White Sh*tbag...

[quote]Edders wrote:

Don’t you understand that the term “racist” was created to stop white people from discriminating against blacks? It has no power at all over black people who want to discriminate against whites. Or, any societal discrimination against white people.
[/quote]

Well, thank you, Edders, for that refreshingly blatant but by no means unexpected oversimplification.

I remember you from the Tiki Barber thread. Why don’t you call your Australian friend over and you two can liven up this thread as well.

I’m kidding, of course.

[quote]grew7 wrote:

Fuck white shitbags.

[/quote]

Don’t be a shitbag.

Ahhh, reminds me of bootcamp.

It seems to me the only reason this would even be considered racist (which I don’t think it is) is becasue the adjective “white” got tossed in. If he had said, “Republican shitbag,” despite being more accurate, probably would have come across less spiteful. It’s not like he got called a honky or cracker. ha! I love those words.

Cracker shitbag. Sounds better. Seems to me this “white shitbag” also needs to quit being a pussy.

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Edders wrote:

Don’t you understand that the term “racist” was created to stop white people from discriminating against blacks? It has no power at all over black people who want to discriminate against whites. Or, any societal discrimination against white people.

Well, thank you, Edders, for that refreshingly blatant but by no means unexpected oversimplification.

I remember you from the Tiki Barber thread. Why don’t you call your Australian friend over and you two can liven up this thread as well.

I’m kidding, of course.[/quote]

LOL…of course I oversimplify. Any good political strategist will tell you that the best way to make a point to the masses is to oversimplify.

But, if you look over the past 50 years it’s easy to see what direction that race relations are headed.

It’s called an “over correction.”

Simple maybe but true.

We all wish we lived in a “colorless” society. That is, until we want to insult “white shitbags”. Then we can point out race. We must all react with revulsion and outrage when anyone “of color” is insulted, even in mild terms.

And I’d say that in this instance the Professor WAS the person with power and WAS in a position to practice racism on this protestor.

Where are all the people who want to protect our rights from Bush and his gang of thugs? What about this guy’s right to protest, right to free speech? OH! I guess since you don’t agree with it then it’s not really what you care about. If this was an anti-war rally and the insultor was white and the insultee was black (or at least liberal), then we’d have an issue.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
grew7 wrote:

Fuck white shitbags.

Don’t be a shitbag.

Ahhh, reminds me of bootcamp.

It seems to me the only reason this would even be considered racist (which I don’t think it is) is becasue the adjective “white” got tossed in. If he had said, “Republican shitbag,” despite being more accurate, probably would have come across less spiteful. It’s not like he got called a honky or cracker. ha! I love those words.

Cracker shitbag. Sounds better. Seems to me this “white shitbag” also needs to quit being a pussy.[/quote]

Right! And if he was called a “liberal democrat”, it would have been a serious personal attack on his intelligence and character, which is as bad a personal attack as you can get.

But I prefer Cracker! That’s just funny!

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

Right! And if he was called a “liberal democrat”, it would have been a serious personal attack on his intelligence and character, which is as bad a personal attack as you can get.

But I prefer Cracker! That’s just funny!
[/quote]

We all know there is no worse offense that being called a ‘liberal democrat’.

[quote]DS 007 wrote:
We all wish we lived in a “colorless” society. That is, until we want to insult “white shitbags”. Then we can point out race. We must all react with revulsion and outrage when anyone “of color” is insulted, even in mild terms.

And I’d say that in this instance the Professor WAS the person with power and WAS in a position to practice racism on this protestor.

Where are all the people who want to protect our rights from Bush and his gang of thugs? What about this guy’s right to protest, right to free speech? OH! I guess since you don’t agree with it then it’s not really what you care about. If this was an anti-war rally and the insultor was white and the insultee was black (or at least liberal), then we’d have an issue. [/quote]

While this professor probably is an idiot, he hardly has the coercive power of a government.

So the reason the outrage is smaller is not that he is not a shitbag, but just a small insignificant shitbag.

Hope that explains it.

Now if he had called me a white shitbag I would probably have called him a black shitbag just to make things more interesting, but then again I am not very good with authority…

Or at least I was told so, by people that thought they were authorities while I thought they were not…

[quote]orion wrote:
Now if he had called me a white shitbag I would probably have called him a black shitbag just to make things more interesting…[/quote]

He shoulda just said, “I know you are, but what am I?”

