I apologize for relentlessly questioning one thing after another pertaining to program designs, stuff related to physiology, etc. So,
I am going to ask just a few more questions with regards to the W4SB program and promise to never again ask anymore questions about the program that I am on now until at least 6 months from now. So, my last questions are:
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I know that on the max effort lower body day, Defranco listed for the hip extension exercise to do either Upright sled walks
Hyperextensions, Swiss ball hip extension + leg curl, or Low-cable pull-throughs. However, I don’t have any machines, benches or even a Swiss ball available to me, but are obviously required for those respective exercises that he listed on there. So, I have doing barbell deadlifts instead. Is this an okay substitute for those hip extension choices listed on there?
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Since I don’t have any machines besides a pullup bar and a Phoenix bench -connected to posts that hold a barbell- that means that I won’t be able to rotate my max effort lifts to exercises had entail the use of a machine. Is this going to be a problem for me?
nighthawk has good advice herr, and we all actuslly do have your best interests in mind.
my favorites of the bunch he listed are hip thrusts (I like to hold 1-2seconds at the top). love romanian deads and theyre kickass exercise–so yes thsts a good substitution on your part, very good. occasionally though they do lead to a little bit of burnout. I do not think you have to worry about that personally, but if you were worried I would sub. in hip thrusts–almost EVERYBODY needs more glute activation, myself included, and it helps the bottom of your squat and deadlift. it is also easy to recover from and easy on joints. dig thru the heels and hold at the top. if you have a sled or can make it, the drags are phenomenal and good conditioning.
check back in in 12 weeks–I am expecting big progress.
Also biskui, great post! that mindset is going to take you far–and I would say you could pick infinitely worse than Eric Cressey, because he was a huge influence on me and in fact on a generation of professionals. you can’t go wrong with him if you are also focusing on progressive overload at same time. good luck
Hey guys, so I have been doing the WS4SB program for over 6 months now, having made significant gains over that period of time. Here is a list of my current lifts, including on both my estimated PRs on the main lifts and assistance exercises:
PRs
- Flat Barbell Bench Press (olympic barbell): 207 lbs.
- Flat Barbell Bench Press (standard barbell): 195 lbs.
- ATG Front Squat (olympic barbell): 205 lbs.
- ATG Front Squat (standard barbell): 195 lbs.
- Conventional powerlifting style deadlift (standard barbell): 330 lbs.
Assistance exercises
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incline db press
two 45 lbs. dbs x 10/10/8
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barbell pendlay rows
130 lbs. x 5/5/5, for first upper body day of the week, and 122.5 lbs. x 7/7/7, for second upper body day of the week
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standing reverse db flyes
two 25 lbs. dbs x 11/11/11
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standing barbell OH press
70 lbs. x 10/10/8
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barbell curls
65 lbs. x 9/9/8
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lying tricep extension
70 lbs. x 11/11/11
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standing alt. db curls
two 30 lbs. dbs x 10/10/9
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standing 2-arm db french press
two 20 lbs. dbs x 11/10/10
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standing db hammer curls
two 20 lbs. dbs x 11/11/11
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barbell stiff-legged (with knees slightly bent) deadlift
185 lbs. x 15/15/11
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db long-stride lunges
two 55 lbs. dbs x 10/10/10
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planks
3 sets of approx. 2 min. 30 sec. each
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lateral bridge
3 sets on each side of approx. 2 min.
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standing db shrugs
two 55 lbs. dbs x 10/10/10
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standing pinch plate (timed set)
3 sets of holding three 10 lbs. plates in each hand for approx. 45 sec.
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swiss ball crunch
25 lbs. right behind the head x 10/10/10
Additionally, I have gained about 8lbs. of mostly muscle (I am still very defined). So what do you guys think?
Glad to hear everything’s finally falling into place. You do a lot of different lifts, but I guess that’s WS.
