so progress comes slow, but as an example my 6 rep max on bench has gone from 265 before Wendler to 290 now with a body weight sub-150 lb. Also, unless you are training for an upcoming meet, don’t focus on heavy singles, just hit rep PR’s.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Doing just a couple cycles of any program and jumping ship will do you no good. I made no progress with Wendler 531 until my 3rd cycle, and have been hitting great PR’s every cycle through now number 7. I am also not a beginner, so progress comes slow, but as an example my 6 rep max on bench has gone from 265 before Wendler to 290 now with a body weight sub-150 lb. Also, unless you are training for an upcoming meet, don’t focus on heavy singles, just hit rep PR’s.[/quote]
As I said I think I may not have followed the Wendler program correctly and probably pushed to hard rather than holding a rep or two back, however by swapping programs I was able to squat 2 x my bodyweight for 1 rep and deadlift 2.5 x my bodyweight for 1 rep whilst adding 5kgs to my 1 rep max in the bench and all after 1 cycle so it wasn’t all bad.
Since then I have got Wendlers beyond 531 which does go in to much more detail so even a fool like me should be able to understand it
I actually like doing heavy singles hence my interest in Doug Hepburns training plus I believe the only way to know your 1 rep max is to actually try it every now and again.
Thanks for your input its appreciated and Wendler definitely knows his stuff the fault wasn’t with the program it was with me.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Doing just a couple cycles of any program and jumping ship will do you no good. I made no progress with Wendler 531 until my 3rd cycle, and have been hitting great PR’s every cycle through now number 7. I am also not a beginner, so progress comes slow, but as an example my 6 rep max on bench has gone from 265 before Wendler to 290 now with a body weight sub-150 lb. Also, unless you are training for an upcoming meet, don’t focus on heavy singles, just hit rep PR’s.[/quote]
As I said I think I may not have followed the Wendler program correctly and probably pushed to hard rather than holding a rep or two back, however by swapping programs I was able to squat 2 x my bodyweight for 1 rep and deadlift 2.5 x my bodyweight for 1 rep whilst adding 5kgs to my 1 rep max in the bench and all after 1 cycle so it wasn’t all bad.
Since then I have got Wendlers beyond 531 which does go in to much more detail so even a fool like me should be able to understand it
I actually like doing heavy singles hence my interest in Doug Hepburns training plus I believe the only way to know your 1 rep max is to actually try it every now and again.
Thanks for your input its appreciated and Wendler definitely knows his stuff the fault wasn’t with the program it was with me.[/quote]
I never hold reps in the tank and have made progress through 7 cycles, and I am long past the beginner gains phase.
[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Doing just a couple cycles of any program and jumping ship will do you no good. I made no progress with Wendler 531 until my 3rd cycle, and have been hitting great PR’s every cycle through now number 7. I am also not a beginner, so progress comes slow, but as an example my 6 rep max on bench has gone from 265 before Wendler to 290 now with a body weight sub-150 lb. Also, unless you are training for an upcoming meet, don’t focus on heavy singles, just hit rep PR’s.[/quote]
As I said I think I may not have followed the Wendler program correctly and probably pushed to hard rather than holding a rep or two back, however by swapping programs I was able to squat 2 x my bodyweight for 1 rep and deadlift 2.5 x my bodyweight for 1 rep whilst adding 5kgs to my 1 rep max in the bench and all after 1 cycle so it wasn’t all bad.
Since then I have got Wendlers beyond 531 which does go in to much more detail so even a fool like me should be able to understand it
I actually like doing heavy singles hence my interest in Doug Hepburns training plus I believe the only way to know your 1 rep max is to actually try it every now and again.
Thanks for your input its appreciated and Wendler definitely knows his stuff the fault wasn’t with the program it was with me.[/quote]
I never hold reps in the tank and have made progress through 7 cycles, and I am long past the beginner gains phase.
[/quote]
I don’t really have an answer for that all I know is that I tested my 1 rep max on the bench before I tried the wendler BBB program and after 2 cycles when I tried it again my 1 rep max was exactly the same, I then switched to a program based on linear progression and added 5kg/11 lbs to my 1 rep max.
