White Sh*tbag...

[Wreckless]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Wreckless wrote:

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

I don’t remember many liberal democrats being shocked or offended when Hillary Rodham called Paul Fray a “fucking Jew bastard,” either.

Then again, there are some issues about the modifyer “Jew.” It’s not clear what she was trying to imply…

[/quote]
Since we’re going back in time.

I remember when blacks protesting segration were beaten by police and bitten by dogs.

I remember when people protesting the Vietnam war were shot.

Now they are worried about getting insulted ? ? ?
But perhaps he didn’t think his cause was worth getting insulted over?

[Go_Rilla]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Wreckless wrote:

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

I don’t remember many liberal democrats being shocked or offended when Hillary Rodham called Paul Fray a “fucking Jew bastard,” either.

Then again, there are some issues about the modifyer “Jew.” It’s not clear what she was trying to imply…

[/quote]

I just love it when Hillary talks dirty.

[Zap_Branigan]

[quote]lucasa wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:

I dunno vroom – I think it’s just as clearly racist as if someone called an Asian a “yellow shitbag,” an American Indian a “red shitbag,” an Indian Indian a “brown shitbag” or an African American a “black shitbag.”

Insulting a gay man by calling him a “flaming shitbag”?[/quote]

A flaming shitbag is best left on the front doorstep.

[Gambles]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
The point is more a juxtaposition of Professor Potty-mouth’s tortured logic and the right of free speech than on your perception of the target’s character.

The College Republicans were engaging in political speech – Professor Potty-mouth wasn’t. Their speech is constitutionally protected – Professor Potty-mouth’s, in this instance, isn’t (fighting words exception). Yet this Prof is all about punishing/banning actual protected speech. And goes through some fairly convoluted logic as to why his “white shitbag” comment wasn’t racist and wouldn’t fall under the punishment/ban scheme he favors.

I disagree with most speech restrictions, and I don’t think Professor Potty-mouth deserves to be fired – but he does deserve to be put forth as a hypocrite. And the idea that political speech should be punished because some people find it offensive is a dangerous one.

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

Who’s the hypocrite now?[/quote]

Wreckless ,Wreckless ,Wreckless
We weren’t talking about bush or republicans now were we. if you have a beef with people post it in the right thread. Dumbass!

[DS_007]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
BostonBarrister wrote:
The point is more a juxtaposition of Professor Potty-mouth’s tortured logic and the right of free speech than on your perception of the target’s character.

The College Republicans were engaging in political speech – Professor Potty-mouth wasn’t. Their speech is constitutionally protected – Professor Potty-mouth’s, in this instance, isn’t (fighting words exception). Yet this Prof is all about punishing/banning actual protected speech. And goes through some fairly convoluted logic as to why his “white shitbag” comment wasn’t racist and wouldn’t fall under the punishment/ban scheme he favors.

I disagree with most speech restrictions, and I don’t think Professor Potty-mouth deserves to be fired – but he does deserve to be put forth as a hypocrite. And the idea that political speech should be punished because some people find it offensive is a dangerous one.

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

Who’s the hypocrite now?[/quote]

I think it’s pretty clear that most people would not have been angry had this guy just called him ‘shitbag’. It’s the ‘white’ part that pisses people off. Or, more to the point, they are pissed off that there is NO reaction to this rather compared to an instance - dare we imagine it - in which somone might be called a ‘black’ ANYTHING.

Bush called the guy a ‘major league asshole’, which as a member of the media he certainly is. I think they have to have that printed on their credentials now: Reporter Joe - Major Leauge Asshole.

As for Cheney, he was just doing a TV spot and it was taken out of context. The whole quote is: If don’t chew Big Red then fuck you!

[Varqanir]

[quote]Go-Rilla wrote:

I just love it when Hillary talks dirty.
[/quote]

Well, then, you’re just gonna loooooooove this:

http://sonic.net/maledicta/clintons.html

[Go_Rilla]

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Go-Rilla wrote:

I just love it when Hillary talks dirty.

Well, then, you’re just gonna loooooooove this:

http://sonic.net/maledicta/clintons.html[/quote]

She’s always been such a sweet thing.

Maybe if she could get Bill to fuck her more than twice a year (pg.170) she
would calm down a little.

