To clarify: I don’t think it’s wussier, just different. I would struggle to get results out of a John Meadows program for similar reasons, it just doesn’t click for me.
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I joked with my use of “wussy”, but I think the point is valid: different strokes for different folks.
I do still think I see more universal results across 5/3/1 users than any other author.
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I think a BIG part of this is that Jim used 5/3/1 to make programming accessible to the common man.
A program is QUITE different from a workout or a routine. It builds to something, whereas the latter is just something you do on that given day.
Lots of trainees will spend DECADES just doing routines and wondering why they aren’t growing. Initially, everything works, but eventually it stops, and some sort of logic or nuance is needed to promote growth again. Randomly trying different routines can accidentally cause success to happen on occasion, but having a plan and executing it works better.
Jim re-skinned accumulation, intensification, peaking, off-season and in-season work to something even non-athletes could grasp. It’s nothing revolutionary, no, but nothing in lifting is. Jim simply came up with a way to explain it so that it was simple to apply.
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This is what I was fumbling around, trying to say above.
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I kind of agree, although (and whilst my experience is limited) I find that phasing in and out of each seems to have given me the best progress so far in terms of size and strength. Of course, it’s probably not optimal for both but hopefully meets somewhere in the middle. My makeshift adjust as I go along “program” has me drifting through 5-6 reps working up to sets of 2 for and then going back to 5-6 with a higher starting weight. Then on a lighter day i’ll go from 3x8 and slowly work myself up to 4x10-12 and then go back down to 8. With supplementals/accessories, i’ll keep going until it gets too hard to progress and switch to a completely different rep range or a different but very similar exercise and stay there for a month or so before switching back. There’s nothing long-term in place like 5/3/1 but it allows me to change things up.
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With the wussy comment, what exactly do you mean? For me 5/3/1 seems like it’s less wussy and much more methodic. Pushing so far away from your max for much of the cycle and just doing one heavy set right now looks like it would be a cakewalk compared to the percentages i put up in most of my sets. Isn’t it being sub-maximal the big selling point as it allows you to progress over a longer period? If the comment is more based on the conditioning side of it then I’m sorry for my ignorance as i have no right to be talking about that due to never running it.
I’m sure it’s popularity is put down to simplifying and taking the guess work out. This accessibility makes it a god send for potentially unlimited millions.
I’ve seen some people suggest that 5/3/1 isn’t even a program though and it should be seen as a framework to build your own needs into. All them templates being suggestions built around that framework. I wonder if there’s much value in taking many of the principles and working them into your own programming and continued learning. I guess some might say even then you’re just needlessly moving away from something that we already knows works.
5/3/1 isn’t a program; it’s a programming method.
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5/3/1 works. Understand it and follow it. Emphasis on the sequence. UNDERSTAND before following it. Don’t follow it blindly. If you just follow it blindly, then you’ll never get past your qualms about it.
You’ll make progress on it if you give it time. That’s for sure.
With the wussy comment, what exactly do you mean?
I was picking on myself because I like the bodybuilding programs
Done a ton more research and looking forward to getting started after my next deload in 3-4 weeks.
I’m starting to wonder how I got so far having 2 intense sessions a week on each main lift. As touched upon in my original post, I was doing something like this for pressing work (keep in mind i’d pair Squat/Bench together, Deadlift/OHP together… Monday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday. Also i never used percentages but this is how close to my max i’d estimate i was)
Monday
Bench 5x2 95-97% or 4x5 at 90%
Wednesday
OHP 4x4 85-90%
Friday
Bench 3x8-10 at 80-85% or 4x8-12 of 75-80%
Saturday
OHP 3-4x8 at ~70%
All these sets i’d be going close to failure but not quite (although it would happen occasionally). I’d try to add weight, a rep, or a set every week.
Be blunt. How AWFUL does that look!?
I actually did 5x5 @ 80% on bench for my most recent “lighter” day and it felt way too easy, i left so much in the tank on every set (although my lack of discipline had me do 7 on the last set). I do feel way better recovered and fuller of energy today though. I’m going to do that until my deload and i’m wondering how much stronger i’ll feel on the heavier days even though I did less on my second day.
Why postpone feeling way better and more recovered by several weeks?
Because I’d rather start it 100% fresh and I’m not due a deload yet. Not just that but I’m intrigued how applying some of the things I’ve learnt to my own dog shit programming will make much of a change. I’m still doing 5 main working sets but 5/3/1 will just have me doing just 3 (arguably one) which I want to transition into rather than just jump into straight away.
One question I do have though is doing the supplemental stuff on a second day rather than all in the same session and how it impacts results?
I see Jim said ypu should all do it on the same day doing 5/3/1 and then supplemental straight after. This will obviously be more difficult but I don’t think others in the gym would take too kindly for me hogging the racks/bench for so long. It’s quite a small gym.
That sounds pretty good man. Nice job coming up with that.
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I post this every time as I went from SS to this and it worked a treat years ago. And I was less beat up. 1.1 + 1.2 is great. 1.3 I overdid it but I’d reached my goals by then.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.t-nation.com/workouts/beyond-5-3-1-program-1-1/amp/
Supplemental on different days. Weight vest walking programmed.
Supplemental is fine on other days lots of 531 does that.
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Am I parsing that article right? 8 Warm-up sets?
The article I linked? I don’t think it’s 8 warm up sets. The formatting is not great on phone.
It’s 531 sets for one exercise, then 5x5 at 75% for another.
The 5x5 seems light but the 60 second rest seems to work well as the fatigue builds.
Sounds very similar to the 5x5 @ 80% I’m trying. Resting for about 3mins though.
Which out of Beyond or Forever would be the most useful to me?
I know maybe i’m being stupid but for the rest of this cycle for my own program i’m going to push quite hard and then hit the proper 5/3/1s after my deload.
5x5, 5x3, 5x1-2 and going for PRs on the last sets
with 5x5 80% on the different day.
This is still way less intensity than i was training at before but i do understand why i still need to go way lower.
I think how i want to do 531 is jump from 5x5 BBB to 5x10 BBB each cycle.
Why not get both?
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