[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
Last week i started trying the W4SB program. Though, during these past couple of months I was back to being inconsistent with my weightlfiting workout regimen due to summer school and having a relapse of uncertainty with the way I have been weight training. i’ve actually been considering about trying out the W4SB workout as soon as I know I am ready for it. however, I am concerned that because I have been going on and off again with my weight training for a while now that I may have do another workout that involves GPP strength and conditioning for a novice weighttrainer like myself in order to be physical prepared enough for W4SB. Also, if I do try the W4SB (version II) program, then I have a few questions with regard to this particular:
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I’ve recently learned that it is best for novice weightlifters to do weightlifting exercises with the heaviest weight they can within 4-6 reps (without going to failure). So, why does DeFranco want novices to do most of the weight exercises on his template with higher reps than 5 reps if beginners are supposed to work with lower reps and heavier resistance in order to build a solid foundation of strength and technique?
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DeFranco has designed this program as a split routine for beginners, but I recall most trainers and coaches including Tony Gentilcore saying that novice weightlifters are supposed to do full body workouts. So, I am curious as to why DeFranco did not lay out a full body workout instead for beginners.
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He has lists of exercises to choose from in his upper body workout days. Except, sometimes it seem like you must choice between one isolation exercise another such as either doing something like shoulder shrugs or something else like neck flexions. Another example is him giving a list of isolation exercises for the triceps, and so while It seems good that he says that we have some options to choose from for triceps isolation, it still looks like you must choose an isolation tricep exercise. Why are such exercises actually necessary for a beginner to do?
I am not saying that Mr. DeFranco is wrong and I am sure that he knows what he’s doing, but I would like to learn exactly all his reasons for laying out this program the way it is and why he has it designed that way compared to the way a lot of coaches and trainers design programs.
[/quote]
Here: make it easy on yourself.
Week 1 Start worksets at 50% of your max. Work up in sets of 5 making 10lb jump until you come to a weight you know you won’t get for 5 reps. Stop there.
Week 2 Same thing only work up in triples.
Week 3 Same thing only work up in doubles.
This varies the intensity from week to week. It’s simple and allows you to work up to the heaviest weight you can each workout.
Do simple. Don’t over-complicate things. Keep the assistance work to a minimum to none. You’ll recover quicker. Get your diet and sleep right and you’ll see the progress you want.
Thanks for the feedback. Though, I have a concern with regard to my standing OH press strength. So far, my current lifting record for this has been 70 lbs. x 12/12/11 (failure on the last set). This more than likely means, that my 1RM for this exercise is about 100 lbs. Yet, my approx. 1RM for the flat barbell bench is approx. 207 lbs. Given that my bench press is more than twice the strength of my standing OH press I am wondering if my standing OH shoulder press strength is lagging proportionally behind my flat barbell bench press strength.
If it is, then should I back off a little on the bench press and focus more on the standing OH press or should I just work more on doing lower reps (4-6) with the standing OH press while I continue to doing what I have been doing to improve my bench press? I would appreciate it if anyone could let me know.
Are you currently meeting your goals with your current approach? If so, no changes need to be made.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
Are you currently meeting your goals with your current approach? If so, no changes need to be made.[/quote]
Actually, I now have been having trouble improving my flat barbell bench press strength. For some reason, I haven’t been able to complete 172.5 lbs on standard barbell at home or 182.5 lbs. on olympic barbell at the gym (for 5 reps across all three sets (I don’t know why I can always lift 10 lbs more on the olympic barbell). These are the results of my bench press since the past week and half:
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Last week on Tues., I could only do 172.5 lbs. on standard barbell for 4 reps across sets.
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Last week on Sat., I could do 182.5 lbs. on olympic barbell for 5 reps, but on both the 2nd and 3rd sets, I needed a spotter to help me complete the 4th and 5th reps on each of those sets.
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Yesterday, I used the standard barbell at home again. On the first I tried lifting 172.5 lbs. again, but I ended up missing the 5th rep. So, I decided for the second set to reduced the weight down to 171.5 lbs.; however, I still ended up missing the 5th rep. Aferwards, I decided to reduce to weight down to 171 lbs, but I ended up only being able to barely complete 3 reps (the weight on the 3rd rep ended up feeling too heavy for me, so I chose not to risk on missing the 4th rep.
Also, yesterday between each of the three sets, I did a 5 min. recovery period instead of a usual 3 min. recovery period, but that obviously didn’t work. In addition, I always do three to four warm-up sets before I start doing the main work sets. For example, if use the standard barbell at home to bench press with I would perform the warm-up sets like this:
1st warm-up set would be 60 lbs. for 5 reps.
2nd warm-up set would be 90 lbs. for 5 reps.
3rd warm-up set would be 110 lbs. for 5 reps.
4th warm-up set would be 140 lbs. for 5 reps.
An example on the olympic barbell at the gym would be:
1st warm-up set would be 45 lbs. for 5 reps.
2nd warm-up set would be 95 lbs. for 5 reps.
3rd warm-up set would be 135 lbs. for 5 reps.
4th warm-up set would be 155 lbs. for 5 reps.
Though, the warm-ups obvious don’t seem to help with my lifting performance on the main working sets either.
Furthermore, I have always gotten at least 7 hours of sleep if not more every night. Plus, every week I always do both incline db press and lying triceps extensions on my first upper body lift day as well as both standing OH press and standing 2-db french press on my second upper body lift day. If I do deload, then this would be the 3rd time that I have ever had to deload. In fact, I just deloaded the weight only 3 to 4 weeks ago. So, I am not sure if I either need to deload one more time, or work more on improving my overhead press strength by using 4-6 reps per set on that exercise, or if should change my program up to something that is more intermediate. I would appreciate it if anyone could let me know what I am supposed to do.
What protocol are you following that has you performing ME upper so frequently?
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
What protocol are you following that has you performing ME upper so frequently?[/quote]
Along with doing mainly WS4SB, I have been using some starting strength principles to improve both my bench and squat PRS. To be more specific, I do virtually everything that DeFranco said to do on the WS4SB program, except for a few modifications that I made to it for myself. On my max-rep upper body day, the first exercise I do is another 3x5 barbell bench press just like on my max-effort upper body days. I do the same thing with front squats. So on my second lower body day of the week, I do fronts squats as the first exercise of the exercise session just like on my-max effort lower body days. I don’t know why DeFranco how or why says that “experience has shown me that skinny bastards do NOT respond well to having a barbell on their back two times per week. It’s simply too taxing on their bodies and they canâ??t recover.” I actually made slower progress on squats doing them once a week compared to doing them twice a week. Plus, programs like Starting Strength and Stronglifts have trainees doing squats three times, so I don’t know why DeFranco said that having a barbell on their back twice is too taxing and decreases athletic performance. Unless, he was mainly talking about an athlete’s speed and explosiveness, and saying that doing 3-5RM barbell squats (either front or back squat) twice a week decreases your speed because it taxes the CNS too much, I don’t otherwise see how doing barbell squats twice per week is a problem for those who mainly want to gain muscle and strength in their legs and core. In any case, now going back to my upper body workouts, I do all the types of exercises that have been list on the max-effort upper body days; however, after doing an elbow flexor exercise, I then do lying triceps extensions. Following this triceps exercise I do standing db curls. I also do standing db curls at the end of my 2nd upper body day. So that has been the protocol that I have been following.
[quote]Bull_Scientist wrote:
Along with doing mainly WS4SB, I have been using some starting strength principles to improve both my bench and squat PRS. To be more specific, I do virtually everything that DeFranco said to do on the WS4SB program, except for a few modifications that I made to it for myself. [/quote]
I would definitely stop doing this, as it appears to not be effective. You seemed to be making better progress when you followed one program to the letter. Try that again and see how it works out.