[BostonBarrister]

[quote]Wreckless wrote:

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

Who’s the hypocrite now?[/quote]

Wreckless,

I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you miss the point due to language issues and not utter cluelessness…

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…[/quote]

This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.

[DS_007]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.[/quote]

It’s an issue for a white person to mention a non-white person’s race. To me this thing has nothing to do with the N-word. I think if you flipped this thing and the phrase was ‘black shit-bag’, it would be an issue.

To use a personal example: I was called ‘White-boy’ in a meeting of about 15 people (about 12 of these people happened to be black). The person who called me this was black, president of firm that my firm worked with and my firm wanted to preserve that relationship. We moved on, nothing was said, but it has bugged the shit out of me.

I do not think that race had anything to do with ANYTHING. And if I had been in his position and called him a ‘black boy’? Well, I think we all know that I’d be out of a job, don’t we?

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.

It’s an issue for a white person to mention a non-white person’s race. To me this thing has nothing to do with the N-word. I think if you flipped this thing and the phrase was ‘black shit-bag’, it would be an issue.

To use a personal example: I was called ‘White-boy’ in a meeting of about 15 people (about 12 of these people happened to be black). The person who called me this was black, president of firm that my firm worked with and my firm wanted to preserve that relationship. We moved on, nothing was said, but it has bugged the shit out of me.

I do not think that race had anything to do with ANYTHING. And if I had been in his position and called him a ‘black boy’? Well, I think we all know that I’d be out of a job, don’t we?

[/quote]
Still not the same thing! The word ‘boy’ used by a white person to a black person has connotations of the same ilk and the word nigger. The reverse cannot be said of a black person to a white person.

[Lorisco]

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.

It’s an issue for a white person to mention a non-white person’s race. To me this thing has nothing to do with the N-word. I think if you flipped this thing and the phrase was ‘black shit-bag’, it would be an issue.

To use a personal example: I was called ‘White-boy’ in a meeting of about 15 people (about 12 of these people happened to be black). The person who called me this was black, president of firm that my firm worked with and my firm wanted to preserve that relationship. We moved on, nothing was said, but it has bugged the shit out of me.

I do not think that race had anything to do with ANYTHING. And if I had been in his position and called him a ‘black boy’? Well, I think we all know that I’d be out of a job, don’t we?[/quote]

That is a clear example or a racist comment. Their was indeed a power issue at the time and the power was not yours (i.e. you could be fired). So this clearly meets the definition of what most would say was racist.

[BostonBarrister]

[quote]
orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.[/quote]

Problem here is twofold. One, the proper comparison would be to “black shitbag”, not to “n*%%er”. Second, the Professor in question wasn’t a good buddy kidding around with the student.

The main point isn’t a debate over the relative demerit of racial slurs, but to point out a professor at an institution of higher learning that supposedly is a laboratory/marketplace of ideas – the type of place that should be working the hardest to preserve free speech and exchange of and debate of ideas – both supports the curtailment of free speech rights when it comes to political points of view with which he disagrees, and then to illusrate how such a position can easily come back to bite him in his own @$$.

That and to point out he was not engaging in a debate about ideas, but merely trying to “shout down” the protestors – thus the “fighting words” exception being applicable in this particular case.

[Lorisco]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.

It’s an issue for a white person to mention a non-white person’s race. To me this thing has nothing to do with the N-word. I think if you flipped this thing and the phrase was ‘black shit-bag’, it would be an issue.

To use a personal example: I was called ‘White-boy’ in a meeting of about 15 people (about 12 of these people happened to be black). The person who called me this was black, president of firm that my firm worked with and my firm wanted to preserve that relationship. We moved on, nothing was said, but it has bugged the shit out of me.

I do not think that race had anything to do with ANYTHING. And if I had been in his position and called him a ‘black boy’? Well, I think we all know that I’d be out of a job, don’t we?

Still not the same thing! The word ‘boy’ used by a white person to a black person has connotations of the same ilk and the word nigger. The reverse cannot be said of a black person to a white person.
[/quote]

It can if the word White comes in front of it and the person saying it clearly has the power, as in this case. So in this situation it clearly was a racist comment.

