Thx bro. Appreciate it!
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I think the point that’s trying to be made here is that you’re not doing anything wrong, but that the 400lb mutants are obviously doing something right to be… 400lb mutants. Is it the excess protein? The grams of gear they take daily? The fact that they do nothing but eat, train, sleep and inject their bodies with steroids for years on end? All of the above combined? The problem is that we can’t know what are the ratios of contribution of the above mentioned factors to their ‘mutantism’. Though we could probably make fairly accurate educated guesses. For what it’s worth I don’t think it’s the extreme excess of protein either. I think it’s the general excess of calorie intake combined with massive amounts of steroids.
Edit:
Basically what I’m getting at is that if they took 2g of test/wk a gram of tren/wk and a gram of deca/wk with a handful of dianabol/day and ate 10000 calories worth of pizza dough with any sort of effective training they would likely be the same 400lb mutants as if they were consuming 5lb of ground beef per day.
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I think most people who say this, are not in a position to tell the elites that they’re doing it wrong - and never will be.
To summarize…
Mutants are they way they are because they either
a) are destined to be hyooge
b) go against what the mainstream tells them to do
will we ever know which one is true? No, because we all eat 1xBW Protein and trust the Science™
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I’ve done some reading up on the ultra high protein, looking at what the big names in bodybuilding do (Cbum at ~280 g/day was the lowest, open guys usually at least 350 g/day), as well as ask some of my most developed friends on what they do (250-280 g/day was consistent).
I will try higher protein for a bit here to see for myself if it works. I will be using protein powders to make this feasible for me. I’d probably be classified as a low protein eater for a lifter, but significantly higher than a non-lifter. I am not going to go straight to the ultra high levels, but I am thinking increasing 50% would be noticeable in 6 months. I’d think the gains one would get from upping protein would be diminishing as protein increases. Ex if one is only eating 0.5 g/lb, that going to 1 g/lb would increase gains a lot more than going from 1.5 g/lb to 2 g/lb. That doesn’t mean 2 g/lb isn’t better than 1.5 g/lb. Just that we should expect diminishing returns, and if there is truth to the ultra high protein claims, my test of increasing by 50% over 6 months should be a good test. If that works, I’ll up it more.
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My line of thinking is that if you increase it by 50% you may receive some sort of benefit, likely modest and would maybe not know if your extra gains were from the increase in protein or some other variable that changed and that you may or may not be aware of.
On the other hand, and what I would do if doing this experiment, is increase protein by 100% and see just how significant the gains would be and any extra gains would more than likely be contributed to the large increase in protein intake since that would be the biggest variable to change in the equation.
Then you could steadily lower protein intake until you begin to stall in whatever parameters or standards you decide to measure progress by and you would know what would then be the minimum effective amount to consume.
At least that’s my twisted logic that I would apply in this experiment.
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I have tried to increase protein. No noticable changes. But i would like to hear abt your experience.
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It is always nice to be able to change only one variable at a time. I would be hoping that I could see “cause and effect” fairly soon, but muscle building is a tough one to notice unless you are greatly lacking in protein.
I always found that I was a poor testing sample. I never felt that I had the luxury to take the time to run a meaningful test. I called my approach: The Shotgun Approach. I tried everything, and never knew what caused the benefit.
Approaching this now (if I were growing age), I might try a 25% increase in protein increase and do nothing else (if I could resist shotgunning everything that might help). Hopefully I would notice a change.
But in reality, I am more apt to follow what I thought the best competitors were doing. They are my guinea pigs. Something worked for them, I’ll do likewise.
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I’ve been pretty static on my physique (not gaining much muscle for the last couple years). I’ve been cutting lately and just haven’t been eating that much. I think as of recently I’ve only really been getting like 90 -130 g/day of protein. I’d say typically at maintenance I am more like 120-160 g/day.
I justified this low protein by thinking it was probably a minor detail in the grand scheme. I may be wrong about it though.
