T Nation

TRT + Wellbutrin - Too Much Dopamine?


#1

Hi! I am 24 y old, always have been natural)

About one year ago i had a very bad crash...(the told me it is depression)

I had extremely mental fog, anxiety and wasn´t able to work or to concentrate. I spent weeks in bed...

I refused to take SSRI´s. They put me on Wellbutrin an i had to do therapie.

I took 300mg Wellbutrin for about 9 month. After 4 month i started to work again, i fixed up all problems i had to get ride of "depression" (cool job, nice gf,and so on)

Therapie was useless, and i never felt that big advantage of wellbutrin. I was anxious and often couldn´t work more than 2 hours a day (i love my job). I want to be sucessful and want to have a normal life. I started doing some research...

I checked my T-levels ....Total T 240, several measures - low.

I started TRT now. 125mg of test E e7d additional to the 300mg of Wellbutrin.

Yesterday was my second shot. Today in the morning i took the Wellbutrin and had a coffee (bad idea. It was like being on cocain. Cleaned my flat for 5 hours. I feel like i had a liter of coffee or worse. Like adrenalin would rise all time. Could it be that the wellbutrin and TRT start cause too much dopamine? Any ideas?

I read on this board for several weeks now. I would be very thankful for some help. Sry for the bad english.


#2

I watched myself the last couple of days…

I think it´s anxiety that causes all this.

Before my first injection my estradiol was about 33 pg/mL. (which is in the normal range)

Could it be possible that 2*125 mg injections made it rise?

(The first 2 days after my first injection i felt great…“alpha-like” no anxiety…)

After that anxiety returned…and the stuff i discribed above


#3

Please read these stickies, they will help you understand. This will take time.

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones.
  • protocol for injections
  • thyroid basics - if low body temperatures or low iodine intake

We need lab results, in list form WITH lab ranges.

TT
FT
E2
prolactin
LH/FSH [from before TRT, too late now]
IGF-1 [evaluate growth hormone - GH]
AM Cortisol [at 8AM please]
TSH
fT3
fT4
rT3 [ rT3 can be elevated by accidents, stress etc and this blocks fT3]
fasting cholesterol [can be too low]
CBC
hematocrit
ALT/AST [liver function]

Car wreck crash may have damaged your pituitary gland and if so, there could be problems with multiple pituitary controlled hormone systems.
Or simply a depressive crash? What led up to that. Time-line please.

TRT increases metabolic rate and that can be a problem if thyroid or cortisol levels are low.

Are you able to sleep OK. Do you snore and how has that changed?

Weight gain?
Muscle loss?

You can evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures:

  • when you first wake up, should be 97.7 - 9.8, higher is good too. 97.3 is way too low
  • also check mid-afternoon for 98.6F/37C

Do you always use iodized salt? - time line.
Do you get cold easily? - time line

Where are you located? - affects your treatment options

TRT: Please break up injections to twice a week. You can inject SC with #29 50iu 1/2" insulin needles can can inject SC too. See the protocol for injections sticky. You probably need anastrozole to manage E2 levels and your therapeutic target should be 22pg/ml. Yes, your E2 will be too high. You TT=240 and E2=33 is a bad sign, indicating that your liver might not have been clearing E2 properly. With very low TT, we expect to see low E2, so E2=33 is an indication that something is odd.

Please respond to questions and requested info and double check that you got it all.


#4

Thanks a lot for your time and help. I did LH, fsh, prolactin, shbg, e2 and tt before going on t replacement. They all have been in order. (Thats what the doc said) I ll do all the labs u told me at my next appointment. I ll see my doc in the end of august.

I started splitting the doses right now and feel better. I still do i.m. because i want to see differenc in labs from i.m. to sub.

And i had many accidents in my youth, including drug abuse.

But the crash i was talking about was just mentally. I got nervous, had many extra systols, thought i ll die because of my hart.
My education fucked up, my realationship too. Then i felt ill. I was lying in bed all day. I had anxiety. Brain fog. Driving a car was impossible, work impossible. To wash the dishes was the same feeling than running 40 miles.
I couldent sleep or think clearly. I was in a horrible depression.

