[quote]hardgnr wrote:
Somebody link me a good Nas song. I’ve yet to hear one. [/quote]
Do you like rap songs in general? If so, then you must not have heard any Nas songs.
Here’s my list of good NAS songs. The guy is a genius. Could be GOAT.
Nas - Halftime - YouTube (older shit)
Hate me Now - NaS feat. P.Diddy HQ Best Sound Quality - YouTube ( Personal Fave )
NaS - Got Yourself a Gun - YouTube ( Crazy shit )
- YouTube (Bill O’reilly diss)
The Blueprint is better than The Black Album, and it’s Jay-Z’s best album. Jay-Z’s biggest talent was coming up with hits, and Blueprint was full of them. It’s pretty much the standard and as far as the big budget rap blockbuster goes. If you want to make a hit album, your best bet is to follow The Blueprint (pun intended).
[quote]elusive wrote:
Because of everyone of Jay’s songs in his catalog, compared to anyone else is why he is considered the G.O.A.T. It sounds like you haven’t listened to any of Jay’s music besides his singles.[/quote]
I have listened to every Jay-Z album except for Vol 1., and that Linkin Park collab, and it isn’t hard to see that his catalogue isn’t befitting of GOAT status. Reasonable Doubt was a great album, even though I don’t really think it broke new ground is was crafted well. Vol 2. and Vol 3. are good albums, but not great. The Dynasty was more of a group album than solo, and it was average. The Blueprint is a classic. The Blueprint 2 is possibly the worst double album ever released outside of the progressive rock genre. The Black Album is a great album, though not up to Blueprint and RD’s standards. Kingdom Come is the rap equivelant of an Air Supply album, also one of the worst big name rap albums I’ve heard. American Gangster was OK. The Blueprint 3 hasn’t come out yet, but despite the good production, Jay’s rapping is weak.
Eminem has released 5 albums (excluding the 8 Mile Soundtrack). The Slim Shady LP was an amazing album, if not a classic. The Marshall Mathers LP was a classic. The Eminem Show was a good album, and Encore was OK. Relapse was a bomb, but even when he bombed you still couldn’t deny he was a talented rhymer and was still one of the best rappers when it came to things like rhyme structure, alliteration, etc. What is there to acknowledge when a Jay-Z album bombs. The beats? There wasn’t a redeeming quality to Kingdom Come, nor The Blueprint 2.
And we haven’t even gotten to comparing Jay-Z’s catalogue to people like Rakim, A Tribe Called Quest, Ghostface Killah, The Roots, UGK, OutKast, The Beastie Boys, Kanye West, etc. if we’re talking about GOAT. And if the size of the catalogue doesn’t matter, throw in Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth, and Biggie too.
As for rapping about real issues mattering most, I’ll echo what others have said and state that how you say it matter as much if not more. Hip Hop is still entertainment first. If you want to learn something read a book or the newspaper. And regardless, Eminem does talk about issues that he deals with in real life, even if he does exaggerate a bit (hyperbole isn’t uncommon in rap in case you didn’t know :D). Just because someone chooses to rap about issues in the context of their own lives doesn’t make them a lesser rapper. If anything it makes them more interesting, and thus better.
I like Jay-Z, I just don’t think he’s much more than a guy who crafts hits, which is hard to do anyway. His job in hip hop isn’t much different than 50 Cent’s was, or what T.I.'s is now. Eminem is on another level entirely. Jay’s made an art of making big hits, and Em’s an artist that hit big.
BTW new Jay-Z song, “Run This Town” out:
Good hook, OK beat, and yes, again Jay-Z got outshined by another rapper on a guest verse (this time it’s Kanye West).
eminem on that song
but Jay-Z overall is a better rapper and has had much more longevity than eminem.
BTW, here’s a new Jay-Z song leaked a few days ago, called “Run This Town”:
Good hook, okay beat, and another guest verse that overshadows Jay, this time by Kanye.
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Ct. Rockula wrote:
what the hell was eminem talking about?
I have to give this to Jay-Z, I mean his verses were just so real, gotta love it. I relate to that. Eminem was just babbling about how much people don’t like him. Em talks faster than Jay, so what? He rhymes better, again so what? It doesn’t matter (or shouldnt) how well you say something if it doesn’t mean anything
I mean just read the song without listening, who has a more potent message? Eminem talkin about how much people hate him, or Jay-Z talking about how real ghetto life is? I can understand this, what J is saying because I’ve been there, his words really mirror situations from my own life. I can’t get down with Slim, in this song he makes two verses about virtually nothing. “Oh, lord people don’t like me” I mean whaere’s his message? What are we supposed to get from this? We all know he’s hated by alot of different groups why does he keep talking about it?
i
[Jay-Z]
Motherfuckers -
say that I’m foolish I only talk about jewels (bling bling)
Do you fools listen to music or do you just skim through it?