Then, after a moment of confusion, the Professor Potty Mouth’s head would have exploded… like when Spock told those robots that he could only tell a lie.

[quote]orion wrote:

Now if he had called me a white shitbag I would probably have called him a black shitbag just to make things more interesting, but then again I am not very good with authority…

[/quote]

Not a good idea, since that would make you a worthless racist redneck and the poor professor a victim of your hatred.

Or haven’t you noticed how the student has been labelled “ignorant”, “pussy”, and I believe “douche” for defending himself with the exact same standard that a person with any other shade of skin might?

[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
orion wrote:

Now if he had called me a white shitbag I would probably have called him a black shitbag just to make things more interesting, but then again I am not very good with authority…

Not a good idea, since that would make you a worthless racist redneck and the poor professor a victim of your hatred.

Or haven’t you noticed how the student has been labelled “ignorant”, “pussy”, and I believe “douche” for defending himself with the exact same standard that a person with any other shade of skin might?[/quote]

Well that would have been kind of the reaction I would have been looking for, wouldn?t it?

I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

[quote]orion wrote:

Well that would have been kind of the reaction I would have been looking for, wouldn?t it?

I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…[/quote]

If I were being discriminated against on the basis of my skin color, particularly at the hands of a professor at a college I happen to attend, I would do everything in my power to draw attention to the fact. If a teacher thinks less of me because of my race, and he potentially has power over my future at my college, why the hell wouldn’t I stand up and begin pointing?
At what threshold would you admit “racism” since the all-powerful “N” word has no equivalent for you?

[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
orion wrote:

Well that would have been kind of the reaction I would have been looking for, wouldn?t it?

I would have not cried “racist!” afterwards though, because frankly “white shitbag” does not play in the same league as, f.E., nigger…

If I were being discriminated against on the basis of my skin color, particularly at the hands of a professor at a college I happen to attend, I would do everything in my power to draw attention to the fact. If a teacher thinks less of me because of my race, and he potentially has power over my future at my college, why the hell wouldn’t I stand up and begin pointing?
At what threshold would you admit “racism” since the all-powerful “N” word has no equivalent for you?[/quote]

Well,obviously I live in a country that is 99% white, so I do not have that much to say about racism.

I did have however have several professors who seriously disliked me for other reasons and I allways got straight A?s from them though I never was a straight A student.

Somehow being disliked by my professors allways worked for me.

It would have just been fun to show this prof his inner racist/hypocrite…

He probably would not like me either…

Anyway, as far as I know there is no real “racist” derogatory word for white people in the English language…

Cracker, whitebread?

Do you have any gut reaction to these words?

[quote]orion wrote:

Anyway, as far as I know there is no real “racist” derogatory word for white people in the English language…

Cracker, whitebread?

Do you have any gut reaction to these words?

[/quote]

Not even a little bit. Would it make a difference if I did have a gut reaction to them? Would that make the act of using them somehow inherently more despicable?

What if they had a “history”, would that increase the damage of the words? Would it make it o.k. for white people to say them to one another, but horrifying for a non-white person to use them in referring to a white person?

The whole idea of one word being more powerful or dangerous than another is very disturbing to me, as is the idea that one race can be discriminated against while another cannot.

[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
orion wrote:

Anyway, as far as I know there is no real “racist” derogatory word for white people in the English language…

Cracker, whitebread?

Do you have any gut reaction to these words?

Not even a little bit. Would it make a difference if I did have a gut reaction to them? Would that make the act of using them somehow inherently more despicable?

What if they had a “history”, would that increase the damage of the words? Would it make it o.k. for white people to say them to one another, but horrifying for a non-white person to use them in referring to a white person?

The whole idea of one word being more powerful or dangerous than another is very disturbing to me, as is the idea that one race can be discriminated against while another cannot.[/quote]

I agree with you in theory, but I just don`t feel it Dude…

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Fascinating post by vroom’s favorite law professor, UCLA’s First Amendment expert Eugene Volokh, on a situation up at Washington State University.

The post is here: The Volokh Conspiracy - -

The factual background, excerpted from the post (internal links omitted):

[i]The College Republicans organized an anti-illegal-immigration event, featuring a “24-foot, chain-link, cyclone fence, later established as a representation of a ‘Wall of Immigration.’” Professor John Streamas showed up, got into an argument with Dan Ryder, a College Republicans member, and in the process called him a “white shitbag.”

