Hi John B. - I reside in Florida, about 11/2 to 2hrs. north of Disney World. Any plans in my area ever let me know and you can come take a look at my T-MAN!
Been getting familar with the Testosterone web site too by the way. You’ve got, what appears to be no BS group of professionals. Some names on the board rang a bell for me. Seems I’ve read some of those names in a mag I use to read called Muscle Media 2000. Never have heard of Testosterone until just recently and am sorry it took this long. I even checked out your T-Vixen choices of women because I wasn’t sure what that was. My question is where are the nominee’s for the men!? I’ll gladly be first to nominate one or two.
Kandi
Roman…I must confess that I am not completely “natural,” but I am not exactly a juice hound either. Most of the gains I made were before I used anything; even then it was only for 8 weeks. I believe nutrition is the major factor regardless of what else is taken. I see so many people who never gain because their diet is not adequate and then they complain that they are “training hard” and still getting no results. The people I have trained always tell me that they “eat a lot.” Well if that were the case then they would at least gain something, fat or muscle. I had one guy whose metabolism was so high the calories he needed to consume made him puke, but still he got bigger. Training plays a big role too but you can’t gain any “weight” if you don’t eat enough.
CG…Glad to hear you actually graduated. I expect I will be a sixth year senior before I do. You should really join barbell club. Not as many women but the dungeon-like atmosphere puts you in the mood for some hardcore lifting.
Kandi…Your knowledge astounds me! Ribose is more active cardiac-wise and post-workout really is the best time to take it in regards to recovery. I can really only offer the real-world effects that I experience. At peak power, strength levels seem not to diminish as fast, which is the major benefit in my opinion. This allows for 1 or 2 more reps on my heaviest sets. I actually think that it would work better during training w/ glucose but have yet to test this theory. If I recall correctly, I believe ribose is produced rather efficiently in the body given the adequate materials. So I don’t think that a deficiency exist or at least for that long.
Hey guys I had mentioned this formula in the last forum about this but here it is again. Take a full serving of Creatine AC from metrx which has 94grams of pure glucose,10grams glutamine peptide,12.4grams of creatine and 400mg of alpha lipoic acid. Then add from protein factory around 70grams of hydrolyzed whey. Make sure to get the 520 dalton weight. Add 10-15grams of BCAA powder plus add 15-20 grams of glutamine powder and get your hands on some taurine powder and add 4grams. Myself and the people I train have been using combo’s like this for awhile now and they work great. We are going to try and bring the protein up to see if it helps. I am curious to see what would happen with a even ratio of carbs and protein. Remember though to always have a regular whey/casein combo 45-60 minutes after the post workout shake. You can use any of the good ones like protein plus from metrx or advanced protein from biotest or profusion from muscle link.
On the Ribose-C bottle it says to take 1 serving on non-training days and 2 servings on training days. Since ribose is not stored in the body, is there any point to taking it on non-training days? Also, will ribose still be effective if it is taken with aminos?
John U. can you give me any info about this
barbell club ? I cant seem to really find
anything about it from the quick search I did.
How do I join ? How good are the facilities ?
GG…Barbell Club is located at O’keiff gym, where the girls’ volley ball games are, behind the coliseum. I believe, but am not sure, that sign-up time is at 4-6 PM on Thursdays. I may be wrong about that though. It’s a first time $25 fee to join and $40 per year. They have all the equipment you’ll ever need. Dumbbells go up to 145lbs and we’ll be getting heavier ones soon. Come to think of it, I think there are only a few other people who use them anyway. We’re getting a few new benches and if I get on the committee I going to get some other equipment as well. I’ll try to find out the exact times for you.
John U. - Thanks for the report on your experience. I’ll pass it on if you don’t mind and see what we can accomplish. Not sure, hypoglycemia is an ill-fated sentence for equines.
Kandi
dietrich, I am going to try something close to what you have suggested. I have just ordered Creatine AC from netrition and matodextrin, hydro 520 and hydrolyzed casein from proteinfactory. I did not get the BCAA mix from proteinfactory, however – I will wait for people to post some more clues as to what the ratios of aminos should be before I start spending a lot of money on that stuff.
