There are literally dozens of studies that support the claim that AAS use increase protein synthesis.
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They do. Just like tribulus increases testosterone. But HOW MUCH? If something increases in a lab by 5% does it matter? Do you need to eat TWICE the protein for some slight increase? Nope. Thats the problem with reading only the topic of the studies. What we should look for is - HOW MUCH? The actual numbers. Because for science paper, “increase” is 0,01% also.
I think everyone knows who Layne Norton is. He does the math. The difference is like 20 grams a day, not 200 
great question.
Every massive guy I know eats (or aims for) 2xlb BW protein daily. Do we think that science is correct on this one, or that maybe these guys have a leg up on the nerds?
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Ok that makes total sense. I work and love a very active lifestyle. I take a first lunch and first dinner to work with me but guess ima have to add more to it if I wanna really grow. Glad to see u did close to the same. I’ve got bout 10 weeks of eq left and will probably just keep running it with th NPP then. Gonna donate next week too. Thx
Start at 4:37
Look at the Layne vid. He also does the math. Its simple stuff. Really. Just watch it.
You should either know the kcal so you can increase them if necessary or just go by the scale. Id say you wanna gain 1lb every week or you are missing gains or at least you cant complain that you dont gain enough.
Worst case scenario you get the size and also some fat. So you’ll just stop the bulk and cut for 4 weeks and be done with it.
Its much faster to bulk at 100% capacity and to gain some fat and then just lose it, than it is to bulk at 10-50% capacity and remain lean because you can always cut much faster than it takes to build actual tissue.
You just cant know how much the drug is working unless you also put on some fat. Id say, stick to what you are doing, adjust the kcals, gain a pound a week for 8-10 weeks, and then we could see if you need deca.
Now if you will just add deca now and then also add food you will see the improvement and think its deca even tho it might just be food.
No rush to add new drugs. You can ALWAYS add the drugs or up the dose. The real beauty is when you dont need to.
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IDK, I go with science here. Massive dudes have claimed less than 1X, 1X, 1.5X, 2X for protein intake. I think it matters, but not much after 0.8 g/lb.
It also gets inconvenient quickly past about 1X. 2X grams/lb would be tough to live with for me (expensive too).
These type of rules can be useful, but also need nuance. For example, I wouldn’t encourage a 300 lb lifter at 40% bodyfat to eat 1 g/lb. I would recommend it to a 200 lb lifter at 10% bodyfat.
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Yea, i think that the “big guys” who still preach those idiotic numbers of protein are still living in the past. Some 15 years ago, protein was the thing. Everyone pushed big protein numbers and they also sold protein powders.
Many people just stick to what they know and dont really follow anything new. Just like doing lat pulldowns behind the neck, drinking raw eggs or believing in anabolic window.
Also as the guys in the vids i posted, the difference between a natty or someone who gains 1 pound of muscle a week(impossible anyways) is like 20g of protein a day. So you take your 200, up it to 220 and you are ready to gain 50lbs of tissue a year.
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I don’t think any of the massive dudes claim more than 2xBW, but I think if you looked at the diet of almost every mutant, they are north of 1.5g/lb. I will trust the advice of someone who I want to look like before trusting the advice of a scientist whose sample pool consisted of rats everyday.
Agree, I think there is a standard cutoff for BF% when it’s better to just use assumed LBM. BUT I would also argue that someone whose 40% BF might do significantly better if they slam down a shitload of protein, because you know they’re going to lose weight that way. Maybe the advice stands on it’s own without caveat after all 
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He prefaced his video saying “I don’t know anything about steroids but I can do math”, then proceeded to pull numbers out of his asshole. Sorry dude, I’m gonna need more information than “because I said so”.
I get that he’s got a reputation, but again I’m going to reference the anectodal experience that every single huge dude parrots - where they eat a fuckload of protein.
“TRT” Gregg is being a Douchette as usual here. He’s acting like protein eaten = protein going to muscle, which clearly is not the case for anyone.
It’s fine if we don’t agree here, I’m going to trust the advice of those who I want to look like and keep doing what I’m doing. I just think that referencing one bro doctor after another trying to act like they know more than the people who have 70lbs LBM more than them, is ridiculous and self-serving. The audience who watches them will never look like the people they’re trying to prove wrong, so they will never have to reckon with being called out.
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nice build. ht, wt, age?
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180cm, 88kg, 42yo.
