Couldn’t agree more. Many men jump on TRT too soon.
Also very few doctors are checking the appropriate hormones and don’t dig deep enough to find out why testosterone is low. All it takes is a hormone or two to affect testosterone.
Allopregnanolone stimulates Gaba which also stimulates the sleeping hormone in the brain, sleep affects testosterone. When I taper off clonazepam (after 30 yrs) my sleep (Gaba) was disrupted and testosterone affected.
Yes, but theoretically once sleep cycle is back to normal… testosterone will revert to normal too
Benzodiazepines aren’t like opiates in which they suppress the fuck out of LH/FSH… the only evidence to suggest they suppress T is within rodent models, in vitro benzodiazepines appear to increase intratesticular testosterone secretion… finally there is one study that exists finding significantly increased plasma androgen concentrations in men using benzodiazepines
If you were morbidly overweight when coming off the benzodiazepines, lived a sedentary lifestyle and/or had a genetic predisposition those are probably the priming factors aside from prolonged sleep deprivation
In vitro diazepam/alazopram appears to block CRH release, of which mediated ACTH release, of which (within normality/non significant realms) would have a beneficial impact on T production. Excess cortisol goes hand in hand with inducing low T
My sleep never went back to normal because my testosterone was <100, low testosterone causes poor sleep and poor sleep causes low testosterone and the low testosterone caused diabetes.
Testosterone effects my cortisol big time and cortisol was above midrange when testosterone was low. I wasn’t overweight prior to coming off the medicine and had been snorkeling 3-4 days a week and was very active and had rock had erections on demand and was hypersexual as usual.
I read that and wonder if the mechanism in clonazepam that increases testosterone if somehow permanently broke something when I withdrew the medicine.
True, but if this were the case all teenagers who go on prolonged nights out would have terrible issues sleeping as T plummets during a hardcore night out/repeated nights out… this isn’t the case (not referring just to recreational drug use, I’m talking about kids in general who stay up all day, all night for days on end). Sleep disturbance is a common facet of severe hypogonadism. Excess cortisol can screw with sleep patterns (increase time spent within lighter stages fo sleep etc)… but insomnia dramatically increases said cortisol.
You can’t blame not being able to sleep entirely on low T… my TT is around 1-200ng/dl right now because I’ve run out of needles, my only option is to reuse needles, wait until more arrive or pop dbol (have bloods soon)… I still sleep…
Nothing permanently broke regarding endocrine functioning when you withdrew from benzodiazepines. However you were in a very tough spot given you were prescribed them for 30 years… what fucking medical professional prescribes a medication reserved for 2-4 week bursts… then keeps a patient on it for 30 years… was there any therapeutic outcome over 30 years? Surely you would’ve noticed cognitive impairment, tolerance development etc…
Really irritates me, said doctor should be more educated regarding the pharmacokinetics of benzodiazepines, how they work and how long they’re appropriate to implement therapeutically
My Tourette Syndrome was annihilated, is no more which used to be very bad. I experienced no cognitive impairment for the short time I was on a 7mg daily protocol. I was told that if I withdrew the medicine, my Tourette Syndrome may return and was told the painful long withdraw would be for nothing if my Tourette Syndrome did return and needed to go back on clonazepam.
I have no regrets coming off that medicine, if that medicine is going to drag me to hell for 10 months coming off, it was absolutely the right thing to do. I went through puberty on that medicine and wonder what changes occurred as a result of being on it.
2 Likes
So it didn’t come back? That’s a pretty good outcome actually… withdrawl or not… But I still disagree with the notion of chronic benzodiazepine use for 30 years straight barring perhaps the most extreme circumstances.
There are other medications that affect dopamine with less dependence/addiction potential. However 30 years ago, the medical community was (understandably) more old school, so perhaps that was the go to management tactic
Either way, I’m really sorry you had to go through Benzo withdrawal like that… I’ve heard stories (particularly from prior/recovering drug addicts) regarding how terrible benzodiazepine addiction is (and I’ve looked at the literature)… you didn’t deserve to go through that (at least I assume so).
Were you weaned off with the monitoring of a doc or did you go cold turkey (dangerous, can result in potentially lethal seizures)
My new doctors said I want you off this medicine and and at some point am going to refuse another prescription and had a stack of papers showing why I should get the hell off it. I read it and started tapering immediately.
I weaned off over a 10 month period, I had to get a pill cutter and go slow. If I had quit cold turkey I’m certain I would have died. The palpitations lasted for months and thought my heart was going to be damaged.
What’s sad is some people are forced back on their benzos because the side effects of coming off are unbearable. I didn’t get any help from doctors getting off that medicine, all they said was to go back on, no thank you. The worse I felt, the more I wanted off that medicine.
2 Likes
This is legitimate neglect, dropping benzodiazepines without adequate monitering/care from a medical professional is incredibly dangerous and leads to a high rate of relapse. Good on you for persisting through the hells of withdrawal though… esp benzodiazepine withdrawal
One of the few drugs that can legitimately kill from withdrawal (alcohol, GHB etc come to mind)
That prolactin isn’t crazy by any means but keep an eye on it.
You can get generic Cialis overseas easily too. Even my GP said “if it works fine, keep buying that, it’s way cheaper”
Ha ha, thanks for getting this thread back on track.
I was seriously thinking of doing that until I found how cheap it was with Goodrx. Getting alternative ways of getting money over there always held me back. No way in hell would I give them my personal credit card and didn’t want to deal with bitcoin or other alternative ways to get them money.
Yeah it’s a pain but not too terrible… a little scary sending via bitcoin because there’s exactly jack shit you can do to get the money back if they screw you… but I’ve done it before without any issues. And a lot of places give you a discount for paying that way. And I’d rather do that than give any site like that my credit card info so it seemed like a reasonable risk
But obviously if you can get it for a decent price on GoodRX then there’s no point in bothering with anything else
1 Like
2.5 weeks with removing HCG and upping T to 30ml (staying with 3x/week). Libido and function returning.
Removing HCG resulted in no loss of positive vibes, testicle size. It should be noted that even on it I lost testicle size. I don’t care it was just a clue of “maybe this is doing something it should be”
I’m hesitant to stay I’ve actually regained testicle size.
1 Like
HCG was nothing but trouble for me. Not to mention, when I used to take modafinil on top of it, my BP would go absolutely soaring. On my birthday, my friends wouldn’t even let me leave my apartment until things leveled off.
I’ve considered trying it again for the long term, but only once I get everything else right where I want it.
Glad to hear removing it helped you out too.