Women's BB Club in Afghanistan

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Sxio wrote:

C’mon dude. Were you even alive in WW2?

No, not even close, I’m 17.

And the bad news for you is, that’s the last war America won and you sure as hell did not do it by yourselves. It was a group effort.

First off you guys were getting your asses wooped, Britain was the only country hanging on until the U.S. entered and saved your asses, you can’t make an argument against this. We also won the korean war in the 1950’s, gulf war, in the early 1990’s. We won every battle in Vietnam, but did not win the war as containing commmunism did not happend.

Like my fellow aussie said, we generally don’t start wars.

Well unfortunately, Australia does not have a large military, and in there best interest starting a war would not end well.

That seems to be your country’s job. But we still go into it with you. Because at heart, we still believe that you guys are on the right side. Even if most other countries don’t.

Much appreciated, the little help you do give us shows a lot, how many soldiers did you guys supply?

That should count for something.

And are you saying that your current government is not stupid? Seriously?

Wow.

yes I am. Do I agree with all their actions, no, do I support them hell yea. The United States is the most powerful country militarily and econnomically in the world. You know how it got that way? Because of our military and government.

[/quote]

Well I’m sure as hell not going to argue with a 17yr old. But I think in your WW2 example you’re forgetting Russia (yeah, small omission there) and I can sense from your attitude that you’re not going to change your mind.

So i’m not even going to try.

Good luck with the whole black and white viewpoint. I can tell you from experience that it doesn’t last, or it doesn’t end well. One of the two.

42

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
The Taliban obviously understood that giving up freedoms for security is exactly what the people want.

Lol[/quote]

Actually, that is a spot on observation.

Same reason Iraqis would rather live under Saddam than in the God-forsaken Iraq turned into post invasion. And the same goes for the astonishing support the Islamic court in Somalia had up until the US-backed invasion.

The sad part is that many people refuse to consider alternative perspectives, or worse, make the arguments personal.

43

[quote]lixy wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Taliban obviously understood that giving up freedoms for security is exactly what the people want.

Lol

Actually, that is a spot on observation.

Same reason Iraqis would rather live under Saddam than in the God-forsaken Iraq turned into post invasion. And the same goes for the astonishing support the Islamic court in Somalia had up until the US-backed invasion.

The sad part is that many people refuse to consider alternative perspectives, or worse, make the arguments personal.[/quote]

I had no problem with the Taliban, they had a right to live in the 14th century to their heart’s content. If they did not export their terrorism via al-qaeda, we would not be in the mess we’re in.

Like it or not, 9-11 opened the door to the invasion of Afghanistan and even Iraq, and if the World Trade attacks never happened I doubt we would be in either country today.

How would we know that the Somalis would be any different than the Taliban in regards to exporting terrorism?

(You claim a US backed invasion? It was the Somalis who threatened the Ethopians with Jihad first. For someone who claims to hate Islamists and wahabbis, you think you would be in favor of ousting the Islamic Courts if they had ties with al-qaeda. Funny how your stance constantly changes by the day and event. The only thing which remains the same is your constant stream of blatant US propaganda.)

44

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
The Taliban obviously understood that giving up freedoms for security is exactly what the people want.

Lol[/quote]

Yet, you condemn GWB and the Government in this country for the same thing??? (ie Patriot Act, Airport Security measures, ect)

45

Well I have only been away from the war in Afghanistan for a year. But I would say the Aussies who are serving over there are doing a damn fine job. I have zero complaints about what they are doing. Keep up the good work boys.

If you are looking for an ally who is not worth his weight in salt look to the French. My wife just informed me I cannot go into details on this topic and of course she is right. Screw the French and encourage them to fight for the enemy if you are truly interested in winning. Leave ther Aussies alone.

46

Much appreciated Deadleg,
I currently have good friends serving there and they are working hard.
Thank you for your service and may you stay safe.

47

[quote]Sxio wrote:

Well I’m sure as hell not going to argue with a 17yr old. But I think in your WW2 example you’re forgetting Russia (yeah, small omission there) and I can sense from your attitude that you’re not going to change your mind.

So i’m not even going to try.

Good luck with the whole black and white viewpoint. I can tell you from experience that it doesn’t last, or it doesn’t end well. One of the two. [/quote]

Age has nothing to do with intelligance. How about you look up the amount of casualties russia suffered in WWII and then maybe you’ll change your mind.