The wellbutrin did not that much for me. In the end i pulled myself out of shit and got my life in order. But i never felt like bevore.

I actually work out 6 times a week (2 cardio days) i am built well actually. Veins on Abs… I try to follow nutrition recomendations of john meadows.

I ll take my temperature. Thyroid and liver etc has actually been in order. But i ll check that once more and give u actual numbers.


#5

I live in vienna ( capital of austria)
i only eat iodized salt
Its nearly impossible to get new muscle for years. But maybe its genetics limit?

Depression start: june 2014 (slowly, many symtoms 1/2 year before)
Unable to work in sept 2014 - feb 2015
Diagnosed in oktober
Wellbutrin 300 mg from november 14 until now
Nearly no sleep from sept 14-feb15
Sleeping well now ( 5 htp helped me) now testosterone seems to improve a lot
Not snorring
I am not getting ill so easy
Joint pain bevore test, a lot…
Muscle pain (rib cage especially)
Thinking that i ll collapse /dizzy --> decreased with trt.
Very nervous (without reason) --> t seems to help, but not on all days
In the moment only working out 1 time a week + 2 times cardio
I have to get my shoulder in order. Its fucked up :confused:


#6

I got nearly all the labs. It´s not so easy over here to get them. rT3 is impossible. Nobody does it. Labs from start to now:

08.06.2015
Protocol: 300mg Wellbutrin (already a half year into it)

TEST: 3.00-8.27 / 2.57*
E2: 11.9-39.8 / 33.5
Prolactin: 2.5-17.0/ 6.3
FSH: 1.5-20.4 /5.4
LH 1.5-9.3 / 6.8
fT4 0.89-1.76 / 1.12
T3 (total) 60-181.0 / 83
TSH 0.4-4.00 / 2.07
Feeling: Anxious, shaking, depressed, fog, Wellbutrin seems to do nothing for me.

28.08.2015 (2 days after injection, Thursday)
Protocol: (62,5mg Test every Tuesday and Friday, 300mg Wellbutrin)

TEST: 3.00-8.27 / 7.9
E2: 11.9-39.8 / 28.2
fT4 0.89-1.76 / 1.13
T3 (total) 60-181.0 /59*
TSH 0.4-4.00 / 1.38
DHEA-S 4.6-16.10 / 11.5
Erythrozyten 4.5-5.9 / 5.04
Hämoglobin 14-17.8 / 14.9
Hematocrit: 42.6% (40-52)
GGT < 60 / 19
BUN 16.0 <23 / 16
Kreatinin <1.3 / 1.04

feeling better. Libido increased. still anxious. But better mood.

16.11.2015 (on Injectionday)
Protocol: (62,5mg Test every Tuesday and Friday, get off Wellbutrin 12 Sept 2015)

TEST: 3.00-8.27 / 9.85*
E2: 11.9-39.8 / 45.3*
Erythrozyten 4.5-5.9 / 5.48
Hämoglobin 14-17.8 / 16.2
Hematocrit: 49.2% (40-52)
GGT < 60 / 29
BUN 16.0 <23 / 26*
Kreatinin <1.3 / 1.29

Feeling: better - depression nearly gone. Anxiety problems stay. Concentrationproblems and problems to work as much as i used to do. Maybe needs time…wish i had more energy and coud work more. I worry a lot about health.

20 November: Changing to 60mg e3d + 0,25mg Adex e3d (feels better, no labs yet)

1.12.2015
Cortisol AM: 2300-12700 / 10137
Waking up temperature: 96,26F =35.7C
Afternoon: 96,8F = 36C

I feel better since doing e3d and adex. Adex improved Libido and dropped anxiety noticeable. I had a lot of mental and physical stress the last month (money problems, a lot of joint problems. I ll have to do a shoulder surgery and so on) This problems will go on and might are the reason why I donâ??t recover fully?
I also had anxiety problems and was dizzy all for the whole last year. 2 Month ago I had some panic attacks. I am still anxious. But since adding Adex it became better.
I still feel like no being able to work as much as I used to be. I have social anxiety (very social job) and if things are new or different it can be too much for me pretty easy. My anxiety is especially related to my heart. I am afraid of getting a hartattack or something like that very often without no reason.