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Would have never guessed that without the face. Nice work. Lean and good aesthetics.
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It does seem the majority of “professionals” don’t think the ultra high protein is necessary. Usually with two caveats. One that it likely won’t hurt anything, and the second being it may be beneficial during a cut.
I just watched a video from Renaissance periodization on it. I generally think of Mike as being a pretty good source. IDK, if you’d watch it, I’d post it.
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I trust his dieting advice quite a bit, but I’m still going to go back to the point where there is insufficient scientific data on the protein intake of mutants and those taking so much gear they’ll soon become mutants.
I advise RPs diet plan as a near one size fits all to dieting… you’ve probably seen me post the same macro recommendations a dozen times. The only time i would stray from these guidelines would be A) if crash cutting or B) in heavy AAS use.
For A - refer to Lyle Macdonald
For B - increase protein to 1.5xBW (which still actually aligns with RP Diet)
Any more than 1.5g/lb BW, you’re too big for me to be giving advice to, and I’m going to be doing what you’re doing. There are folks like this whom I’ve engaged with, and I ask “Why?” with a notebook in hand. The answers they’ve given me are what I’ve parroted here, in this thread.
DoggCrapp has produced more mutants than any other program, and has 0 references to studies or scientific literature. Dante actually posted a danteism a few weeks ago that went on in detail about the issues i see plaguing TNation threads these days. Science is often far behind the mutant community… if i was a betting man, id be betting they’re behind on this one too.
^FWIW there was a conversation in the Darden forum that basically concluded 0.5g/lb BW was optimal for muscle gain… claimed entirely by people who’s max BB bench is the same as one of the dumbbells I use on DB bench (for reps), supported by noodle-armed vegan poindexter fucks wearing lab coats.
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he is selling a product to average gym goers. the messaging and method can’t be what would be viewed as extreme.
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I am totally with @hankthetank89 on your diet. Maybe a little harsher.
IMO, you are wasting much of the AAS you are taking.
They call it bodyBUILDING for a good reason. Your prime objective is to build more muscle. You can clearly get lean, but why bother and have no more muscle than you have. And you have 6’ 2" of frame to put it on. It takes a lot of muscle for that to look impressive.
Adjust your diet and feed the beast!
I was watching a podcast completely unrelated to this topic but it included two scientists with their own laboratories (Stanford and Harvard) where they categorized the importance and relevance of their findings and the hierarchy of evidence in the following order of significance:
- Expert opinion/case studies
- Cohort studies
- Prospective observational data
- Randomized trials
- N of 1 trial/experiment where you service your own control
So, contrary to popular opinion, including my own, the randomized, double blind placebo trials are not quite the gold standard as most people believe and there is definitely something to the anecdotal claims that @Andrewgen_Receptors is making when he is referring to the 400lb meatheads consuming enormous amounts of protein that seemingly works for their subjective purposes.
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People who are at the elite level most times are there in spite of what they do, not because of what they do.
Have you seen Branch Warren train? If he werent so big, he would be a gym meme. Ronnie Coleman supposedly was asked to do a bodybuilding show without even knowing what bodybuilding is.
In the MMA community i live in, the best fighters often are the most stupid trainers. They usually start a lesson with “this is what i do” but when asked : “what if we’d switch the leg there?” the answer is a dumb face and : “well…yea, you can do it like that also if you want, but this is how i do it”. Basically they are good at something and they just do what they do. With no idea why and how.
I truly believe its the same in other sports. Someone told the guy to eat 300g of protein and he does. He would be same size on 200g, but since he never tried, he doesnt know.
I know i was living the intermittent fasting life for years and most i had was 1-2 meals a day with moderate amount of meat in. Id say 80-100 grams of protein if we count the one from pasta and bread also. I was very lean 220. I lived like that for years.
Its not like my muscles fell off. I have posted pics of that time, i believe i carried around more muscle than most people everywhere anyways.
But i do know where the high numbers are comming from. Before i started fasting i was doing the 8 meals a day thing. And when i first skipped breakfast i tought my muscle will just fall off the next day.
The problem with this is that mostly the ones who eat lots of protein have not tried to do a month with less.
Idk, i tried going from 200g to 300g, nothing changed besides how much i spent on food. I did go from 220lbs to 260lbs and cut down to 245lbs on 200-220g of protein.
Idk maybe thats why im not 300lbs? If id bump it up a bit, would i blow up in 3-6 months? I really think NOPE.
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