I know that Wendler knows his stuff so I must have messed up somewhere, I remember asking him about setting rep PR’s and he said when performing them he never goes to failure so I’m a bit confused.
I don’t really have an answer for that all I know is that I tested my 1 rep max on the bench before I tried the wendler BBB program and after 2 cycles when I tried it again my 1 rep max was exactly the same, I then switched to a program based on linear progression and added 5kg/11 lbs to my 1 rep max.
I know that Wendler knows his stuff so I must have messed up somewhere, I remember asking him about setting rep PR’s and he said when performing them he never goes to failure so I’m a bit confused.
[/quote]
I imagine the issue was attempting a 1rm after only 2 months of training. Those should be done sparingly, and afforded much recovery.
I don’t really have an answer for that all I know is that I tested my 1 rep max on the bench before I tried the wendler BBB program and after 2 cycles when I tried it again my 1 rep max was exactly the same, I then switched to a program based on linear progression and added 5kg/11 lbs to my 1 rep max.
I know that Wendler knows his stuff so I must have messed up somewhere, I remember asking him about setting rep PR’s and he said when performing them he never goes to failure so I’m a bit confused.
[/quote]
I imagine the issue was attempting a 1rm after only 2 months of training. Those should be done sparingly, and afforded much recovery.
[/quote]
As I said the problem was with me and not Wendlers program however when I attempted a 1 rep max after my 5x5 program that improved so its hard to figure out.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
As I said the problem was with me and not Wendlers program however when I attempted a 1 rep max after my 5x5 program that improved so its hard to figure out.[/quote]
I honestly don’t think it’s hard to figure out at this point, as I would still say the issue is far too much maxing too frequently.
Is there any reason you feel the need to constantly attempt a new max? I do that maybe once a year, and that’s only in a competition.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
As I said the problem was with me and not Wendlers program however when I attempted a 1 rep max after my 5x5 program that improved so its hard to figure out.[/quote]
I honestly don’t think it’s hard to figure out at this point, as I would still say the issue is far too much maxing too frequently.
Is there any reason you feel the need to constantly attempt a new max? I do that maybe once a year, and that’s only in a competition.
[/quote]
So true. I started lifting consistently again in the summer of 2011, and since then I have maxed twice on bench outside of a comp, Oct 2011 I did 305, and Nov 2012 I did 315. I did four comps in 2013, but my max in all were basically equal to my three rep touch and go max at the time. I have learned to judge progress based on anything but a 1 rep max. My 6 rep max is up 25 lbs since Sept, so I know my 1 rep is up also. Focus on gaining strength, not on maxing.
I know this is the beginners section, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat if your goal is to increase your 1rm on a power lift.
Several fellas in the 035 section frequently run modified bulgarian cycles and work up to a 1rm PR for the cycle on big lifts 5 to 6 days a week. DBealser runs modified bulgarian for bench mostly while, for example, concurrently running something like the Coan/Pillipe deadlift program. gorrillavannilla goes though stints squatting and benching to a daily max 5 or 6 days a week. Both of them are strong as shit.
If you can get through the dark days and avoid injury you can get strong running cycles hitting big singles on big lifts on a daily or near daily basis.
There’s also some pretty good info in this thread.
I’m not necessarily advocating modified bulgarian for the OP but I don’t see the harm in working some big singles into a routine if hitting big singles is his goal.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I know this is the beginners section, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat if your goal is to increase your 1rm on a power lift.
Several fellas in the 035 section frequently run modified bulgarian cycles and work up to a 1rm PR for the cycle on big lifts 5 to 6 days a week. DBealser runs modified bulgarian for bench mostly while, for example, concurrently running something like the Coan/Pillipe deadlift program. gorrillavannilla goes though stints squatting and benching to a daily max 5 or 6 days a week. Both of them are strong as shit.
