Interesting article by powerlifter Billy Mimnaugh I found on EliteFTS.com:
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/internet_icons.htm
(EDIT: Hopefully no one will be deeply offended by the article, I’m not looking for a flame war, just thought it was an interesting perspective from an “Old School” lifter)
Loved it!
awesome article. I had checked elite earlier in teh day and this weeks articles weretn up yet. Thanks for posting this
[quote] Today, we have the rise of the internet icons, guys who haven?t done a single, solitary thing in the sport actually giving opinions on training to other lifters. These are guys who never even totaled elite but own websites and set themselves up as experts and actually get interviewed for their opinions when the only thing they have learned is what some college professor told them. No practical knowledge, no trial and error, no accomplishments, and in many cases, not even an ounce of muscle mass. Who in the blue hell made these guys experts?
Lastly, ignore the internet icons. Most of them have never and will never do a damn thing in this sport. They sit at their computers with their theories about what it takes to get strong but could never muster up enough nads to actually get strong themselves.[/quote]
Very, very well put.
great article. And nice totals too!
Great article…but, do we really need to keep bringing this up? It’s going into curling in the rack territory…or, “OMG, I saw this douche at the gym doing bla bla bla…”
Loved it!
We see that all the time in the industry with internet guys who never ran elite times (like a 4.4 forty, sub 4.2 pro-agility, or a 10.5 100m) trying to do speed training.
I hate those guys. Ridiculous.
Or some internet lifting guy talking about training for soccer or basketball when he has never run for 10 minutes worth of windsprints, let alone 45 or 90 minutes…
plus never having amazing SAQ and ‘Ups’…
I hate those guys.
I know Bill Parisi ran straight down the jav track, so I guess I better throw away his Agility stuff. And, Joe Defranco has never run a better forty than me, nor jumped anywhere near as high as I do, so what light could he shed on those subjects? I will toss out his stuff also…
Let me rummage through all of my Westside stuff since I train mostly rate dominant sports… I will sell them by week’s end…
J
That being said, personal trainers need to disappear, or be relegated to training fat doctor’s wives…
Just because they passed an ACE exam doesn’t mean they have somehow moved from the “jocksniffer” over to the “athlete” category…
J
sorry guys but the best players do not necessarily make the best coaches.
The biggest best powerlifter, or BB does not make the best trainers either. Ie on juice, or endomorphic fast twitch dominance.
an ability to work with a wide spectrum of people, and motivate, or even help to create ones goals is a gift.
No no, to train anyone, even your neighbor’s 12yo daughter, you need to total elite in Power and Olympic lifting. Don’t be foolish.
[quote]Kill’Em All wrote:
sorry guys but the best players do not necessarily make the best coaches.
[/quote]
And conversley, the guys with the most diploma’s and certificates don’t necessarily make the best coaches either.
Perhaps this is why Louie Simmons has been such a successful powerlifting coach, he studies the available scientific literature AND has spent a considerable amount of time gaining practical experience that can only be gained “in the trenches”.
And yet some of the best powerlifting coaches were once top competitors themselves. Turns out they leaned quite a bit along the way getting to an advanced level.
Genetics and drugs will only get you so far, gyms are full of guys that were born with great genetics and use herculean amounts of drugs that have never accomplished shit. To become a champion in most endeavors also requires determination and knowledge.
It can’t be learned and honed as a skill? It’s a gift only, you have to be born with it?
(EDIT: By the way KILL’EM ALL is one of the best albums ever.)
[quote]IL Cazzo wrote:
No no, to train anyone, even your neighbor’s 12yo daughter, you need to total elite in Power and Olympic lifting. Don’t be foolish. [/quote]
Il~
Hehe.
Does 12yo daughter lump in the 98% of all athletes whose sport has almost no need to bench press heavy?
I love the ‘elite’ justification myself…(being very fast and springy it is always fun to turn the table when discussing training ’ athletes’ with Pl’ers.)
I blame the state schoolsand public education for such simple flaws in logic… oops, I guess I am part of the problem.
J
[quote]Jumanji wrote:
I blame the state schools and public education for such simple flaws in logic… oops, I guess I am part of the problem.
[/quote]
I would think that with a superior mind like yours you would have deduced that the article was written for aspiring powerlifters/bodybuilders and not track athletes, soccer moms, or twelve year old girls.