48

[quote]lixy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I would trust graffiti found scrawled in a public restroom somewhere before the BBC for information concerning anything having to do with US foreign policy.

So you rant about Aussies, Swedes, and now even Brits.

Out of curiosity, is there a third-party you would consider even listening to, or is the whole world just jealous of your freedoms?

Also, what exactly is your beef with the BBC? It’s the largest and most respected news source in the world. Oh, I get it, you don’t like their motto, right? “Nation Shall Speak Peace Unto Nation”

In that spirit, I wish you all a happy new year 2008. Cheers![/quote]

No, we rant about aussies, swedes, and brits, who don’t know what they’re talking about showing disrespect towards my nation. We get insulted, then when we stand up for ourselves and are viewed as bullys? Where’s the logic in that. I don’t know what they do in sweden, but if someone spits in your face here, you spit back.

49

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
For someone who claims to hate Islamists and wahabbis, you think you would be in favor of ousting the Islamic Courts if they had ties with al-qaeda. [/quote]

Sorry mate, but I don’t believe the ICU has ties with Al-Qaeda. This is Saddam-Qaeda link all over again.

I’ll grant you that they are “Islamists”, but they are nowhere near the savagery of the Saudi Wahabbis. I’m very much opposed to their rule, but they brought years of peace and prosperity to a damned place.

You don’t seem to understand that opposing a regime and condoning a foreign force overthrowing it are completely different things. I don’t like Bush nor his policies, but I will never support a country trying to oust him. Change must come from within.

50

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
lixy wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
I would trust graffiti found scrawled in a public restroom somewhere before the BBC for information concerning anything having to do with US foreign policy.

So you rant about Aussies, Swedes, and now even Brits.

Out of curiosity, is there a third-party you would consider even listening to, or is the whole world just jealous of your freedoms?

Also, what exactly is your beef with the BBC? It’s the largest and most respected news source in the world. Oh, I get it, you don’t like their motto, right? “Nation Shall Speak Peace Unto Nation”

In that spirit, I wish you all a happy new year 2008. Cheers!

No, we rant about aussies, swedes, and brits, who don’t know what they’re talking about showing disrespect towards my nation. We get insulted, then when we stand up for ourselves and are viewed as bullys? Where’s the logic in that. I don’t know what they do in sweden, but if someone spits in your face here, you spit back.[/quote]

You damn right. This double standard bullshit, is just that bullshit. People come to an American site and start ranting about how America is bad, then try and call us a bunch of bullies when we defend ourselves.

51

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
No, we rant about aussies, swedes, and brits, who don’t know what they’re talking about showing disrespect towards my nation. We get insulted, then when we stand up for ourselves and are viewed as bullys? Where’s the logic in that. [/quote]

My post was addressed to Trib not you. Despite your young age, you still come across as much more mature than he is.

I didn’t insult you or showed disrespect for your nation. In fact, I respect it very much. But, among other things, I will not stand for abuse and gratuitous violence. Last I checked, many Americans were fed up with their country’s interventionism. It’s not just the “aussies, swedes, and brits”.

The USA is a bully in the international scene. That much you can’t argue. It uses bully tactics. I understand that you’d want to defend your country, but for heaven’s sake, don’t be arrogant. You allegedly rant about those “who don’t know what they’re talking about”. Please point to the arguments you find questionable so we can discuss them.

And just for the record, I believe you’re the one who doesn’t have a clue with regards to the role oil played in the decision to invade Iraq. Your denial is nothing but instinctive. If you can’t get past that, there’s little I can do to help. But here’s something that you may find interesting:

“I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil.” – Alan Greenspan

Finally, I highly that you have much understanding of geopolitics at your age. Reading history books is just dandy, but keep a critical mind at all times. Remember who writes history, travel around, meet new people, don’t hang out exclusively with those with the same political views. Only once you realize that the world is not black and white can you challenge the (ludicrous?) idea that the US is the most noble nation on Earth.

Absolutely! Here’s something one of your compatriots once said that resounds profoundly with me: “Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law, respect everyone; but if someone puts his hand on you, send him to the cemetery.” – Malcolm X

However, you just seem determined to attack whoever criticizes your country. Nationalism and pride are double-edged swords, so make sure you aren’t blinded by them.

Ok, I’m done preaching. A few questions though: Do you think it’s intellectually honest to give credit to the American soldiers for that gym in Afghanistan? Isn’t it hypocritical to do so when the US was directly responsible for the rise of militant Islam in the region in the first place?