See I’m influenced by the ghetto you ruined
That same dude you gave nothin’, I made somethin doin’
what I do through and through and
I give you the news - with a twist it’s just his ghetto point-of-view
The renegade; you been afraid
I penetrate pop culture, bring 'em a lot closer to the block where they
pop toasters, and they live with they moms
Got dropped roasters, from botched robberies niggaz crotched over
Mommy’s knocked up cause she wasn’t watched over
Knocked down by some clown when child support knocked
No he’s not around - now how that sound to ya, jot it down
I bring it through the ghetto without ridin 'round
hidin down duckin strays from frustrated youths stuck in they ways
Just read a magazine that fucked up my day
How you rate music that thugs with nothin relate to it?
I help them see they way through it - not you
Can’t step in my pants, can’t walk in my shoes
Bet everything you worth; you lose your tie and your shirt
[Eminem]
Since I’m in a position to talk to these kids and they listen
I ain’t no politician but I’ll kick it with ‘em a minute
Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I’ll wear it
But if it don’t, then y’all’ll swallow the truth grin and bear it
Now who’s these king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics
Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics
Usin’ his music to steer it, sharin his views and his merits
But there’s a huge interference - they’re sayin you shouldn’t hear it
Maybe it’s hatred I spew, maybe it’s food for the spirit
Maybe it’s beautiful music I made for you to just cherish
But I’m debated disputed hated and viewed in America
as a motherfuckin drug addict - like you didn’t experiment?
Now now, that’s when you start to stare at who’s in the mirror
and see yourself as a kid again, and you get embarrased
And I got nothin’ to do but make you look stupid as parents
You fuckin do-gooders - too bad you couldn’t do good at marriage!
(Ha ha!) And do you have any clue what I had to do to get here I don’t
think you do so stay tuned and keep your ears glued to the stereo
Cause here we go - he’s {Jigga joint Jigga-chk-Jigga
And I’m the sinister, Mr. Kiss-My-Ass it’s just the
[Jay-Z]
I had to hustle, my back to the wall, ashy knuckles
Pockets filled with a lot of lint, not a cent
Gotta vent, lot of innocent of lives lost on the project bench
Whatchu hollerin’? Gotta pay rent, bring dollars in
By the bodega, iron under my coat, feelin braver
Doo-rag wrappin my waves up, pockets full of hope
Do not step to me - I’m awkward, I box leftier often
My pops left me an orphan, my momma wasn’t home
Could not stress to me I wasn’t grown; ‘specially on nights
I brought somethin home to quiet the stomach rumblings
My demeanor - thirty years my senior
My childhood didn’t mean much, only raisin green up
Raisin’ my fingers to critics; raisin’ my head to the sky
BIG I did it - multi before I die (nigga)
No lie, just know I chose my own fate
I drove by the fork in the road and went straight
[Eminem]
See I’m a poet to some, a regular modern day Shakespeare
Jesus Christ the King of these Latter Day Saints here
To shatter the picture in which of that as they paint me
as a monger of hate and Satan a scatter-brained atheist
But that ain’t the case, see it’s a matter of taste
We as a people decide if Shady’s as bad as they say he is
Or is he the latter - a gateway to escape?
Media scapegoat, who they can be mad at today
See it’s easy as cake, simple as whistlin Dixie
while I’m wavin the pistol at sixty Christians against me
Go to war with the Mormons, take a bath with the Catholics
in holy water - no wonder they try to hold me under longer
I’m a motherfuckin spiteful, DELIGHTFUL eyeful
The new Ice Cube - motherfuckers HATE to like you
What did I do? (huh?) I’m just a kid from the gutter
makin this butter off these bloodsuckers, cause I’m a muh’fuckin
Jay-Z wins on realness. That is why he is considered GOAT. The streets have known this cat since he was a boy, he’d be a legend even if he wasn’t a rapper. That is what makes Jay respected, most who have any recent connection to the game (not rap) but the actual “distribution” game has dealt with him or still does.
