T Nation

Update: EDT

Just a few quick questions concerning EDT.

Has anyone done the program with free compound exercises instead of the prescribed machines?

Has anyone done this program using 3-4sec eccentrics?

Thanks

I’ve done EDT with compound mov. in the past. I works great but it’s unlikely you’ll be able to do let’s say 60 reps in 15-20 minutes of 70% of your deadlift or squat due to cardiovascular implications…

As far as tempo/som goes, the goal of EDT is just to add more and more work so it’s not imperative to maintain a strict 4 seconds eccentric. It won’t hurt you either…

-LPdSB

I gave EDT a go for a few weeks with an upper body workout consisting of chins, dips, incline dumbbell presses, and cable rows. The results were terrific! I didn’t pay a whole lot of attention to tempo or eccentrics, just your average training pace (around 2-0-2 if you’re in need of specific numbers). This Monday I’ll be incorporating the same approach with full-body workouts based on the “Holiday Fat Loss” article in the latest Staley newsletter.

I’ve done it with compound exercises, but not free compound exercises. (Dips where I was locked into a machine, for example.) To tell you the truth, I think using free compounds would be just asking for an injury, even using the lighter EDT weights. Compound exercise require a lot more in the way of technical execution than machine/isolation exercises do, and I have to think that as your form breaks down towards the end of the time segment, you’d run a real risk of messing yourself up, especially with an exercise like squats or deadlifts.


As for the tempo question, I don’t see any reason why a longer eccentric wouldn’t work. All it would do is make you get fewer reps during the time period, but a lot of people (like myself and Nate Dogg) have done EDT cycles using either more (in my case) or fewer (in Nate’s case) reps than what Staley recommends and still done very well with it. I think that the key is simply to use a lighter weight with consistent time controls and rep progressions…the actual number of reps can vary tremendously without impacting the program’s effectiveness.

Hey Chris, are you going to incorporate any cardio into the fat loss version? Staley and Cosgrove didn’t specify anything in the newsletter but I thought with only three days of weights there would be room to squeeze some in, maybe a la Berardi’s Winning Formula.

Also, what type of diet are you following? I noticed Cosgrove only takes in aminos post-workout, and I’m assuming he’s talking about Nitromine as he raved about these in an interview w. Dr. Serrano. Do you have the nutritional breakdown of that FiberSmart supplement? I can’t seem to find it on any of the sites where it is sold. I’m thinking of making my own concoction as I have separate psyllium, guar gum and flaxseed.

Monty, I know Staley’s cardio recommendations for the EDT Fat Loss Phase are basically for speeding recovery on your off days. If you’re referring to Berardi’s post-training cardio protocol, let me tell you now that the LAST thing you want to be doing following an EDT session is 20-30 minutes of cardio! At least for me, I just want the hell out of the gym!

Anyway, my diet is basically high protein (mostly lean meats) and vegetables. Some nuts and seeds… nothing too complicated. I should have a photo up on the forum anytime now hopefully, with the help of our good friend Patricia!

Oh yeah, and the link you’re looking for regarding the FiberSmart nutritional breakdown is:
www.renewlife.com/ products/fiber.htm
But that stuff is pretty expensive, besides being nothing special. Use ground flax seeds instead.

Much appreciated, Chris. I’m not planning on getting it, but I just wanted to know how much fiber it had per serv…3 g. is not very much. I try to get at least double that with every meal. I’ve just been doing 1 tsp. guar gum, 1 tsp. psyllium and 1 tbsp. ground flax…this gives me 6 g. and is way cheaper than FiberSmart.

I also wasn’t really planning on doing cardio post-EDT but rather on the off-days, alternating between low-intensity and HIIT. I am generally very sedentary with the exception of my workouts, so I thought I might add just a little more exercise into the routine. I do recall that when I added the cardio intervals to Meltdown after week two, I felt totally fried virtually every day, so I’ll have to ponder this. Not really much fat to lose, but a couple unplanned eating fiascos set back my progress so I’m just playing catch-up right now.

I did EDT protocol work for upper body and Ian King phases II-IV for 9 weeks. Did bench, upright rows, shoulder press, pull ups, all freeweights, 2X week, and quad/ham split. Really good results, volume/intensity take care of themselves. Hell, excellent results. Strength and mass gains all over. You always know exactly how much you have to do. Didn’t superset or do A1/A2 protocols, though; Also didn’t get this incredible soreness everyone talks about.

Y ah I would caution against the comp movements. I Injured my back doing squats when I tried this. Near the end of the time limit I just wasn’t concentrating on good form by that time becaus eit was so draining.
:slight_smile: Groove

Cool, I’ll give free compound exercises a shot using 4 sec eccentrics. I’ll avoid overtaining and injuries by following Staley recommendation in his ‘reps and sets’ article. In this article he suggest ending the set after a 10% reduction in speed. Obviously I’ll never know the exact %, so instead I’ll just terminate the set after a concentric decrease in speed has been noticed.

Thanks

I think you could definately get away with doing EDT and compound upper body exercises. In fact, it’d probably be really effective.

I don’t know about doing a hypertrophy EDT program for the lower body, particularly doing the big lifts (squat, dead, Olympics). As everyone has mentioned, fatigue toward the end results in way to much technical breakdown, which heightens the risk of injury greatly.

HOWEVER, employing EDT in a strength-protocol fashion (check Staley’s article on EDT for strength) with the lower body movements, using lower reps and higher rest periods, would probably work. I know many people think that working with a high percentage of maximum increases the chances for injury, but in my own experience I disagree. I’ve found that any training injuries I’ve incurred were due to high rep training, and usually derived from technical breakdown at the end of a set. With lower rep, high intensity sets, I find I’m better able to concentrate on perfect form. Anyhow, enough ramblin’, just my $0.02

yes, I ‘m doing it with renegade exercises, odd lifts en most of the stuff from ‘exerc. you’ve never tried before’. No machines. I’m changing the exerc. on a regular basis, like the West Side guys do, plus using different rep ranges,from singles to higher reps, so it is like Pavel’s Russian Bear training’. Keep some reserve in the beginning en build up the volume. No need for aerobics.
greetings
stefan