Currently I am using a mixture of 2 scoops of plain Metabolol, one scoop of Phosphagen, and about 1.5 scoops of hydro 520. I mix in some AST micronized Glutamine and take two tablets of Twin Lab’s Amino 1500 with my post-workout shake. This does not produce “drug-like” effects described in one of the articles on the site but I can’t really expect that since I am sure I don’t have the correct amino ratios. It does help me with recovery – I do not feel as plastered the next day as I did in the past. Plus, I do feel a little warmer all over my body soon after I gulp the concoction down. So, it must be doing something :).
What I am going to try next is a mix of Metabolol, Creatine AC, hydro 520, hydrolyzed casein, maltodextrin, L-Glutamine, and Amino 1500, and see what happens. It is too bad they do not have a “plain” flavor of Creatine AC – had to order orange (can’t stand grape).
Hey, guys! No one has seemed to mention the addition of 2 GRAMS OF ARGININE in a post-workout drink. In “Poliquin Principles”, the Coach states that it increases glycogen storage by 30-40%. Anyone with experience, ideas, thoughts or sources concerning the Coaches reccomendation?
This is a pretty simple equation, concerning the aminos and glutamine and their ratios, if one knows where to look. John B. provided us with his list of sources, so why not start there…
I just need a straight forward answer on this. I read all your posts and i got all mixed up.
I have an exam on Thursday and i should be studying right now, but my mind just can’t get to it before i know this because i am working out tomorrow. I hope you guys can help out.
1>. I know that you HAVE to have a pre-workout meal. My question is:
A>. When (how long before workout?)
B>. How much of the proportion of the caloric daily intake this meal should be? (In fat loss diet (like the Delta1250) and in bulking diet (like the get big diet). I mean; if you are in a fat loss diet with 2000 cals/day, how much of the 2000 have to be used for this pre-workout meal?
C>. What does it have to contain (carb,fat,protein? and in what percentage)
Note: Well, i don’t use lots of supplements, i only use whey, glutamine, multivits, falx and udo’s oil.
chris, Phosphagen is masking the taste of hydro 520 pretty well. The drink still does not taste that great but I think I am more tolerant to bad tasting things than an “average” person.
racer, yes, John B gave us references but I am not sure where to look them up. John U said that library at our school (Georgia Tech) has almost all of the references but I don’t know if I have time to hunt the articles down and read them.
I must say I am waiting for Biotest to make the post-workout formula available as soon as possible. I’d rather buy the damn thing and not worry about mixing all ingredients myself.
However, while we are at it, racer, could you please point out the one reference where you have found that equation? I just don’t feel like reading all the research papers mentioned by John B – I have plenty of Computer Graphics research papers to read, thank you :).
Jonathan…I’m going to try to help you out real quick, so you can get back to studying! Seriously, I know how frustrating all this advice coming from all different directions can be. Since you don’t have the ingredients, so to speak, that are being touted as the “goods,” I’ll just give you some straightforward advice. There is no set amount of calories or ratio of nutrients for PRE-workout meals really. Many people have different opinions and it seems to be a highly individualized thing. Some people will eat on the way to the gym, some can’t have anything within 2 hours of their workout. Some people prefer a whole food meal–balanced with some protein, carbs and fat–some prefer a liquid meal like GROW. If your main goal is fat loss, you may want to have your pre-workout meal longer before your workout and maybe without carbs. As far as post-workout, most people suggest some liquid nutrition, maybe an MRP or something. If you do go the liquid route, no need to add any flax or udo’s, as it will slow the process of glycogen replenishment down. Hope I’ve helped a little, Jonathan. Don’t fret too much, as there’s really no perfect way just yet. Keep trying different things.
Thank’s for the reply. OK, so i will just use about 10-15% of my total daily calories and go with 75%carb and 25%protein for my pre-workout meal. I usually have 1 cup of apple juice,1 tsp of glutamine and whey protein and i take this 1 hour before workout.
I am following the Delta 1250 diet right now so this week is my hypocaloric phase (mine is about 2000 cals). In hypercaloric phase, i will adjust it.