Jay-gets props for his ambition, for taking the story from this song and making an alternate ending to it.
The Immortal
About time you showed up!
That’s why I said it was a real debate over who outshined who on the song. I agree on the realness of jay’s verses and certainly think it was a great verse. But, context isn’t just the only thing to account on a song. That’s why we don’t see Immortal Technique, MF doom, Talib Kweli and others being mentioned in the GOAT conversation, is because they basically don’t have any “flow”. And those guys are as “real as it gets”.
his is why rap is dying^^^^^
that, plus those cats are to militant for mainstream they scare people because they don’t sing and dance like black people are “meant” to. They don’t adhere to the stereotype of “when niggas get money they goes insane”. You can control most rappers with checks but not the dudes from your list.
If you listened to the song over and over, Em’s flow is just absolutely ridiculous, plus his rhymes and the way he structured his verses are incredible.
To say nothing, not very impressive^^^
Why is BIGGIE considered by many as GOAT? Mainly because of his incredible flow and clever rhymes. And his subject? Killing people, raping women, selling drugs and gangbangin’. That was him for most of his short career.
^ like Jay-Z Biggie was known for his hustle. He’s just a dude that just happend to rap. People identified with the struggle of hood life. They felt it from him, they knew it was real. Real recognized real. I mean, fuck Jeezy is a horrible rapper but you can feel what he’s sayin
It’s not necessarily what you talk about its how you say it. Em took this song and slayed it. He flowed like an instrument. And jay ain’t even top 5 really. Lyrically, he’s not all that. His flow is suspect and to be honest, the guy is over rated. The only things going for him are Beyonce and his dough.
Jay Z has so much street cred that if he went bankrupt the hood would put him on hs fet again. Jay’s got hustling in his nature, like I said dudes like big and J are legends because of the hustle.
I’ll never understand why people would rather listen to what sounds food over what “means” good. Truthfully sounding better even goes to J, Em’s voice is disgusting
Plus, if the two FREESTYLED EM would murder JAYz and I think that’s something we can all agree on.
this is how a J vs Em freestyle would go
Eminem would take 10 minutes of rhyming (good rhyming) but mess it up by calling Jay a fag at every punch line. I think Jay Z would win that too. This is pretty much for the same reason as above. I 'm not into punchline rappers like little dwayne or Eminem. I want a street dude like Jeezy or Jay Z if we’re ttalkin “pop” hop.
For this song though
just say you’d never heard these dudes and youre on a bus
Jay sits next to you says his verses and gets off. The em gets on and says his and gets off. Imagine your convo with Jay, wouldnt you perfer that one over em’s bitchin?
[/quote]
While I’m not knee deep in the rap game like some of you, I keep seeing people mention Jay Z’s longevity over Eminem. Reasonable Doubt was released in 96, the Slim Shady LP was released in 99. Is 3 years all that much of a difference considering Jay Z also “retired” for about 3 years, anyway?
Wow Ct. Rockula. You are quite possibly one of the biggest haters I’ve came across trying to point out Em’s subject at every opportunity.
And you really think Jayz would win a FREESTYLE battle with the guy who came 2nd in the Rap Olympics? And the guy who beat him, MC Juice was accused of writing the supposed “freestyle”. No one in the game right now, maybe EVER has the ability to rhyme of the top of his head like Eminem.
And as for the “bitchin”? What does he actually bitch about? LOL. He talks about his life as much as Jayz does. Sure he does talk about alot of crazy shit but like I said, sometimes ITS NOT WHAT YOU SAY, BUT HOW YOU SAY IT. Dude flows like an instrument and rhymes like no other.
And if I were on a bus and heard them rhyme? Ever had a song that made you say “WTF. Did he just say what I think he did”? When you rewind the song a million times cuz the dude is just so ILL? That’s what makes him above and beyond jayz. Have someone listen to his shit and watch them make those “faces” like they just smelled something nasty.
But again, Jay is still great. I can’t hate on the dude. Still one of the best. Not just quite on Nas or Em’s level.
who would win in a rap battle Jay-z or Eminem? It would be interesting but I think Eminem is overall better rapper and would win in a rap battle
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
While I’m not knee deep in the rap game like some of you, I keep seeing people mention Jay Z’s longevity over Eminem. Reasonable Doubt was released in 96, the Slim Shady LP was released in 99. Is 3 years all that much of a difference considering Jay Z also “retired” for about 3 years, anyway?[/quote]
If you want to argue that you can say Jay-Z first appeared on a Big L song in '91 and kind of made “special appearances” up until '96. Eminem was on a lot of mixtapes/underground compilations starting around 95/96 and went mainstream in 99…It’s tough to say who has more longevity in the rap game considering Eminem, during the last 5 years, has stuck to producing while jay-z has been an executive. They both have been around for a while and are both still popular in the hip hop world. Longevity will come into play in the next 5 years or so for both of them. In my opinion they both belong to hip hops golden age. Jay-Z came out mainstream in the heart of it, while Eminem towards the end.