If you can get through the dark days and avoid injury you can get strong running cycles hitting big singles on big lifts on a daily or near daily basis.
There’s also some pretty good info in this thread.
I’m not necessarily advocating modified bulgarian for the OP but I don’t see the harm in working some big singles into a routine if hitting big singles is his goal.
[/quote]
I thought the point of working up to the singles in a bulgarian program was for training rather than testing though. Am I mistaken?
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
I know this is the beginners section, but there’s more than one way to skin a cat if your goal is to increase your 1rm on a power lift.
Several fellas in the 035 section frequently run modified bulgarian cycles and work up to a 1rm PR for the cycle on big lifts 5 to 6 days a week. DBealser runs modified bulgarian for bench mostly while, for example, concurrently running something like the Coan/Pillipe deadlift program. gorrillavannilla goes though stints squatting and benching to a daily max 5 or 6 days a week. Both of them are strong as shit.
If you can get through the dark days and avoid injury you can get strong running cycles hitting big singles on big lifts on a daily or near daily basis.
There’s also some pretty good info in this thread.
I’m not necessarily advocating modified bulgarian for the OP but I don’t see the harm in working some big singles into a routine if hitting big singles is his goal.
[/quote]
I thought the point of working up to the singles in a bulgarian program was for training rather than testing though. Am I mistaken?
[/quote]
Yes, it is the training. Work up to a big single, try and get a training PR, then a few back-off sets.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Yes, it is the training. Work up to a big single, try and get a training PR, then a few back-off sets.
[/quote]
I think there is a lot of benefit to that. I was speaking more toward maxing in my previous post, pursuing a new PR rather than a training one. The biggest difference I find is the heightened emotional state involved in the former compared to the latter, and the negative impact it has on recovery. I think heavy singles and training PRs can be hit with a good amount of frequency, but find that maxes are best performed infrequently.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Yes, it is the training. Work up to a big single, try and get a training PR, then a few back-off sets.
[/quote]
I think there is a lot of benefit to that. I was speaking more toward maxing in my previous post, pursuing a new PR rather than a training one. The biggest difference I find is the heightened emotional state involved in the former compared to the latter, and the negative impact it has on recovery. I think heavy singles and training PRs can be hit with a good amount of frequency, but find that maxes are best performed infrequently.[/quote]
Yes, the “heightened state” is the kicker. The training PR is supposed the become matter-of-fact without a lot of mental prep and true psych-up meet lifts are saved for the meet. I think one of the benefits of the bulgarian method is simply getting used to regularly handling heavy weight. I ran a 45 day cycle and it changed my training perspective a bit. I didn’t do what I needed to pre-hab wise and tweaked something, but I’m going to run another cycle here soon and try and be a little smarter with prep.
[quote]jjackkrash wrote:
Yes, the “heightened state” is the kicker. The training PR is supposed the become matter-of-fact without a lot of mental prep and true psych-up meet lifts are saved for the meet. I think one of the benefits of the bulgarian method is simply getting used to regularly handling heavy weight. I ran a 45 day cycle and it changed my training perspective a bit. I didn’t do what I needed to pre-hab wise and tweaked something, but I’m going to run another cycle here soon and try and be a little smarter with prep. [/quote]
I hear ya. Learning how to lift heavy without making it a “do or die” attempt really turned my training around. I’m starting to really grasp the difference between building and demonstrating strength.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
As I said the problem was with me and not Wendlers program however when I attempted a 1 rep max after my 5x5 program that improved so its hard to figure out.[/quote]
I honestly don’t think it’s hard to figure out at this point, as I would still say the issue is far too much maxing too frequently.
Is there any reason you feel the need to constantly attempt a new max? I do that maybe once a year, and that’s only in a competition.
[/quote]
There is a reason behind it, my goal is to get a 2 x bodyweight squat, a 2.5 x bodyweight deadlift and a 1.5 x bodyweight bench press having achieved the squat and deadlift if I can get the bench press I would have achieved my ultimate goal
jjackkrash thanks for the links its much appreciated i’ll be sure to check them out.