The jist of the article:
The internet seems to be jam packed with self proclaimed strength experts that have never trained anyone, including themselves, to any level of strength that would be considered even close to elite. Should someone seeking to become very strong take the advice of one of these pseudo experts or would they be better off seeking advice from someone that’s started off as a skinny runt but made himself into an elite powerlifter?
No where in the article does it state that track athletes, or any other type of athlete, shouldn’t listen to their experienced coaches.
The article advises to not listen to the pseudo experts that have never accomplished anything.
[quote]unearth wrote:
Jumanji wrote:
I blame the state schools and public education for such simple flaws in logic… oops, I guess I am part of the problem.
I would think that with a superior mind like yours you would have deduced that the article was written for aspiring powerlifters/bodybuilders and not track athletes, soccer moms, or twelve year old girls.
The jist of the article:
The internet seems to be jam packed with self proclaimed strength experts that have never trained anyone, including themselves, to any level of strength that would be considered even close to elite. Should someone seeking to become very strong take the advice of one of these pseudo experts or would they be better off seeking advice from someone that’s started off as a skinny runt but made himself into an elite powerlifter?
No where in the article does it state that track athletes, or any other type of athlete, shouldn’t listen to their experienced coaches.
The article advises to not listen to the pseudo experts that have never accomplished anything.[/quote]
Apparently, he read this thread a little too “fast and springy”. I blame the state schools.
ProfX~
Understood the point of the article… but your post was cute…ish.
My post obviously just extends that point to areas where PL’ers try to influence without having the requisite ‘physical experience’… namely being fast, agile, or enduranced…
Same principle… if it is true for the article’s example, it holds true across all arenas…
So, is it true?
J
[quote]Jumanji wrote:
ProfX~
Understood the point of the article… but your post was cute…ish.
My post obviously just extends that point to areas where PL’ers try to influence without having the requisite ‘physical experience’… namely being fast, agile, or enduranced…
Same principle… if it is true for the article’s example, it holds true across all arenas…
So, is it true?
J[/quote]
Regardless of your sport or goal, the newbie martial artist who has seen every Bruce Lee film and read every book is still no black belt. Spike Lee, while attending every New York basketball game is still no NBA player. The rail thin 150lb’er who read an article about compound movements and now tells everyone he comes in contact with to avoid isolation movements is still not a bodybuilder or even a serious “weight lifter”.
I am not a powerlifter so my response isn’t even to echo that particular endeavor. I do consider myself a “bodybuilder” if for no other reason than everyone responds to me as if I am one (whether through long stares or constant comments).
Therefore, I can only approach this from that angle with any legitimacy at all. There is much talk from those who really haven’t done much. It seems the belief is that talk makes up for not actually having much muscle mass, not actually being very strong at all, or not actually having the dedication to even seriously commit to training for years on end and make significant progress.
We were having a similar discussion in other sections, namely the Dave Tate thread in the “Building a Better Body” section started recently.
if someone were to ask me what makes me a “bodybuilder”, I could easily flex some muscles or even show some pictures of when I used to be very skinny (proving that I have made a good deal of progress despite the fact that I am not currently “ripped”).
However, how fast and springy are you? I’m not trying to give you a hard time (as you may very well be an accomplished athlete), but claims of “agility” and “endurance” sound great…but when it comes from someone not involved in any organized sport at all…and bodybuilding doesn’t allow us to simply SEE what they have accomplished physically (by means of how much muscle they now carry)…how much credit should we give it in terms of advice given over the internet?
If you can answer that, then you would know how many arenas that principle holds true throughout.
you guys TOTALLY missed the boat
It’s not about who’s the best trainer or who has the biggest total, it’s about paying your dues before opening your trap to give advice
Nobody missed the point of the post… my comments were pointed in a similar, yet different direction…
Good article, but I didn’t like the idea that you have to be strong yourself to coach others.
I mean after all, a coach is an outside observer. Whether he is strong or muscular won’t affect the results you get from his coaching in any way. Except maybe if you expect his methods to fail from the get go just because his total is lower than yours.
So a coach’s merit should be the success of the athletes he trains, not his own success.