Neither one of them has anything on Ja Rule.
ooo Ja Rule
/thread
[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
While I’m not knee deep in the rap game like some of you, I keep seeing people mention Jay Z’s longevity over Eminem. Reasonable Doubt was released in 96, the Slim Shady LP was released in 99. Is 3 years all that much of a difference considering Jay Z also “retired” for about 3 years, anyway?[/quote]
i thought the slim shady LP was released in 2000
Jay-Z didn’t retire for 3 years either. he didn’t drop an LP for like a year but he was collabing the whole time. it was a stupid ass publicity stunt. Jay-Z also has way more classics than Eminem and look at them now, Eminem is already washed up he still has lyrical ability but he is nowhere near the same man he was whereas Jay-Z just dropped DOA
“It’s murda!!!”
HOLLA HOLLA
tupac.
Lol. I think Ja Rule’s actually trying to make a comeback and trying to revive the beef he had with 50 cent.
[quote]B.L.U. Ninja wrote:
Wow Ct. Rockula. You are quite possibly one of the biggest haters I’ve came across trying to point out Em’s subject at every opportunity.
I’m not going out of my way to do it though. Its just always so blatant. haha, don’t mean to offend yu man.
And you really think Jayz would win a FREESTYLE battle with the guy who came 2nd in the Rap Olympics? And the guy who beat him, MC Juice was accused of writing the supposed “freestyle”. No one in the game right now, maybe EVER has the ability to rhyme of the top of his head like Eminem.
Most Freestyles are written or prepared anyway. Forget all the hype of “this dude doesnt write anything down” yes they all do. Some just have real good memories due to rehearsing. I mean, do you think Sylvester Stalone Freestyled Rocky? They all have time to prepare, that’s why they have a meting before the battles. The point is to let them gauge each other and pick their attack points.
And as for the “bitchin”? What does he actually bitch about? LOL. He talks about his life as much as Jayz does. Sure he does talk about alot of crazy shit but like I said, sometimes ITS NOT WHAT YOU SAY, BUT HOW YOU SAY IT. Dude flows like an instrument and rhymes like no other.
I’ve never taken anything away from his flow, that is pretty wicked.
Em just doesnt seem like a dude that deserves to bitch though. He just complains about his childhood and his mom never being there. There are many rappers who raised themselves…I mean there’s a dude on T-Nation that doesnt know where his mom is. You don’t see him writing songs about fucking his mom in the ass do you? (Marshal Matthers LP)So in short em bitches about problems he’s created, thats all.
I just hear Jay’s music and see a boy’s struggle to bacome his own man. Em’s is just a whining “woe as me” vibe. Honestly, I think he made alot of his problems and messed up situation on his own. He seems like a trouble maker.So in short em bitches about problems he’s created, thats all.
And if I were on a bus and heard them rhyme?
Not rhyme but had the converstaion with them. like these were the words they were saying to you. jUST CASUAL COVO
Ever had a song that made you say “WTF. Did he just say what I think he did”? When you rewind the song a million times cuz the dude is just so ILL? That’s what makes him above and beyond jayz. Have someone listen to his shit and watch them make those “faces” like they just smelled something nasty.
haha “like they just smelled something nasty” nice one!
Em has a “wow” factor. That’s all though. I’ve never rewound anything by him because “the best thing since wrestling infesting in your kids ears and nesting” isnt worth the time haha…neither is “i never meant to give you mushrooms girl, i never meant to bring you to my world” and especially not “there’s vomit on his sweater aldy, mom’s spaghetti”
But again, Jay is still great. I can’t hate on the dude. Still one of the best. Not just quite on Nas or Em’s level.
Nas is another one that is in the “legend by cred” boat although nas is sick too. I think if a list is to be made we need to seperate rappers that make music for “suburbs” (weezy and eminem) from rappers that do it to rep their origin like nas, bigg, or Jigga.
[/quote]