Thanks…In your experience where does Free T need to be to enhance the ole sex life?
I need to disagree here, if he is 6’2, 245 and heinously fat (as in BF% is very high) he needs to drop some weight to optimise his body to run well on TRT. (lower BF equtates to lower leptin output, less leptin resistance = less chance of insulin resistance, less systemic aromatisation (visceral adipose tissue contains aromatase, is recognised as an endocrine organ now) potentially leading to T/E2 balance)… it may be harder to lose weight on TRT, but its is possible, if he isn’t just a super heavyset dude (massive frame etc), then I’d say get down to at least 220. No natty guy with a regular frame will be 245… even in terms of muscle mass, you’d be hard pressed to find the avg 6’2 Joe ever approach that without gear (@hardartery you’re a genetic anomaly, being both big framed and large, and from you’re familial history with the strongest man competition it appears you may have world class genes)
I’m going to have to disagree with you, mostly. As soon as I’m done with my workout 
@kandeman2 there is no magic number for anyone but oftentimes it approaches 30 or more for free T.
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Jury is still out I think. My well being is a tick lower, energy about the same, mental clarity/fog is a tick lower… Libido seems to be lurking and there when I need it and bedroom performance has improved… Which is great actually. So, some better, some a little worse.
It’s been 7 weeks since the change to daily, so I’m staying the course for a bit longer… But early returns are positive and hope my doctor feels the same and doesn’t ask me to change. Thanks again
I’d say I’m about 20% Bodyfat…I wear a 36" in pants and a 48 L jacket…Just maxed out over the weekend and can still get 225 for 5 on incline…I can overhead Press 170 for 5…I can squat 315 for 5 and I can Dead 375 for 5.
My fighting weight is definitely 215-220 ish … so I need to lose 25 lbs or so…
Am I too out of shape for TRT?
If you’re actually 20% BF then not at all
OK, my take on this:
I believe it is a myth to tell a heavy guy that he needs to lose weight before starting TRT.
Take a guy who is obese… 300lbs. His total T is 200 and his estrogen is 80. Yes, he is aromatizing a ton due to the excess bodyfat. It is not the high estrogen causing the fatness, it is the fatness causing the high estrogen.
The guy decides enough is enough and needs to lose the fat, put on lean muscle mass, improve cardiovascular health. But his damn T is 200. Why not give the guy the tools to be able to gain the muscle mass which will increase his metabolism? Why not give the guy the tools that will significantly improve insulin parameters, cardiovascular health, lipids, bone mineral density, return his libido and erections, improve cognition, drive, improve motivation to get to the gym in the first place and some animal aggression to blast through workouts.
Why would you possibly want to tell the guy, “No, you need to achieve the above WITHOUT the required tools. Once you have achieved the above then we will give you the tools…”??
Think about this. It makes no sense.
HOWEVER: If the guy has been sitting on his ass for years and never exercised in his life, the provided tools will definitely assist in all these things but, if he does too much too fast, his body may not be prepared for the sudden rise in physical activity and boom - heart attack. Provide the tools but ensure everything is done at a pace that makes sense. Definitely assess heart health etc by a physician to ensure there are no underlying issues that could blow up at any given second.
Give the man the tools when he needs them most.
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Yeah I’m very confused by your response…
It seems to me that running a Calorie Defecit and adequate protein would only be enhanced by TRT ?
It looks like dbossa agrees with me as well…
I mean if you’re 20% you’re fine for trt
I meant not too out of shape at all
I’m referring to the second option that dbossa presented
The man who has been unhealthy his entire life, obese, sedentary, eats badly… could acquire decent or perhaps optimal T by just eating right and exercising
It’s a grey area giving these men TRT… and if it was to occur one would want to assess health parameters very carefully. Such men will be far more prone to adverse effects based on sudden shifts away from homeostasis
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got it…thanks.
Dammit. I agree with you here.
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@dbossa so based on my bloodwork numbers on .25 ml 3x week, the the adjustment to .22 ml 3x a week and ensuing symptoms of blah-ness what would your protocol be for the cypionate and hcg?
Why are you taking HCG in the first place?
I also thought that way and hoped for that for year and a half, but in all forums I read I could not find even a single case of a man that raised his t that way enough to get symptoms relief. To me seems that once the damage on the endocrine system is done it is irreversible and the body tries to maintain homeostasis with lower T numbers
I told defy doc that I wanted to have kids, although I am not currently trying to have them. That’s what was prescribed.
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Ditch the HCG for now and increase testosterone dose to compensate. You can start adding HCG later on when you are ready. The stuff works pretty quick. 2 months before you want to start trying is usually plenty of time if you are taking 500 IU two to three times weekly.
Copy that.
I’m also on 12.5 mg ibutamoren for igf number and sleep. Thoughts on keeping/dropping that?
No issue with that if you are seeing benefits.
Thanks for the input sir.
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