52

Again, there is no oil in Afghanistan as Zap pointed out. When I made that comment it was in regards to this. Also I stated that in my honest opinion the Iraq war is not for the oil. Show me all the oil exports that the U.S. is recieving from Iraq and how much it’s benefitting the Rising Oil Prices" that we’re seeing every other day.

In regards to me telling people they have no clue what they are talking about, it was stated that the U.S. has not won a war since WW2, and thats a bullshit claim at the least. Also the role of the United States in WW2 has been downplayed and that is also bullshit. There is not one person on here that could make even the slightest attempt at justifying that the United States was not the number one reason that the Allies won the war.

On to your questions, Yes I do give credit to the soldiers for that accomplishment. Obviously if the US knew what kind of monster they helping to create after supplying the Islamics with weapons and such I am positive that they would not have supplied them w/ weapons in the firt place. At the time our Cold War with Russia was more important than thaughts of the future. With that being said I think any victory againts the terrorists is noeworthy, and deserves recognition.

53

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Show me all the oil exports that the U.S. is recieving from Iraq and how much it’s benefitting the Rising Oil Prices" that we’re seeing every other day. [/quote]

The war is benefiting plenty of people, but certainly not the general populace. Go look at the astronomical earnings of weapon manufacturers and oil companies.

Watch this if you got a moment. I’m sure you’ll end up learning something new.

11 Lessons from the life of Robert McNamara
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8653788864462752804

You are assuming US foreign policy is made by the people over at Disney. I think they knew exactly the kind of monster they were creating, but figured that, since Afghanistan is on the other side of the planet, they were unlikely to get hurt. What a blow in the face 9/11 was!

It is my belief that Bush knew exactly what he was getting into by attacking Iraq. I was among the millions around the world that marched in protest, echoing the message that he would be emboldening Al-Qaeda and helping the terrorists. We demanded some evidence about the WMDs and the alleged link between Saddam and Ben Laden. What did the US administration do?

Attack as soon as possible, knowing full well that once the troops are on the ground, there’ll be no way to remove them because Iraq would have been turned into a terrorist breeding ground. This is not hindsight. It’s what we were shouting in the streets of NY, London and Madrid before the invasion had even started.

54

[quote]lixy wrote:
Isn’t it hypocritical to do so when the US was directly responsible for the rise of militant Islam in the region in the first place?

Mujahideen - Wikipedia [/quote]

Yeah, too bad we didn’t just let the Ruskies exterminate the vermin like they have been doing for the past 200 years or so to muslims.

Then we probably wouldn’t be having this conversation.

Oh well, a missed opportunity…

55

[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Obviously if the US knew what kind of monster they helping to create after supplying the Islamics with weapons and such I am positive that they would not have supplied them w/ weapons in the firt place. At the time our Cold War with Russia was more important than thaughts of the future.
[/quote]

They did not expect the muslims they helped to suddenly turn on their benefactor and stab us in the back.

The muslims have no gratitude.

56

[quote]lixy wrote:
I think they knew exactly the kind of monster they were creating, but figured that, since Afghanistan is on the other side of the planet, they were unlikely to get hurt. What a blow in the face 9/11 was!
[/quote]

Why are you justifying a terrorist attack on our country?

57

What did America do to create these islamists:

and many more.

Nothing?

Well maybe your problems should be with your religion and not with America, since there were Islamic fanatics since it’s founding.

59

[quote]lixy wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Taliban obviously understood that giving up freedoms for security is exactly what the people want.

Lol

Actually, that is a spot on observation.

Same reason Iraqis would rather live under Saddam than in the God-forsaken Iraq turned into post invasion. And the same goes for the astonishing support the Islamic court in Somalia had up until the US-backed invasion.

The sad part is that many people refuse to consider alternative perspectives, or worse, make the arguments personal.[/quote]

Nonsense.
The far greater part of truth stems from -as usual- demographics.

In a democracy, the rural, jobless backwards people can impose the merciless tyranny of the majority. If you visit Istanbul or Ankara, the prople are all secular, cosmopolitan and nice. But go eastwards and prepare to get stoned if you flirt with some village-beauty.
Same goes for most islamic nations.

Give the jobs, a modern, clean, urban environment and the majority will soon forget all that sharia nonsense.

60

Is that satire or are u serious?