Ryder eventually filed a complaint alleging that Streamas subjected him to discriminatory harassment and intimidation, in violation of a university policy. The WSU report held that Prof. Streamas’s insult didn’t violate the policy, but noneteless condemned Prof. Streamas for “immature, intellectual unsophistiated and thoughtless conduct unbecoming any WSU employee and a member of the WSU faculty, in particular.” The university will apparently officially reprimand Prof. Streamas.[/i]

Now, I’m against speech codes generally – this particular code seems as bad as most, although this particular prosecution likely would fall under the “fighting words” exception of free speech in that it was a personally directed insult, and not a statement of general political belief that someone could find offensive. Given Professor Potty-Mouth would likely endorse speech codes generally, it seems he may be hoist by his own petard on this – though probably not with any lasting penalties.

More to chew on, from the WSU Center for Human Rights’ report on the incident:

The potty-mouthed Professor Steamas claims:

[i]Steamas claims:

that a person of color cannot be racist, by definition, because racism also defines a power differential that is not usually present when a person or color is speaking." [/i]

Professor Volokh’s thoughts on that claim, with which I entirely agree:

Yeah, right. He and others are redefining the term “racism” in a way that’s pretty far removed from its normal meaning – which is racial hostility – so as to give themselves a rhetorical break from the rules they’re imposing on others. And on top of that, he’s applying even his revised definition in a disingenuous way: Whatever may be “usually” so, there surely is a “power differential” between a professor of whatever race and a student of whatever race.[/quote]
I’m sick of black people calling whites raceist

[quote]Cunnivore wrote:
orion wrote:

Anyway, as far as I know there is no real “racist” derogatory word for white people in the English language…

Cracker, whitebread?

Do you have any gut reaction to these words?

Not even a little bit. Would it make a difference if I did have a gut reaction to them? Would that make the act of using them somehow inherently more despicable?

What if they had a “history”, would that increase the damage of the words? Would it make it o.k. for white people to say them to one another, but horrifying for a non-white person to use them in referring to a white person?

The whole idea of one word being more powerful or dangerous than another is very disturbing to me, as is the idea that one race can be discriminated against while another cannot.[/quote]

i agree. now that is raceism

[quote]orion wrote:
Anyway, as far as I know there is no real “racist” derogatory word for white people in the English language…

Cracker, whitebread?

Do you have any gut reaction to these words?

[/quote]

I feel the same way. It’s hard to get worked up over being called a derogatory word for the collection of ethnic groups which has had their figurative dick up the collective ass of the rest of the world for the last 500 years. The power differential thing does matter, whether any of us like it or not.

On another note, I think “unsophistiated” has something to do with an argument lacking deceptiveness or fallacious value.

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
The point is more a juxtaposition of Professor Potty-mouth’s tortured logic and the right of free speech than on your perception of the target’s character.

The College Republicans were engaging in political speech – Professor Potty-mouth wasn’t. Their speech is constitutionally protected – Professor Potty-mouth’s, in this instance, isn’t (fighting words exception). Yet this Prof is all about punishing/banning actual protected speech. And goes through some fairly convoluted logic as to why his “white shitbag” comment wasn’t racist and wouldn’t fall under the punishment/ban scheme he favors.

I disagree with most speech restrictions, and I don’t think Professor Potty-mouth deserves to be fired – but he does deserve to be put forth as a hypocrite. And the idea that political speech should be punished because some people find it offensive is a dangerous one.[/quote]

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

Who’s the hypocrite now?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

Right! And if he was called a “liberal democrat”, it would have been a serious personal attack on his intelligence and character, which is as bad a personal attack as you can get.

But I prefer Cracker! That’s just funny!

We all know there is no worse offense that being called a ‘liberal democrat’.[/quote]

I disagree. One could have been called a born again Christian fundamentalist.

With a drinking habit.

And an Oedipus complex.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:

Potty mouth. I like that.

What did Bush say about that reporter when he thought the mike was off?

I didn’t see you or any other republicans blush or act offended.

And when Cheney said “fuck you” on the congress floor. I didn’t see any of those very religious nutjobs blush or act offended.

[/quote]

I don’t remember many liberal democrats being shocked or offended when Hillary Rodham called Paul Fray a “fucking Jew bastard,” either.

Then again, there are some issues about the modifyer “Jew.” It’s not clear what she was trying to imply… :wink: