Guys, I am so confused. My wife has ploy cystic ovarian syndrome. that is where there are litlle bead like cycts on her uteru, and it is linked to insulin resistance and diabetes. And it also messes up a womans hormone levels. So naturally the side effects are:fat accumaltion that is hard to lose, hirsuitism (especially on the face) and a hard time getting preganant. Well as we were searching for help on the hirsuitim front, another expert suggested she try Vitex (Agnus-Castus), becuase he said it boosts progesterone and DECEARSES TESTOSTERONE LEVELS!! But here, Biotest is gonna release Vitex as a natural type of Clomid supp, to increase test levels and decrease estrogen levels. Did this guy give us the wrong info? But to be fair on him, after he recommended Vitex to her, I checked out that GNC mag they have, and they recommend Vitex to woman to boost progestrone and decrease test. lvels. I also did an internet search, and the hits on Vitex are always woman related. is it that in men, Vitex would increase test levels and decrease estrogen, but in woman it has the opposite effect? Didnt Tim also say, that this new natural clomid supp would also have an effect of increasing a mans ejactulate?
dude, i guess what happens is that the progesterone might act in a type of homeostatic way i.e. decrease testosterone in women and increase testosterone in men? i might be talking out of my butt though.
I was about to post the same question. I did a little reasearch and I got basically the same information. I hope it does have some positive effects though because it is dirt cheap.
TC,Brock,JMB,Chris what’s the scoop? How can it boost test in men and progesterone in women?
Well, I’m no guru in this area but I do know a few things, most of them passed on to me by Tim himself. First of all, Vitex is clearly a gonadotropic secretagogue, which means it makes “a man more of a man, and a woman more of a woman, hormonally speaking.” Vitex absolutely increases T in men.
Tim also admits he wasn’t aware of some of the science behind it in his earlier comments. With the new info he and Biotest have, they’re very excited about the supplement. This is not just a “looks good on paper” situation either. A few T-mag staffers have been taking it for over a month and all report increased libido, increased seminal volume, increased oily skin, increased irritability, decreased body fat without dieting, and increased muscle mass while going off androgens. Yep, they’re a bunch of lean, muscular, pissed off, horny, big load shootin’ bastards! Hmm, wish I would’ve volunteered to be a lab wabbit.
Anyway, Tim will likely have more info in a future BTS column and maybe Brock or Bill can chime in here too.
Bill, Brock, come on and chime in on this discussion and help clear some confusion up on this. Like I said before, I did a little research regarding my wife (she has PCOS and therefore suffers from the effects of excess fat accumulation, from the insulin insensitivity, and hirsuitism on the face, from excess androgen levels), and I was referred to Vitex from another BB supp expert and also found it in the GNC mag, that this herb increases progesteron levels and decreases test levels in females. So if it does that for females, how can it in males raise test levels and decrease estrogen? Can it be possible for it to raise progesterone and estrogen and decrease test levels in females and at the same time increase test levels and decrease estrogen levels in males?
Bill, Brock if the GNC mag and that other BB supp “expert” was wrong about Vitex being a chick supp, than what can a woman take, naturally & store bought, that can lower test, free test, and increase estrogen and progesterone in there bodies? This is a very imporatnt for females as in raising test and decresing estrogen in males.
What is a good brand of Vitex
How much does one need p/day to get the most bang for the buck? Does it need to be standardized? My wife suffers from an estrogen dominance (erratic periods) and only takes one cap/p/day (400mg) of the ground chaste berry (Vitex) and it makes her right on time. Of course this probably doesn’t apply to men. BTW, I think it was big of Tim to mention Vitex. He probably could have stuck it in a supplement and sold a truckload of it before we would have caught on!
Vitex doesnt decrease Test. it decreases Prolactin by increasing LH. DO a search and see all that u can learn.
Big Plug is correct(not that he needed to hear that).
Prolactin is a hormone produced by the anterior pituitary gland in both men and women. It is known as a gonadotrophic hormone as it affects the gonads (testes and ovaries). It also has an effect on other organs in the body.
In males, prolactin influences the production of testosterone and affects sperm production. In conditions where prolactin secretion is increased (hyperprolactinaemia), testosterone levels drop and sperm production is reduced or absent, resulting in male infertility.
prostate cancer patients should have there prolactin blood levels checked, as excess amounts of this hormone can promote prostate cancer cell proliferation and prevent successful treatment. There are similarities to breast and prostate cancer cells, and prolactin seems to be a common growth factor in these two cancers.
Women with high levels of prolactin have twice the risk of breast cancer, it would appear prudent for healthy women to lower their prolactin levels. Here are the standard laboratory reference ranges for blood prolactin levels (it was not stated if men should lower their level):
Female
- Non-pregnant 2.8 to 29.2 ng/ml
- Pregnant 9.7 to 208.5 ng/ml
- Postmenopausal 1.8 to 20.3 ng/ml
Male
- 2.1 to 17.7 ng/ml
Excessive secretion of prolactin - hyperprolactinemia - is a relative common disorder in humans.
Prolactin increases with age & exercise.
High levels of prolactin have been shown to reflect many depressive states. Excessive consumption of alcohol or use of other recreational drugs may cause sexual dysfunction, either by causing increased prolactin or decreased testosterone production (or both). Psychotropic agents may raise prolactin levels.
Pygeum reduces prolactin.
Zinc reduces prolactin.
Taking zinc without copper can cause a copper deficiency.
5-HTP reduces prolactin.
Vitamin B6 defeats the adverse effects of too much prolactin, the hormone that causes the prostate to enlarge. It also enhances your body’s ability to absorb Zinc.
Hmmm… lets see Zinc and Vitamin B6 lower Prolactin… Think I’ll refill my ZMA before I run out.
I just read an article that may be of some interest. Are the other ingredients in the new mix “Pygeum” & “Neetle Root”?
Swiss researchers R. Hartmann et al. demonstrate that extracts of pygeum (Pygeum africanum Kalkman, Rosaceae) and nettle root (Urtica dioica L., Urticaceae) partially blocked the action of two enzymes involved in the body’s production of dihydrotestosterone and estrogen. The in vitro (laboratory) study showed that both pygeum and nettle root extracts were effective in inhibiting these two enzymes (5alpha-reductase and aromatase) and that a combination of the two plant extracts was significantly more effective than either extract individually in blocking aromatase activity.
Both of these ingredients along with Saw Palmetto, stinging nettles, zinc, & pumpkin seed are used for relief of enlarged prostate (BPH).
50% of men will suffer from prostate problems in their life time. From 5 to 10% suffer in their 30s to 90% who are over 85.
EFAs(our old friend … flax oil) also helps.
Nettle increases libido and sexual performance in older people by uncoupling testosterone from binding sites in the blood. The problem is not lack of testosterone but increased binding with age. (I have read this several times They now think that with age “T” is not really lowered, but it becomes increasingly bound to serum globulins) nettles are also a natural diuretic.
I find all of this interesting and thought I’d post it… I hope some of you are interested as well, & I’m not just wasting space.
Exogenous(from out of the body)hormones (can you say "ROIDS)causes the glands to cease what production they have. Sex glands atrophy (shink) and become useless. Maca, by stimulating the pituitary itself, makes the body’s own glands produce more natural hormone. Specifically, the herb stimulates the pituitary-hypothalamus axis of the brain with four alkaloids resulting in an increase in the production of endocrine gland hormones such as are secreted by ovaries, testes, adrenals, pancreas, thyroid and so forth. The herb has no direct hormonal effects in itself.The effect is more energy and vitality for men and women, especially those aging and past their prime. Post or peri-menopausal women who have been on HRT may usually take Maca instead. Amazingly enough, it also seems to work for women who have had hysterectomies. Women who take Maca report less fatigue, greater energy, less stress, more bone density, and relief from hot flashes and night sweats. Men who have potency problems find relief from that as well.
In animal studies, Maca resulted in multiple egg follicle maturation in females and higher sperm production and motility rates in males.
Maca is quite rapid in effect. Onset is usually within 4 days to a week and sometimes faster.
Anecdotally, Maca seems to have many other benefits in the brain. Cases of Parkinsonism and even Tardive Dyskinesis have improved dramatically. These results need to be confirmed in studies. Maca is a food staple for some (I should note that use is not recommended for Men with high PSA levels or prostate cancer, and women with breast or other hormonal related cancers).
Estrogen seems to be a signal to the pituitary gland in the brain. Based on estrogen levels, the pituitary turns on or off testosterone production. The higher the estrogen levels, the lower the amounts of testosterone will be produced.Chrysin basically reduces estrogen levels by cutting down on its conversion from testosterone.(tests were quoted as saying blood serum “T” increased by 30%). This was in Trib 500 wasn’t it? Can anyone @ T-mag tell me why the new formula doesn’t use it? I have seen Chrysin with added LPC to enhance absorption. Any idea what LPC is? The following is product hype:
Chrysin is combined with some of the other naturally occurring superflavones, such as dihydroxyflavone and quercetin, the effective blocking of aromatase is dramatically enhanced–so much so that it is almost completely inhibited. Chrysin also contains substances that even enhance and increase testosterone production, as well as supporting the anabolic pathways involved in muscle development and growth.
More to come…
Another additive that assists Chrysin because of it’s poor absortion is a pepper extract (piperine).
Now more on Saw Palmetto. Hormonal changes that take place as men age are responsible for BPH and an understanding of these changes and how they effect the prostate gland will help to explain why Saw Palmetto is so effective at relieving BPH. As men age levels of testosterone decrease, but levels of some other hormones actually increase. The hormones that increase are FSH, LH, estrogen, and prolactin. One other culprit, an enzyme called 5-alpha-reductase, which converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is increased as well. Though levels of testosterone drop, the testosterone that is present begins to concentrate in the prostate gland–inefficient removal of the testosterone combined with increasing levels of 5-alpha-reductase results in inordinately high levels of DHT, a much more potent hormone than its precursor. This in turn causes the prostate gland to swell. Estrogen seems to inhibit the removal of DHT, complicating the situation further and prolactin is known to be an aggravating factor as well.