For the post, i’ll just follow the 0.8 g/kg carb and 0.4 g/kg protein. However it seems to take about 16% daily calories just on post-workout meal.
Do you agree on Charles saying that post-workout meal should consist of 30% of daily caloric intake? I read one of his article last night.
John U. - Like yourself, I too am concerned with using BCAA’s pre-meal. I agree with John B., there is absolutely no question about post-work BCAA supplementation. Although, BCAAs could greatly benefit performance by consuming them pre-meal, which studies have shown may be worthwhile in the equine athlete. Muscle breakdown and muscle wasting is a significant problem with the endurance horse and may be prevented with prerace supplementation of the BCAAs,repeating doses doses at timed intervals during event. BCAAs help modify lactate accumulation and metabolic acidosis which are commonly found in endurance horses after a race. Other common problems seen with athletic horses are external myopathies (also called Tying Up “rhabdomyolysis”), or persistently elevated muscle enzymes. Tying up refers to a syndrome of extreme muscle spasm and pain that is triggered by exercise. The urine that is excreted from a horse with this condition is brown which is colored by pigments from the damaged muscle leaking out into the blood and being cleared by the kidneys. This is a real energy crisis because the muscle cells do not have enough energy to relax and gets trapped in a contracted state. It’s mostly common in the athletic horse and not your everyday pasture potatoe. BCAAs very well may contribute to their relief, by eliminating the pain when the amount of free lactic acid that is seen is reduced, as well as a decrease in blood enzymes that signal muscle damage.
My logic would be to absolutely supply the BCAAs post-meal. Pre-meal is up to you. If your not gaining then add the BCAAs pre-meal which may offer you the gains you want. Extensive breakdown of muscle stores of BCAAs will occur with each bout of exercise. If you supply them in the correct amounts at the correct times, the muscle will take up the increased BCAAs in the blood and use them instead of the preserved stores. So, the muscle will take what it needs from the blood if the supplies are high enough, sparing muscle from degredation.
Kandi
I’ll tell you the amount of BCAA that we are using is working great and to tell you the truth this drug like affect is nothing new to us. I don’t think there needs to be an exact ratio but I could be wrong. Maybe the new drink when it comes out will work better than my combo. As for the comment on Arginine I agree and we are going to start adding it this week. As for the combo where one of you is combining the metabolol and the maltodextin its a waste of time. Stick with the full dose of metrx creatine ac. Trust me you don’t need anymore than the 94 grams of glucose when it comes to the carb intake. Also the metabolol is probably slowing down or reducing the insulin spike you are trying to achieve. Seriously try the combo I recommended in an earlier post and get back to me in a few weeks.
Kandi, you’re blowin me away. I think you’re faking us all out and are really a physiologist at some high powered university. Anyway, good info. You’re a tree of knowledge. I think that ribose for your purposes is a bit risky. Until more research is done to actually see what’s going on with it, you should hold off (as you said). Actually Im doing my dissertation on skeletal muscle ATP turnover and levels using MRS. Over the course of my 5 experiments Ill be testing different training variables and supplements and their impact. Ill keep you posted. You know, you never told us what kind of training your horse does. That could make a big difference in the recommendations…
To John U, Ive been playing with your pre and during recommendations to see how I feel on them rather than hypothesizing about them. Ill keep you posted as to the results. Ive always been a big believer that pw was the most important thing. But any edge to get me to 210 will be great (Im 5’8" at about 200 right now at about 5-6%). Il give your drinks a shot and see how they affect my training.
Kandi…What you are describing is similar to the problems of marathon runners. Have you tried anything to buffer the blood? I’ve tried sodium bicarbonate with a little success but have heard that potassium citrate works wonders at the same dosage, 0.3g/kg of bodyweight.
dietrich. so thats 70gms of whey powder which at 74% protein gives you just over 50gms of protein right? i dont have the metrx creatine but have lots of maltodextrin and dextrose and can use koolaid or crystal light to flavour. will this be drinkable with the hydrolyzed whey do you think? if not how i can get it in there?
You should really join barbell club. Not as many women but the dungeon-like atmosphere puts you in the mood for some hardcore lifting.