I’d say this is perhaps where I fit:
If the 1.5 to 2X per g/lb recommendation is really good, then I would be greatly lacking in protein, and the 50% increase should be noticeable in 6 months.
Well if it works you will know haha. I think there is some potential for me, just because I’ve not been at the 1 g/day of protein. Long time average is more like 140 g/day.
1g/lb BW is ideal for natties. Enhanced folks simply have better protein synthesis 24/7 and can therefore utilize more protein. @hankthetank89 believes this to be caused by better absoption of protein eaten, and i believe this to be caused by better synthesis within the bodies’ cells (either could be correct, the end result is the same).
I averaged 1g/lb in the last year or so and did very well. I was somewhat high protein before, but definitely not 1g/lb religiously.
Moving north of that to say 1.5g/lb is likely an adequate/advantageous place for those with supraphysiological T levels, but for those on a shitload of gear, id be willing to be 2g/lb makes more sense.
^This is all hypothesis based on anecdotal information given to us by the mutants.
Keeping in mind that most of these mutants are also using insulin and HGH heavily to leverage size, in combination with crazy high gear usage - i think 2g/lb makes a good bit of sense in their shoes.
If you’re not going through grams of gear weekly, i think 1g-1.5g/lb would absolutely present you with noticeable progress. BUT as @rusty_hammer pointed out, you wouldn’t necessarily know if it was due to protein or other factors.
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I am hoping that since my protein was fairly low, that physique differences will be noticeable. Either leaner, more muscular or both. I tend to lose muscle size when cutting. Maybe that will be less drastic as I finish the second half of my cut. Maybe when I start eating more, the muscle comes back with less fat.
In the past it seems cutting and bulking have made me more or less just a smaller or larger version of myself (proportions seem to stay a lot the same). I am hoping to have the muscle size I have when bulking with the leanness I have when cutting.
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It has always been my belief that a person can only digest 50 grams of protein in any one sitting. I always tried to eat 50 grams of protein per meal (believing that eating more would be wasted). If I wanted to add more protein, I had to add another meal.
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I agree in part. I wouldn’t say it is wasted just because it isn’t used to build muscle tissue. It could be used to repair organs (including skin), or make enzymes and hormones, or even used as energy. I’d think having a surplus occasionally would be okay as it would let you use more of your next protein intake for muscle building instead of those other things. I don’t know for sure though.
It wasn’t my belief that only 50 grams of protein can be digested to be used to build and repair skeletal muscle. I was my belief that only 50 grams of protein can be digested for all bodily purposes.
And you know that “building muscle” is last in line when the digested protein is being distributed.
I guess I don’t know what to think on it. It seemed when the meal timing stuff was really popular (both in regards to eating lots of meals, and timing protein around a workout), so was the limiting protein to X amount because it can’t be used thing. I see those things as related. Much of the former has been mostly debunked (there are grains of truth as well).
FWIW, I am currently about having roughly 50 grams in my breakfast, lunch will also be around that amount, I am having a protein shake when I get home from work or the gym which is 30 grams, then dinner which will be a bit inconsistent but I pretty much always have the main item be an animal protein (I’d say dinner will be between 40 and 60 grams of protein).
If you would just chug egg whites out of the carton, you’ll hit your goal easy.
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I’ve been thinking about buying egg whites actually. Makes protein goals a lot easier. Same with protein powder.
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My advice is go with casein. It’s roughly 2x cheaper than whey and takes longer to digest, meaning it doesn’t just come out the other side instantly. And although it is digested more slowly, meaning you can space it out over longer periods, it is stated in a study that:
Acute ingestion of both whey and Casein protein after exercise resulted in similar increases in muscle protein net balance, resulting in net muscle protein synthesis despite different patterns of blood amino acid responses.
So the whole “whey is better for post-workout because it gets to the muscles quicker” is bullocks. And if it does, the difference is insignificant compared to the other benefits casein provides.
However, casein in a shake is like drinking sand. I use it to make quick microwave puddings and gorge on it for either breakfast or dinner. Sometimes both.
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