A strange thing: My fingers are shaking for over 1 year now (started before depression) Then I went on medication. They told me: itâ??s the wellbutrin causing this. But it was there before. The shaking is there constantly. I am off the Wellbutrin 3 month now and they still are shaking. MRI is normal. Neurological everything is ok. Maybe related to hormones?

I changed my diet one month ago. Paleo. I do one or two cheatingdays on the weekend. I also drink on weekends to calm down . But I think I should stop totally.


#7

I am also on Wellbutrin to boost dopamine, but only 150.

After being on Clomid for a while, after feeling great, I started to get anxiety and panicky kind of moments that were extremely troubling. Looking back, I am guessing that it could be related to the skyrocketing Estrogen levels.

I don’t notice any adverse side effects on Wellbutrin, but I do absolutely feel the side effects- which include anxiety- from high estradiol.


#8

Your body temperature suggests hypothyroidism.
fT4 0.89-1.76 / 1.13
T3 (total) 60-181.0 /59*
TSH 0.4-4.00 / 1.38

T3 is LOW. You are not converting T4–>T3 effectively.
fT3 labs would be useful, as that is the active hormone.
I expect that fT3 must be low.

"T4 is converted into the more active T3 by the deiodinase system (D1, D2, D3) in multiple tissues and organs, but especially in the liver, gut, skeletal muscle, brain and the thyroid gland itself. D3 converts T3 into an inactive form of thyroid hormone in the liver."

I think that you should ask to have a trial of T3 medications. <<<<<<<<<<<<
If you feel better, you then know something about why you were not.
I don’t think that taking T4 would be helpful.

Possibly there are some toxins involved. Bromides or fluorenes. Those might be displaced and excreted by taking large doses of iodine. It would be very important to have selenium in your diet for that. See the thyroid basics sticky.

Wellbutrin does have stimulant effects and with thyroid problems, your body may not have been able to keep up to that pace.

Please take a B-complex multi-vitamin that lists zinc, iodine+selenium that does not have any iron. Avoid iron fortified foods.

E2=28 is not optimal. Increase adex dose by a factor of 28/22

You might feel more balanced with some more EFA’s in your diet.
fish oil, flax seed meal/oil, nuts


#9

Thanks KS Man!

Thats exactley how it feels. Beenig stimulated but body cant deal with it.

I also experience a lot of joint pain. (getting more and more problems with my joints, but i dont workout too hard; no push exercises at all)

I use zinc (50mg) already. 7 g of fish oil (2100mg epa&dha) 400mg magnesium.

I ll add B vitamins and the other supplements that you recommended to me.

I ll do fT3 and the other thyroid labs again to be sure. I also will try to do labs for the poisons that u told if it is possible.

My questions. (and thx for your time again)

1)Any ideas where the finger shaking could be from?

2)Can i do anything to be more resistant to stress? Maybe add HCG?

3)I have extrasystoles often. (Cardiologist tells everything is ok) Coud this come from the thyroid problem?

4)Joint pain, any ideas, except e2 too low? (E2 =45 before 0,5mg Adex/Week) now = ?

5)Should i add more fish oil?


#10

Your fish oil intake should be OK.

Do not overload on zinc.

I think that you have a general nervous system problem. Not really in my sphere of experience. Again, I would look for possible toxins. Is heavy metal exposure possible? The one thing that really stands out is the thyroid issues that I discussed earlier.

Have you had glucose tested?
Do you have any food cravings?


#11

Thanks. I didnt answer for a longer Time, but i want to share my latest experience.

I use the following protocol now, and it seems to be the best so far. I am still not perfect but there is so much quality of life back…

62,5mg Test E e3d
0,25 mg Arimidex e3d
250 mg HCG e3d

I had shoulder surgery. It is getting better, but my other joints are driving me crazy

I have pain nearly everywhere, and i dont think it is related to östrogen. Because there are no signs of low oestrogen. But i will do labs soon…

I started running TB 500 und BPC 157 and if you are interessted in i would do another log to share my experience.


#12

Aching joints are sign of low E2

Please edit/save your post of Dec 15 to recover formatting so it can be read.

What have you done about your thyroid and low body temperatures?