TRT Guy, I Lost 30 Pounds of Muscle During Pandemic. Blasting Make Sense?

mnben87 · April 19, 2022, 8:50pm

According to your first graph, I am below the 50th percentile for TT vs dose. I am actually at the mean of the 2.5th percentile and the 50th percentile. My TT was 4700 ng/dL on 875 mg/wk test.

But I am also pulling my blood work as close to in the middle of my pinning schedule. I pin EOD in the mornings, so if I did an injection on Wednesday morning, I’ll pull my labs Thursday morning. I am assuming this data was once a week injections and pulling blood at trough. My response is worse than the 25th percentile.

I take it this means, I am probably around the 10th-20th percentile for my response to Testosterone (I take Test E).

Would you agree that as far as gains and risk goes that average level of TT and FT is a pretty good measuring stick? So if two guys both reach an average 5000 ng/dL TT that their gains and their overall risk would be about the same if similar genetics even if one is taking 500 mg/wk and the other 1000 mg/wk?

Maybe this is why I haven’t been as impressed with my Test blasts as others?

To @e_loo, I would take others advise here. Just stick to what you are on. If looking for an edge, I would consider HGH to get you to the top of the range. I am not sure how old you are, but I am 34, and I am not convinced deviating from my TRT any longer is worth it. If I was going to do more, I think I would look into HGH as an alternative to using more AAS. It cost a lot more though.

e_loo · April 19, 2022, 8:54pm

March 7th, 2022

Testosterone, Total 1,117 ng/dL
Estradiol 62 pg/mL

We dont think the total test is accurate because I screwed up and did the full 1ml rather than dividing it in half. And blood was drawn maybe too close yo my injection. I usually run mid 800s to lower 900’s

I just got a new uro, she is very sharp. She’s got me on .5 of arimedex to get the estradiol down. Old uro had me on hcg, but she wants to hold off on that for the time being

tareload · April 19, 2022, 9:00pm

Good summary! You are still pretty young and typically the “younger” dudes will have better testosterone elimination (liver clearance, lymphatic activity, etc).

Given your statement in bold, yes that’s about all we can conclude. I would agree.

tareload · April 19, 2022, 9:09pm

mnben87 · April 19, 2022, 9:09pm

Interesting. Older dudes getting them higher levels and all the gains haha. At least something to look forward to as I age, maybe my average level on 50 mg EOD will make it up to 1200 ng/dL instead of the 1000 ng/dL it is at. My gym bros that are natties (but have done enough research that they are at the peak of the dunning krueger mountain), are usually in disbelief at my “low” numbers.

tareload · April 19, 2022, 9:10pm

Yes, to your point it’s the older dudes that have to watch out even more messing themselves up on the TOT fun.

tareload · April 19, 2022, 9:21pm

Way to go. Get in, try it out, and Get out while you are still young.

e_loo · April 19, 2022, 9:59pm

Mnben87: I’m turning 66 end of May. I was a client of the late great Phil Hernon, he taught me to put on muscle and get lean at the same time.

So I’m doing one of the workouts he gave me and following his nutrition protocol. I’ll just stick w what the Uro tells me and do the damn hard work. Thanks so much for your comments and help!

tareload · April 21, 2022, 2:32pm

BTW, been meaning to share this with you:

As much as we can’t seem to see eye to eye our case histories and experiences are interestingly similar. Curious why you went off AAS once you had your diagnosis?

Nowadays guys would be going to “anti-aging” clinics using this diagnosis as medical cover to allow AAS use under medical supervision with legal Rx:

Notice the AAS administered in the two case reports.

Bauber · April 21, 2022, 5:59pm

I definitely carried more than 30 lbs of muscle in my good ole days.

=D

Bauber · April 21, 2022, 6:00pm

Pretty much where I am. TRT for life at 35 after 10 years or so of heavier use.

Andrewgen_Receptors · April 21, 2022, 6:18pm

I think you are by far one of the exceptions though, what I was getting at is that most people will likely put on 30lbs muscle, but then you get into distribution curves and people like yourself are on the far-end of that spectrum =)

tareload · April 21, 2022, 6:38pm

I believe I hit 245 lb under 10% BF after recomp. So that would be just over +30 lb lbm gain (~33 lb) after strict cut. But I think you are pretty accurate here since it requires nailing everything else. Then of course my heart told me to stop :-).

Highest I ever went in any short of sustained fashion was <=150 mg/week TC + <=160 mg/week ND. (19 weeks).

RT_Nomad · April 21, 2022, 6:42pm

There is much more to the story. In retrospect, considering the redness in my cuticles appeared long before my diagnosis, maybe in March (1997) if I recall. I had just started a cycle for The Southern States Over-40 contest that was 12 weeks out.

As usual when I started the cycle I was gaining strength while slowly dropping weight for about 3 weeks in. Then my strength gains tapered off as I lost more fat. About 6 weeks in I noticed that I wasn’t getting as defined as I thought I should have been. I knew something wrong, I just didn’t know what.

I increased my steroids to a higher dose than I had ever done. I doubled the Parabolin and increased the Anavar by 20mg. Still losing fat, but not much improvement in definition. I was still fairly strong, but less than I had experienced in prior contests. A week out I knew I wasn’t near my best shape, but I had said I was going, so I did.

I was thinking I had some disease, like cancer, and figured this was my last hurrah. Looking at the competition that day of the contest I felt confident I could have been in the top 3 in my typical conditioning. I failed to place in the top five, but wasn’t surprised.

As usual, after the contest I got off the cycle. Two weeks before the contest I could squat 495lbs for 2 sets of 10 reps. Two weeks after the contest I squat 225lbs for 10 reps and my quads were on fire, and that ache remained for a week.

Every week thereafter I was noticeably weaker than I was the week before. I still had redness around my finger nails. By September (1997) I decided to see a doctor. I knew a novice bodybuilder who was a dermatologist. I was thinking the redness around my finger nails seemed to directly relate to my strength concerns. He might know what was going on.

When I saw the dermatologist he took a look at my finger tips and checked my deltoid strength (which was pitiful by then) and said he had a pretty good idea what the problem was. He sent me to get a blood test. My CPK was 18,000. He told me I had dermatamyositis. He referred me to a rheumatologist who started me on 80mgs/day of prednisone.

He never mentioned any anabolic steroids. But as I look back the anabolic steroids worked extremely well maintaining my strength while sick with dermatamyositis and training for the show. Actually unbelievable! As soon as I got off cycle my strength tanked extremely fast.

tareload · April 21, 2022, 6:57pm

Thanks for the summary. Unclear what triggered your initial onset but low dose AAS therapy (oxandrolone, stanozolol, 17-AA) have shown promise in managing symptoms of many AI/vascular diseases (lots of early literature). So to be fair, your use may have shifted Th1/Th2 immune cell balance that could have triggered response, but also may have delayed full symptom manifestation. Don’t know.

Of course this (AAS) is outside the standard of care with most in-network doctors today for AI issues. However, cash pay clinics in a certain state (especially), you can get stanozolol/oxandrolone very easily.

Big difference in GAINZ with 2.5 mg/day of stanozolol to manage symptoms (therapeutic) and maintain bare modicum of anabolic potential vs 50+ mg/day oxandrolone/stanozolol for the real BIGZ!

Decent book that’s mostly prophetic which reviews some of this:

Maybe check with your provider on 5-10 mg/day of oxandrolone (or 2.5 mg/day of stanozolol) intermittently to go with your TRT and see his/her/their/its/zeir reaction.