ProfX~
To answer your question, I am under 6’ and can still dunk at 34 being probably 15 pounds from game shape …and honestly haven’t ‘trained’ as I would define it in over 4 years… it is all carryover from being 30 and having an amazing work rate. The first time I read a John Davies GPP article I did 16 minutes straight, and wondered what type of ‘T-Mag’ guys couldn’t…
While playing WR for an SEC team, I was one of three players who had a 38"+ vertical.
Much like Kelly Bagget, I was a ‘created’ athlete. I entered HS at 5’7" and 103lbs… yes, that figure is correct. I would have made a pretty good female athlete with a probable eating disorder. I was fairly quick, but no where near the top in my class of all white guys.
I made a run at my HS 100m record of 10.4, but never busted 10.7 or so in in HS… I was a solid low 4.4 guy but lacked natural top speed due to being slightly strength dominant. So, I jump off two feet better, and have amazing acceleration and COD ability, but not awesome top speed. This is why I could run the 100m OK, an was very good in the 400m (work rate), but got crushed in the 200m.
So, pretty fast and very springy… for a white boy. The jumps are a little misleading though as I played a ton of VB back in the day. Just a very good, strength dominant jumper. (Yes, I spent MANY hours in the squat rack, I just never called it a sport.)
But, in my time in the collegiate and HS ranks as a coach I have trained and coached many who could blow my doors off in the 40 and the 100m…
I guess I just find it funny how many guys feel they need to make a point about not “listening to the internet guru”.
My answer to that is “no shit”. But, there are 1000’s out there, and they sell more Ab Lounges and Gazelles each year than any of us make training… people are stupid. Hell, there are people here who have been ‘training’ T-Mag style for years who, if I were built like them, wouldn’t take my shirt off in public… and certainly wouldn’t wear shorts in public. Good Lord. Sack up and do some work.
So no matter how many times a trainer says to not listen to an internet dork, it is WASTED BREATH.
I guess I am just too busy training to think about it, and definitely too busy to write about it. My clients come to me because I can walk the walk, and because I get results… over 15,000 session hours over the past 10 years and a full docket with a waiting list for this spring prove that.
Plus, if a guy ever comes to me asking about how to bench press big numbers, I help them with their form, and direct them to Elitfts and the appropriate Westside video. I have never pressed more than 365, and haven’t pressed anything but DBs in years due to an impinged AC joint.
Plus, why do I care what I bench press? I am not a big FB guy, or Rugby scrum guy, or Track thrower, so like the 98% of athletes out there, a big bench press has about zero carryover to sporting success…
Since I train athletes from many different sports, I am not such a fan of the “how much do you bench club”.
My question for 98% of the athletes out there is “who gives a shit?”
In fact, that whole bench crowd whizzes me off since at my local HS they have 10 benches and 2 squat racks. I asked the local HS Football coach about an athlete’s relative strength (DB and Track guy), and the Head FB coach told me what the kid benched. Just a huge emphasis on the stuff that won’t get you fast… which is THE DIFFERENTIATOR in sports.
Notice the saying is "speed kills’, not “Bench Press Kills”.
Needless to say, the kids at that particular school aren’t exactly blazing trails to the point of attack, and do not have a sub 11 second 100m guy…
Sad really.
My point of posting is that guys like Joe Defranco don’t post elite performances in many or most of the sports out there. I am assuiming here after seeing his videos. Looked fast, but not scorching… looked like a guy who is very strong relative to his weight. But not an elite track guy.
So a low 4.4, very high 30s vertical, mid 10s or better 100m time, 4.1 or so pro agility…?
But, if I had a kid who really needed to get better for FB, and whose parents wanted the best trainer out there regardless of cash… I would tell them about Joe.
If my daughter played VB and wanted a top trainer, I would send her to Joe.
Et Cetera.
Period. No question.
So the idea that you have to post elite numbers in an event to understand it and coach it is total BS… hell, many of the Soviet Trainers were scientists… not elite athletes.
Now, do they need in the trenches experience then?
Obviously.
But, trying to stop the deluge of people who want to buy Ab Rockers isn’t awesome…
And 99% of the people who read ELITEFTS already know not to listen to an internet dork for massive bench pressing advice, so honeslty, who is the article written for?
It is a gripe, not an awesome article.
The only people who think it is an awesome article are the “yeah man, you tell’em!” crowd.
Thibideau writes awesome articles.
Notice the difference.
J