T Nation

RAW vs Single Ply Numbers Survey


Hey all, I have created a survey for my college statistics final. It will be a many weeks long process of compiling data and creating and validating a hypothesis. I have chosen to do it on RAW vs single ply #'s and hope to compile enough data from a broad spectrum of lifters to create a viable and statistically supported thesis on the Bench press and correlation between RAW and single ply numbers ( or lack thereof) I would appreciate it if you take a minute or two to answer these simple questions to assist me! Please pass it on! the more people who do it the better. Thanks !! FEMALES please do not be shy, your #'s are just as important as the guys!



I submitted mine. I'd be a little surprised if you find absolutely no correlation between raw and single ply numbers.


Posted also, not a shy female. Do hope you post results .


Just FYI if you use the rankings on powerlifting watch.com and find lifters that compete in both (of which there are several) then you have more data points. The rankings cost like 10 bucks a year but that is a steal if you are interested in this stuff. You could also assume the skill level of the top lifters are equal and then find a simple conversion from that, just brainstorming. I usually tell people once they learn how to use a shirt these days single ply will add 15-30% to their max raw bench. Good luck with your research.


Just read your survey, not to sound too judgmental but I would say it is crazy to think there is no correlation between a raw bench and a single ply bench, I'd be happy to debate that with you if you wish. But that is what research is for, let us know your results when you find them.


I'm interested in seeing the results as well.


With the feedback I have gotten thus far, my hypothesis is correct. There are some people with big raw benches in relation to their bodyweight that get out benched in their single ply lift by lifters with a smaller raw bench. BUT guess what, the lifter with the bigger single ply lift(smaller raw) ALWAYS has more years training under their belt. The data I have collected is still not a good representation of the sample group, and I still need more people to do it! I appreciated all of your interest everyone, please share this with your training partners~!


I have been a subscriber to these lists for a good while. I have chosen no to take a sample from these numbers because I do not have the lifters consent. It is my wish to have only those who want to participate to participate. I could scour the internet for hours and enter data from countless lifters, but that is not a fair representation and often times lifts are separated by a good amount of time. I have left it up to the individual to post their numbers in a truthful and consistent manner... I don't think you can assume that at all. Some of the top lifters may be separated by as much as 10-20 years of age and X amount of time training for powerlifting, two points of which are very important to my data. Thankyou for sharing your thoughts, please pass this on to your training partners and friends to assist! The more the better!




I think your definition of correlation may be different than what I am using. To me saying there is zero correlation means there is no relationship at all, but clearly this is not the case. If you know a person can bench 135 raw, you have a pretty good guess as to what they can bench in a shirt. It is true that some people get more out of a shirt, somebody might get 150 lbs or 200 lbs on the top end and somebody else may just get 30 or 50 lbs out of it on the bottom end. But that doesn't mean there is no correlation. If you know somebody benches 200 raw and the other person benches 400 raw, the 400 raw bencher will bench more in a shirt and out of a shirt all the time, at least with the current bench shirt technology.
If you are arguing there is not a perfect relationship and sometimes a lifter with a bigger bench gets out benched in single ply by somebody with a lighter bench, then you are certainly correct. But if you argue there is literally no correlation, meaning you can't predict with any accuracy what a person's single ply bench is if you know their raw bench (or vice versa) then clearly that can't be correct. In this case not only is their correlation but there actually is causation, having a high bench causes one to have a good single ply bench, although how good is the question.


I have a theory that you may see that the percentage gain with the use of a shirt will increase with the lifter's weight class. My basis for this is that the heavier lifters will have a larger size shirt which in turn will have more fabric on the chest plate. The larger amount of fabric is able to store more energy and in turn should increase the bench by that amount. Obviously the larger lifter will likely be moving more weight and need more assistance but I do not think it is a linear relationship.

At one time the IPF had published a study about the amount physical properties of the fabric used in bench shirts. I'm sure the fabrics are outdated by now but it does provide some interesting technical insights. Search the IPF site and you may still find it.


It has been a long time since I took statistics in college, but I tend to agree with this. I've always thought of a correlation being a single number that describes the relationship between two variables. Using that definition, I can see no way there isn't a positive correlation between raw and single ply bench press and total numbers. And, I'd guess it would be a fairly strong positive relationship.


Oh definitely not ANY relationship between the two at all. I wish there was a way to include the types of material, cuts of the shirts and angle yadda yadda, seems like that would give us more conclusive info on the matter. So far the results are great, lots of people are taking it. the more the better I say, a bigger sample of us all the better we will be able to interpret it. I will be sharing the results here once they are done in November... I have noticed on thing in the graphs generated so far, the lifters with a raw bench of 462-513 have the highest single ply #'s. lifters from 515-575 have smaller single ply benches the the others! Idk what to take from that, you tell me lol