Well… there is this idea I’ve seen from some that jumping on gear automatically will turn Chihuahua into a Rottweiler . Several of the points have been covered. A buddy i lived with many years ago back in the day was using heavily. He said if the cops busted into the house he tell them they were mine. Just because I was looking the part and he wasn’t.
Sadly true and all to common. I’ve known a few pretty heavy users no bigger than me. Im convinced these people are a non trivial part of the reason anyone with even a modicum of muscle gets accused of using.
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Not in person. I’ve seen top natural competitors on screen. I’m not going to assume the top naturals are in fact natural in many cases though. Do you think they would look as good as say Ronnie before gear? I’m not trying to take away from these guys. They look great even for a full blown gear user.
I also caution people from making statements like nuckols does, because it lacks nuance. His statements might be true in certain circumstances, but they are not common circumstances (natty vs full blown ifbb cycles).
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Some actually do.
I suppose you had to compete in the 1970’s to appreciate the distinction. Nobody was doing HGH. There were no “monsters” that were stage ready.
HGH opened the possibilities for huge physiques that dwarf those before HGH.
I’ll say with the caveat of comparing completely natty to sauced to the gills the original statement is plausible.
Have you looked into the ffmi research? There they look at recreational lifters and compare natty and enhanced lifters. The ffmi differences are not very large. 2-3 points iirc (something like an average of 23 vs 25.5). That isn’t even close to double. Not ask gear use is comparable. I think if valuing longevity (safer compounds and low dosages), even a 50 percent increase is pushing it.
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And insulin, tren and pushing dosages much further. The nutrition, training andrecovery are better understood too. I think if HGH wasn’t around, the guys would still dwarf the old school guys.
How much muscle would you attribute just to the addition of HGH in the current open guys? It seems many pros consider it to add 5-10 pounds, but helps with leanness.
No, I haven’t. Truthfully I am going off of contest weights buzzing around my head from what I consider the golden era, 90’s to early 00’s, and comparing them with stage weights of top naturals in the WNBF.
On the plus side, all this talk is making me want to go bat shit crazy in the gym again. (Still lift, but for general fitness now.)
You are looking great in your avatar! You planning on another comp?
Thank you! It’s an old pic I put in there just to look like I still fit in on a bodybuilding site. 
No comps ever again.
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Physiques changed drastically and quickly when synthetic HGH was in full use. And yes insulin is necessary to get the full effect of the HGH.
It seems a lot of the recreational users drink, party, and eat like crap. They’re using gear to look like a natty with discipline.
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But this guy wasn’t just “using gear” for his transformation… He was using inhumane, “heart attack in ten years” type dosages.
I’d also like to extrapolate on the notion it isn’t just about “how much muscle mass you build”. It’s also about WHERE the muscle mass is built. AAS tend to build excess lean tissue around the deltoids, neck, triceps, upper chest etc (areas with a hypothetically higher concentration of AR)
You could have two guys (dude A and dude B) with similar stature/frame. Both are 5’7, 175lbs and 12% BF, one (A) is on steroids and one (B) isn’t. Chances are, male A will have a far more aesthetically pleasing appearance due to a higher level of muscle mass having been built around areas colloquially associated with “enhanced secondary sexual characteristics”.
I mean… I have trouble believing these guys are lifetime naturals; though I’d be judging based upon my admittedly poor genetic profile. It’s not hard to get around drug testing, hell even WADA will have a hell of a lot of trouble detecting TNE.
I have a buddy who I exercise with who is a lifetime natural and looks amazing. I’d fully believe he’d be able to rank competitively as a natural if he were to start competing (which is the eventual goal). I can deadlift, press and bench quite a bit more than he can, yet his arms are like twice my size (exaggeration)
Squatting 315x20 is general fitness dammit! Who told you it wasn’t, it’s general fitness for the 0.001% of the population who can pull off such a feat.
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How else are they supposed to get on the beers during the weekends and stay at 10%bf year round? Priorities brah (not serious), superficial interactions at clubs with randoms are all that is needed to live a fulfilled and satisfied life.
From looking at your avatar you look insane, like a walking muscular giant! You could totes go out to these events and have subtly passive aggressive interactions with insecure men.
“how much can you bench?”
“305”
“Well uh… back in the day I could bench 307.5”
Looks down to see a drunken 5’9 man flaring his lats; his body entailing the pinnacle of skinnyfat sexiness, be probably can’t bench more than 135.
“Noice”
Walks down to the bar, another guy comes up
“Woah brah, how much do you bench?”
The cycle repeats.
I mean… Six foot four … Jesus CHRIST. Do you play any sport on the side?
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Thanks.
Alright, I understand. But is that a valid judgment then? What if someone is intellectually gifted and partly because of this accomplished something great? Should I say, “This guy likely stole/scammed/lied his way to the top?”
I don’t think so.
Just by our eyes alone we know that IFBB pros are not natural. Why is it hard to believe that some people are natural and Amazing?
Just what is a genetically gifted natural supposed to look like and weigh? And what sort of body comp should he have?
Why is it hard to believe that Brian Whitacre, who competes in the 170s, simply someone who God/Mother Nature blessed with perfect proportions and insertions?
I read that article years ago. I believe that just like there are people who assume some heavily muscled people are on steroids because they can’t achieve what they did, the same goes for people dismissing natural status.
I’m not directing this at you.
Do people expect the genetic elite to look ordinary?! Again I ask just what should they look like for there to be no baseless assertion?
Yes, there are some non-natty scammers out there.
This is classically known as the “no true Scotsman” fallacy, and is ultimately the issue we run into in the discussion of human potential.
Whenever we observe an outlier, he must have cheated in some manner, because a non-cheater can’t achieve those kinds of results.
People have a giggle at Mike O’Hearn (no idea on spelling, I don’t follow this stuff) being a lifetime natural, because of COURSE a lifetime natural can’t look like.
Well, alright, but if he’s beyond that potential, where IS it? Because any time we bring up some dude that is supposed to have gotten there, we’re told “Nah, they must be on something: you can’t look like that naturally”
It’s the same with strength sports. Ray Williams is supposed to be a lifetime natural, but you CAN’T squat 1000lbs as a liftetime natural, so he’s cleary not one.
And I guess neither was Paul Anderson.
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Great post. That’s correct!
And while I don’t believe O’Hearn is natural, he clearly did look and perform as hardly any men can when he was. And the same goes for a comparison with other men who use drugs. They won’t look like or perform like him, let alone be able to put up with the sacrifices he makes!
I think part of this stems from the presence of such gifted people reminding others of how ordinary they are. Of course ordinariness is not bad, but it doesn’t sit well with some or many people. I’m perfectly fine in knowing there are many people who are simply better than me, physically, mentally, intellectually, whatever.
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One of my best mentors had a great quote for this.
“SOMEONE has to be the denominator”
But thankfully, so many humans perform at such low levels at ALL activities that it really doesn’t take much to be ABOVE average: it’s the elite part that’s tricky.
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