Saw Palmetto inhibits DHT binding to cellular receptors, inhibits the action of 5-alpha-reductase, and helps block the action of estrogen. The net of these actions is a track record in reducing the severity of BPH in mild to moderate cases that is better than finasteride (Proscar), the most commonly prescribed medication for BPH in the US, and a specific 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor (it is interesting to note that while Saw Palmetto is not nearly as strong a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor as Proscar, its generality of action makes it more effective than Proscar in mild to moderate BPH - this seems to be typical of herbal medicines.
Since the majority of men will have prostate problems, which result from/in many difficulties in general male health could T-mag come up with an article… I know it’s “Mens Healthish” but this is a real issue, and it does have consequences resulting in low “T”, The dredded “C” and sterility and even the inability to “get wood”. It is suggested that any male over 40 should be taking Saw P. Any input from the scolars at Bio-test would be a great public service!
As mentioned: testosterone is converted by an enzyme called 5 alpha reductase into another form of testosterone called dihydrotestosterone or DHT, for short. DHT is the androgen hormone that triggers hair loss in androgenetic alopecia (In both men & women). When hair follicles that are genetically programmed to be receptive to DHT receive the DHT message over a long enough period of time, the follicle begins to produce less hair. Many of the above listed herbs reduce conversion of “T” to DHT. It appears that they are beneficial, not only to prevent conversion of “T”, but from binding as well… The benefits are pretty impressive, less conversion to DHT & estrogen, improved prostate health and more hair (likely on both head and hands).
Joe, I realy have nothing to say about vitex, I do not know enough to advise, I would just like to say I hope all turns out well w/your wife. take care of her. peace
If you wife has PCOD and diabetes, she is
playing with fire using anything other
than her MD suggest. I am guessing he wants to use Clomid? I would not do anything other than what he/she says and I will not help you do anything else either.
Vitex is an LH increasing agent. Clomid is
also. Vitex (unlike Clomid) seems to
decrease prolactin levels (this is a good
thing in bb’ers for sure as increases in
prolactin can lead to a rare type of
gyno…probably/posibly the gyno the occassional trenbolone user experiences but
I am speculating here for sure).
Go get a physiology text and see what LH
does in men and women (not the same thing,
that is for sure).
In a nutshell, LH is the hormone that
regulate testosterone secretion in men.
Vitex increases LH. Do the math. Now
FSH may increase testosterone levels in
men by inducing maturation of the Leydig
cells in your nuts and Vitex does decrease
FSH. But fuck, it’s a trade off I would
do for sure, because while FSH may help
a little, LH is the big kehuna here without
ANY doubts at all!!!
Also prolactin tends to inhibit both LH and
FSH so if you ace the prolactin, you get
more LH and FSH. Vitex does this quite
well. Prolactin can also directly inhibit
spermatogenesis so Vitex is probabky a help there too.
I am guessing that Vitex will have an effect
of a hybrid between HCG and Clomid. HCG
has almost no FSH type effect and a lot of
LH effect.
So Vitex, even though it is known as a female’s
herb, has a profound effect in men.
Let’s talk about women and why they would
use Vitex.
Estrogen (in women) works in a POSITIVE
feedback loop to increase LH. LOWER ESTROGEN = MORE LH!!! LH is what causes follicle maturation and ovulation to occur (along with FSH).
Progesterone is primarily made in the corpus
luteum of the follicle (in the ovary during
the “luteal phase” of the menstrual cycle).
So if you give a woman Vitex, LH increases
which will stimulate the Graffian follicle
to maturity and increase progesterone.
Men don’t have ovaries and thus, Vitex won’t
increase progesterone in men for this reason.
Estrogens are also produced in the ovaries.
LH (and FSH more so) will also effect this.
Men don’t have ovaries.
Vitex will not increase estrogen in men unless
the extra testosterone secreted by using
Vitex leads to more aromatization into
estrogens.
Anovulatory women can sometimes benefit from
Vitex for the same reason they do with Clomid
or HCG (or HMG). Clomid is better than Vitex
(in theory) for infertile women because it
acts as an anti-estrogen at the pituitary
and will cause FSH levels to rise allowing for
maturation of the ova (you need both FSH and
LH for optimal fertility…Vitex doesn’t
work optimally but it does help in something
like 70% of the cases).
Just as a heads up, LH seems to regulate
the conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone
and FSH seems to regulate THE AROMATIZATION
of androgens to estrogens in the follicle.
Additionally…as estrogen levels rise, so
does FSH while LH decreases. As estrogen
levels drop, FSH decreases and LH increases.
This might explain why Vitex inhibits FSH.
Finally, Vitex is merely one of the many
ingredients in “M”, Biotest’s new Clomidesque
goodie. The other stuff is in there for
many reasons 
You can use regular Vitex if you are in a hurry
but it will be worth the wait for my new goodie
for sure!!!
Brock