[DS_007]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:
I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

This is precisely the point! I don’t think people understand the connotation with the choice of word nigger verses white. Me being called a “white shitbag” does not hold the same connotations as if I were to use the same phrase but instead of the word white I chose instead to use the word nigger.

This word when used as a slur by whites has a connotation of supremacy, ownership, and authority over black people which the word “white” when used as a slur cannot nor ever will have. This is why black people can use this word and whites cannot.

If I may make an analogy: my close friends and I often exchange “the finger” and a “hey, fuck face” as a cordial greeting. It would not be acceptable for a stranger (or an acquaintance) to do this to me or vice-verse.

It’s an issue for a white person to mention a non-white person’s race. To me this thing has nothing to do with the N-word. I think if you flipped this thing and the phrase was ‘black shit-bag’, it would be an issue.

To use a personal example: I was called ‘White-boy’ in a meeting of about 15 people (about 12 of these people happened to be black). The person who called me this was black, president of firm that my firm worked with and my firm wanted to preserve that relationship. We moved on, nothing was said, but it has bugged the shit out of me.

I do not think that race had anything to do with ANYTHING. And if I had been in his position and called him a ‘black boy’? Well, I think we all know that I’d be out of a job, don’t we?

Still not the same thing! The word ‘boy’ used by a white person to a black person has connotations of the same ilk and the word nigger. The reverse cannot be said of a black person to a white person.
[/quote]

Are you fucking kidding me? I guess if he called me a cracker you’d say it’s okay because I’m white and he’s black and I have the power and he’s just a powerless black man? Come on. It’s time to get real.

I would be pissed off if I heard a white person single out a black person becuase of his race, even if he were just ‘pointing it out’. Same goes if a black person does it do a white person. If it serves a puropse, fine. If it does not, then it shows me it’s on your mind and you have some issues with blacks or whites or whatever.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

It can if the word White comes in front of it and the person saying it clearly has the power, as in this case. So in this situation it clearly was a racist comment.

[/quote]
This is not a racist comment. In order for it to be considered racist the person using the slur has to show some hatred for white people and or believe his race to be superior over any other race. It may have been a prejudiced comment but certainly not a racist comment.

I find it hard to believe in a room full of black men a black man used the term “white boy” to a white man in a racist context; especially since this phrase is often used by blacks to make some perceived judgment as to the level of knowledge a white person can have in regards to stereotypical black topics. Is it really considered racism if a black person calls me a “white boy” because I try to wax philosophic about “soul food” with him (this actually happened to me)? Again, it may be a prejudiced phrase but it isn’t racist.

[BostonBarrister]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Again, it may be a prejudiced phrase but it isn’t racist. [/quote]

Now this is an interesting distinction. Perhaps the term “prejudiced,” which has somewhat fallen into disuse over the past few years, should come back into use for just such situations.

Personally, I think the word prejudice was dropped because people would much rather accuse others of racism: it’s a higher order insult/accusation.

It seems to me that in this case one could deduce that the Professor is clearly racially prejudiced against whites (common definition of prejudice here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prejudice )

Whether he’s racist (common definition of racism here: Racism Definition & Meaning | Dictionary.com ) is to me a more open question.

[DS_007]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

It can if the word White comes in front of it and the person saying it clearly has the power, as in this case. So in this situation it clearly was a racist comment.

This is not a racist comment. In order for it to be considered racist the person using the slur has to show some hatred for white people and or believe his race to be superior over any other race. It may have been a prejudiced comment but certainly not a racist comment.

I find it hard to believe in a room full of black men a black man used the term “white boy” to a white man in a racist context; especially since this phrase is often used by blacks to make some perceived judgment as to the level of knowledge a white person can have in regards to stereotypical black topics. Is it really considered racism if a black person calls me a “white boy” because I try to wax philosophic about “soul food” with him (this actually happened to me)? Again, it may be a prejudiced phrase but it isn’t racist. [/quote]

Ah! So I’m lying about it. Shit, man. I thought it really happened. Thanks for clearing it up. Here is a summation of the (imagined) conversation:

me: i think we can negotiate a rate increase. 10% across the board should be the goal. our profitablility is decreased…blah blah blah.

him (to my associate, a black guy, VP of operations): mike, you going to negotiate the rate increase or do you send the white boy in for this stuff?

(nervous laughter all around)

mike: we’ll probably both be at the meeting.

him: good. appraise me of how it affects our contract.

That’s the jist. It was odd, ill placed and stupid. I didn’t eat me up inside or even piss me off. It was just weird. I’d just like to see me do that to a subordinate.

[LIFTICVSMAXIMVS]

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

It can if the word White comes in front of it and the person saying it clearly has the power, as in this case. So in this situation it clearly was a racist comment.

This is not a racist comment. In order for it to be considered racist the person using the slur has to show some hatred for white people and or believe his race to be superior over any other race. It may have been a prejudiced comment but certainly not a racist comment.

I find it hard to believe in a room full of black men a black man used the term “white boy” to a white man in a racist context; especially since this phrase is often used by blacks to make some perceived judgment as to the level of knowledge a white person can have in regards to stereotypical black topics. Is it really considered racism if a black person calls me a “white boy” because I try to wax philosophic about “soul food” with him (this actually happened to me)? Again, it may be a prejudiced phrase but it isn’t racist.

Ah! So I’m lying about it. Shit, man. I thought it really happened. Thanks for clearing it up. Here is a summation of the (imagined) conversation:

me: i think we can negotiate a rate increase. 10% across the board should be the goal. our profitablility is decreased…blah blah blah.

him (to my associate, a black guy, VP of operations): mike, you going to negotiate the rate increase or do you send the white boy in for this stuff?

(nervous laughter all around)

mike: we’ll probably both be at the meeting.

him: good. appraise me of how it affects our contract.

That’s the jist. It was odd, ill placed and stupid. I didn’t eat me up inside or even piss me off. It was just weird. I’d just like to see me do that to a subordinate.[/quote]

You were clearly being complemented.

If it was weird you should have been a man and said something to him (in private) no matter his rank in the company. To one-up him you could have replied back, “This white-boy will get on it” or something else to that effect. It would have shown some character and at the same time just be sarcastic enough to get your point across.

I personally, would have been more irritated by being referred to in the third person as if I wasn’t sitting there but then again I have issues with authority figures in general.

[DS_007]

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
DS 007 wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

It can if the word White comes in front of it and the person saying it clearly has the power, as in this case. So in this situation it clearly was a racist comment.

This is not a racist comment. In order for it to be considered racist the person using the slur has to show some hatred for white people and or believe his race to be superior over any other race. It may have been a prejudiced comment but certainly not a racist comment.

I find it hard to believe in a room full of black men a black man used the term “white boy” to a white man in a racist context; especially since this phrase is often used by blacks to make some perceived judgment as to the level of knowledge a white person can have in regards to stereotypical black topics. Is it really considered racism if a black person calls me a “white boy” because I try to wax philosophic about “soul food” with him (this actually happened to me)? Again, it may be a prejudiced phrase but it isn’t racist.

Ah! So I’m lying about it. Shit, man. I thought it really happened. Thanks for clearing it up. Here is a summation of the (imagined) conversation:

me: i think we can negotiate a rate increase. 10% across the board should be the goal. our profitablility is decreased…blah blah blah.

him (to my associate, a black guy, VP of operations): mike, you going to negotiate the rate increase or do you send the white boy in for this stuff?

(nervous laughter all around)

mike: we’ll probably both be at the meeting.

him: good. appraise me of how it affects our contract.

That’s the jist. It was odd, ill placed and stupid. I didn’t eat me up inside or even piss me off. It was just weird. I’d just like to see me do that to a subordinate.

You were clearly being complemented.

If it was weird you should have been a man and said something to him (in private) no matter his rank in the company. To one-up him you could have replied back, “This white-boy will get on it” or something else to that effect. It would have shown some character and at the same time just be sarcastic enough to get your point across.

I personally, would have been more irritated by being referred to in the third person as if I wasn’t sitting there but then again I have issues with authority figures in general.[/quote]

Hey! Thanks for all the great pointers! I don’t know where I’d be in my life without people like you telling me how to do things RIGHT! Thanks for telling me how to be a man, too! I’ll take that advice, since you know all the details: this guys background, what kind of attitude he has, who he is, what he’s about, the exact nature of our relationship, how the contract is structured…

Again, turn it around. What if I chose to compliment an employee saying, “You doing this deal yourself or are you assigning it to the black guy over there?”