T Nation

3 Month Update: Great, Except Boners

Here’s the 3 months check up from Defy. (Who are total health care system assassins. Awesome.) I’ll post my first bloodwork numbers then the follow up bumbers after. After the inittial test I was put on 50 mg/week cyp, three times a week subcu. 300 iu/week of HCG 3/week. Iodine/selenium supp. 12.5 mg Ibutamoren. 34 years old, athletic and consistantly good diet/sleep habits.

Testosterone, Serum 471 ng/dl 264-916 --> 1251
Free 8 pg/ml 8.7-25 --> 27.4
DHT 54 ng/dl --> 89
T4 Free 1.42 ngl .8-1.77 -->1.54
DHEA 391 ug/dl 138-475 -->420
TSH .775 uIU/ml .45-4.5 -->.812
LH 6.1 mIU 1.7-8.6 --> not tested
Prolactin 11.6 ng/mL 4.0-15.2 —>16
IGF 1 144 ng/nL 88-246 —> 199
Revers T3 21.5 ng/dL 9.2-24.1 —> 21.8
Estradiol 23.6 pg/mL 8.0-35.9 —>43.9
SHBG 48.7 nmol/L 16 - 55.9 —>31.7

So the first three months were awesome. Especially cognitively. Major improvement. Hurray!

In the last month I started having difficulty climaxing, which has progressed to having trouble with erections despite the good bloodwork numbers. Also am moodier, noticebly less of those yummy feels.

I told my Doc and she backed me off from 25 units 3x week to 22 3x week. I wouldn’t think that was enough to change how I feel but I feel worse physcially/cognitively and that hasn’t helped sexual function. I told her this and she’s moved me back to the original dose.

Thoughts?

Some guys have trouble climaxing with estrogen is the 40’s, but this is the tradeoff to using HCG ->estrogen. You could try decreasing the HCG dosage, this will decrease estrogen without effecting testosterone to any large degree.

Interesting. Although I had read people saying that you dont want to squash estradiol since you need it for sexual function I hadn’t see anything about what that actually means.

I’ll back off the HCG to 20 iu’s 2x for a couple weeks. I did get some atrophy even with the higher dose, but alas…

Thanks man! Happy new year.

It’s true estrogen is needed for sexual function, but too little or too much can have negetive consequences. Now some guys can get away with very high estrogen without consequences.

Happy New Year.

The experimenting becomes!

In what situation does cialis/viagra use become something to try? Reading through threads on it now. Seems pricey.

I was quoted $153 for 90 count Cialis from my provider, which isn’t bad, but patents are about to expire. If anything is predictable I will over respond to Cialis just like I I over-respond to everything else and can stretch it to last longer.

You haven’t really spent enough time optimising your TRT protocol and if you start Cialis now you may never actually dial in your erections and one day you could stop Cialis and lose some erectile function and you’ll be right back where you started.

You may never dial in using HCG.

hims online had quoted 240/month for it.

Sounds like you’re advocating no HCG? That could be a helpful opinion because I’ve really only read people feeling good with it.

I’m not in a siutaiton to have kids but I want them in the future, Defy reassured me they can get restarted again, guess its just scary!

Try 2.5 mg first time round… don’t want to end up with priapism… not fun… not that I’d know

(I’ve acquired priapism on an aeroplane flight, very attractive woman was sitting next to me, got an erection that wouldn’t go away from LA to NY, extremely, EXTREMELY painful… couldn’t seek medical attention for obvious reasons (on a plane), but WOW… I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy)

GoodRX. In uS. You can get cheap with prescription at a pharmacy. 90 5mg for $35 at stop and shop. Can’t beat that. There are generics now.

No Shame in maintaining a good working dick. I take 5 mg Cialis daily. Am 43. Helps with not just erections

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Can confirm, it’s not fun. It’s a long story, but I had to have the blood drained from my penis to relieve my erection. It took some time to heal from the physical trauma from the drainage, but my member is back working again.

Like Charlie said, use GoodRx, I just paid $42 for 90 5mg tadalafil (generic Cialis). I could have gotten it cheaper had I gone to another pharmacy if I wanted to take the very slightly longer drive to it.

Thanks for the heads up on prices and potential problems.

I guess for now I’ll back off the HCG for two weeks to try and bring down the E2 number.

Matt

The only problem I have had is if I take the full 5mg pill I get really bad heartburn. I have been taking half a pill to keep it at bay. I don’t take it for ED and now I get more random hard on’s though, that could be a problem. Mornings are particularly troublesome with kids around the house. Lots of hiding behind the counters and keeping my back to them as I am trying to leave the room LOL.

If you get heart burn, did you try to take with food. I got the heartburn the first week then it went away

No I haven’t tried taking it right with food. Is that supposed to help? I was only taking 1/2 a pill and now am taking 3/4 and it hasn’t been too bad. Last night I decided to try to take the whole pill and woke up with it again.

Everytime I wake up in the middle of the night am hard. When I wake up hard. goes away pretty quick before I go downstairs.

Yes taking with food will def help. With cialis you can take with food and not lose affect

Edit. I misread woke up with it as a boner not heartburn.

Take with a meal for sure. And I would not take right before bed

Ok ok fellas let’s keep this thread on track here. Good to know it helps if it comes to that.

I found another thread and attached study with the calculator that seems to say my E2 is actually not high enough in comparison to the T level. Ratio being .36

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@charlie12 - this may be the single best thing I’ve read here, haha… I take tadalifil daily too. 5mg was too expensive through insurance and they only covered 4 pills. My urologist wrote a script for 4mg and sent to a compounding pharmacy where Ive been paying $130 for a 90 day supply. ($540 a year)

After reading this, I asked him to send a script to stop and shop for 5mg/90 day. If the good rx coupon works, it will cost $33.34 for a 90 day supply of 5mg. ($133.36 a year).

Amazing if this works, saving quite a bit of money. Thanks!

Let me know. Awesome!

I love my Cialis…

I actually got my approved by insurance my urologist for bph which is very mild…